Singapore Airlines to retire its first A380 (reg. 9V-SKA) and store it in France.

Comhrá

Does anything age as quickly as an airliner? Seems such a short time since SIA introduced the amazing A380.

Now the oldest pair are being retired and possibly scrapped if no buyer is found.


http://www.airlive.net/singapore-airlines-to-retire-its-first-a380-reg-9v-ska-and-store-it-in-france-next-week/

Harry Palmr

Planes last for decades if they are wanted in the market

john boye

Those first sia A380s have a lot of performance penalties (built overweight etc.) and weren't expected to have any takers on the second-hand market.

Doniekp

Will one end up on a boat heading to Enniscrone, Co Sligo.

ozzy jr

I'm sure it was returned to the lease holder the day the lease was up, in October, 10 years to the day since it's first flight. The paint has already been removed.

Comhrá

Doniekp wrote: »

Will one end up on a boat heading to Enniscrone, Co Sligo.

Jeez, don't be giving him ideas :eek:

Harry Palmr

Could be an interesting hotel concept.

robyntmorton

Really you could fit a small hotel inside it, so it could be a goer!

Doniekp

Leo will house the homeless in it...

Marcusm

I’ll bet it’s a bit of a conundrum for Airbus. Probably worth more parted out by the lessor but might be seen as a knock to Airbus’s pride if the first 2 commercial service birds are retired and “scrapped” after 10 years rather than flown to their eventual home as museum pieces. No doubt they’ll want to try and keep them commercial.

L1011

The first few were basically hand-wired due to the design cockup; the ongoing MX costs are huge versus series production birds.

Some of the later SQ birds are going to HiFly for charter work despite many people being convinced they were unleasable due to being heavy, having the wing crack rework done etc etc.

If they were closer to current production standard IAG would have jumped at them - it has been repeatedly said they could use more 380s but not at new prices; and they only want Rollers.

January

And yet BA are still flying their clapped out 747's and plan to until at least 2024... madness.

kona

January wrote: »

And yet BA are still flying their clapped out 747's and plan to until at least 2024... madness.

These 2 A380s are bogeys to be fair. The BA 747 are good aircraft which are probably profitable to run still.

billy few mates

At ten years old they'll likely be due their first undercarriage replacement. Might be worth parking them up to shop the landing for overhaul and rent them out as loaner sets to other operators who will also have L/G replacements coming up. Far better and cheaper to temporarily install a loan set and have the original set overhauled and reinstalled than having to replace them with a new set as their ain't going to be any second hand sets on the market for exchange.

January

kona wrote: »

These 2 A380s are bogeys to be fair. The BA 747 are good aircraft which are probably profitable to run still.

Ah no tbf I know the 747's are still good to fly. Just wish they'd update the cabins/IFE on the really really old ones. Although I know one or two are supposed to retire next month.

L1011

January wrote: »

And yet BA are still flying their clapped out 747's and plan to until at least 2024... madness.

SIA have a hard age limit. BA operate craft until they aren't financially viable anymore. Two totally different approaches. BA are like the Delta of Europe in some ways, bar the buying second hand craft bit.

billy few mates

L1011 wrote: »

SIA have a hard age limit. BA operate craft until they aren't financially viable anymore. Two totally different approaches. BA are like the Delta of Europe in some ways, bar the buying second hand craft bit.

BA do buy second hand aircraft...

L1011

billy few mates wrote: »

BA do buy second hand aircraft...

Not to the voracious extent that Delta do, though. The final replacements for the Gatwick shorthaul fleet were second hand but Delta were buying every late DC9 derivative going at one stage, they have every single MD90 built now I believe.

Doltanian

Malaysian Airlines are also parking all 6 of their A380's from next March and transferring them to some sort of Hajj Charter operation to fly Muslim pilgrims to Saudi Arabia for pilgrimage. I wonder would Emirates be interested in second hand A380's to compliment their massive fleet already.

L1011

Doltanian wrote: »

Malaysian Airlines are also parking all 6 of their A380's from next March and transferring them to some sort of Hajj Charter operation to fly Muslim pilgrims to Saudi Arabia for pilgrimage. I wonder would Emirates be interested in second hand A380's to compliment their massive fleet already.

Emirates have a similar new in, retire at a hard age limit rule to Singapore. Malaysia aren't willing to sell theirs or at least not cheap; BA apparently approached.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Shedite27

What were the problems with the first few off the production line?

L1011

Shedite27 wrote: »

What were the problems with the first few off the production line?

There was a severe design error (caused during upgrading the actual design software) meaning all the wiring was the wrong length; so they ended up being wired by hand. This makes maintenance more complicated for the rest of their service life.

A much larger amount of early ones have the wing crack retrofit which adds a little weight over a factory fixed version.

Stovepipe

Scrapping aircraft before their notional end of life is not new; Frontier and BA scrapped A320s at the age of fifteen, as they had passed that point in their lives when it was financially justifiable to reduce them to parts; engines, main gear, avionics and all the many valves in the hydraulic and fuel systems, as well as the APU and air con systems, are worth more than the hull, which is essentially beer can fodder. Even interiors can get stripped out and refitted; seat bases, galleys, overhead bins, PSUs, interior doors and all the small items like bins and boxes. Manufacturers charge comedy money for interior cabin parts, especially seats.

circular flexing

January wrote: »

Ah no tbf I know the 747's are still good to fly. Just wish they'd update the cabins/IFE on the really really old ones. Although I know one or two are supposed to retire next month.

They did update the cabins on some the 747s, but they only operate on routes with high J loadings e.g. LHR <-> JFK

Any Double !

Just had the pleasure of traveling on 2 different 747’s 400’s of the KLM fleet from Amsterdam to Curacao. The outward one was the “Bangkok” 28yrs old & the other “Hongkong” aged 27. Both in good nick save cabin crew having to reboot the entertainment system as some screens were frozen. Lotta leg room in economy and room to walk around and more importantly to lean in if standing to allow trolleys pass. I’ll miss that. Don’t know how space is in the 380 but hope to travel in an AF one in February. I noticed being close to the Airport on the island a TUI/Fly 787 leaving same route each day took a good while longer to complete same trip. Still a lotta power in the old Lady’s 4 engines. KLM say they’ll probably run them to 2020. Once they’re due an expensive D overhaul they’ll probably park them for scrap one after the other. I believe they’ve long since paid for themselves so are pure profit now even allowing for their thirst. I wonder how many BA Jumbo’s are near reaching their D’s ?

Stovepipe

on large jets like that, cargo alone will pay for the flight, making the ticket prices the pure profit.

billy few mates

https://airlinerwatch.com/leasing-company-plans-to-operate-its-own-a380-airline/

Tenger

I cant see that doing too well.

J.pilkington

The recent airfrance engine issue (60 days and counting parked up in a remote airport) surely scares the crap out of current operators and only makes it more remote that there will be any new operators ordering.

A sad state of affairs..

billy few mates

billy few mates wrote: »

https://airlinerwatch.com/leasing-company-plans-to-operate-its-own-a380-airline/

Tenger wrote: »

I cant see that doing too well.

Where would you even start ....?

duskyjoe

When Alan Joyce of Qantas says he can operate two 787s line a stern cheaper than a single A380......then that was the death knell for me. The A380s are Goliath’s but flexible they are not. Example when the AF 380 diverted to YYR with its engine separating , YYR had no proper setups for the pax to disembark.....likewise diverting the 380 is a giant headache re it’s size and accessibility to most airports. This can turn very nasty in bad weather ......example of this was a LH 380 too-ing and fro-ing between MIA and MCO re bad weather and ran dangerously close to landing on fumes. I see a380 production coming to an end sooner than later when the options are there re the next generation mighty twins in the 777s / 787s/ 350s/330s who are meager on fuel, big on capacity, with the ability to flip them over on the 2nd hand market unlike the the 380.

PukkaStukka

When was the last time an order for a new A380 was made?

L1011

PukkaStukka wrote: »

When was the last time an order for a new A380 was made?

2016 - ANA, 3 under duress and Emirates with a massive top-up order of... 2.

circular flexing

L1011 wrote: »

2016 - ANA, 3 under duress and Emirates with a massive top-up order of... 2.

Was Emirates a new order or just converting options?

ozzy jr

circular flexing wrote: »

Was Emirates a new order or just converting options?

They took the two Skymark planes that were built.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

john boye

EK took them in 2-class config, 600 plus seats in them! They have a few in this layout now.

L1011

They were able to sell them, which is more than Boeing have managed with the Transaero 747-8i builds

Doltanian

L1011 wrote: »

They were able to sell them, which is more than Boeing have managed with the Transaero 747-8i builds

Isn't Trump getting them as the new Air Force one?

L1011

Doltanian wrote: »

Isn't Trump getting them as the new Air Force one?

Was rumoured months ago, not confirmed - Wikipedia are using a single rumour to add to their tables. USAF would absolutely prefer a new build; its Trump who is trying to force through using the cheaper option. Trump may not be there in 14 months time (impeachment if the Democrats do well in the mid terms) so there's good reason to hold off. The UPS order last year will keep the line open long enough.

circular flexing

L1011 wrote: »

They were able to sell them, which is more than Boeing have managed with the Transaero 747-8i builds

I guess the point is that they weren't new orders, just existing orders.

L1011

circular flexing wrote: »

I guess the point is that they weren't new orders, just existing orders.

It was definitely a new order; it was just for cheaper pre-built craft. The Skymark order had already been considered as off the books so they were net new also.

J.pilkington

Confirmation that at least one of these will be dismantled.


https://airlinerwatch.com/two-ex-sia-a380-to-be-dismantled-for-spare-parts-market/

The One Doctor

J.pilkington wrote: »

Confirmation that at least one of these will be dismantled.


https://airlinerwatch.com/two-ex-sia-a380-to-be-dismantled-for-spare-parts-market/

Rare for Airbus (or any airframe manufacturer) to have made such a terrible decision to design and build an aircraft. Even Concorde (yes, yes, I know) was done far more cheaply and survived much longer.*

*Comparison is apples and bananas, I know.

trellheim

Slot controlled airports are not going away ; this was one of the drivers for the A380

Irish Steve

The first few 380's were not "standard", there were/are significant maintenance issues due to the non standard wiring problems that beset the first batch, and I can't remember where I saw it, I think there were also problems with them being overweight, and performance/payload/range limited as a result.

There were some structural cracking issues with wing ribs that have been addressed, but they could mean significant maintenance costs to rectify on the early ones due to the other issues mentioned, if they had not been retrofitted.

Phil.x

Could Singapore airlines receive some sort of compensation as they could argue their not fit for purpose?

ozzy jr

Phil.x wrote: »

Could Singapore airlines receive some sort of compensation as they could argue their not fit for purpose?

Singapore only leased the planes.

L1011

The lessors would have received something for delivery delays and the maintenance cost increases, I think there may have been a slightly performance miss compared to spec also. Happens with virtually every new aircraft introduced

After the first few unsellable 787s there were a large number of mostly to spec ones rejected outright by the original purchasers which took years to sell on; at massive discounts.

The 380 and 787 will both almost definitely never turn a profit for the vendors. Both are considered important in moving technology forward for the vendors though.

Stovepipe

you might see a 787 as a freighter sometime, just to keep the airframe running to generate an income to justify it's cost.