Building for longevity

The_B_Man · 06-11-2017 12:45pm #1

Hi,

Looking to replace my parents current PC (Email, Facebook, browsing, MS Word etc).

Current specs
=========
Motherboard: MSI MS-7367 (K9AGM3-FIH)
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual core 4000+ (Brisbane) Socket AM2 (940)
IGP: ATI Radeon X1250 (RS690)
PSU: XFX 450W Core Edition 80+ Bronze
SSD: Samsung Evo 250GB SSD
RAM: 4 x 1GB DDR2 PC2-6400 (400MHz) - 2 x corsair, 2 x Team Elite

I can reuse a lot of this stuff, and the monitor/keyboard/mouse.

This PC has done them 10 years or so, so I'll be looking at more of the same. So getting an overpowered one now that they'll "grow into".

So basically I need a new motherboard, and CPU. AFAIK, the case is mini ATX.
If the CPU doesn't have IGP, then I'll need a modest GPU.

I've been split between going AMD or Intel.

Starting with AMD. I've looked into a lot of motherboards:

Possible motherboards:

ASRock AB350M-HDV           - &#163;63.15 (2xUSB3.0)
MSI B350M GAMING PRO        - &#163;74.90 (4xUSB3.0)
MSI B350M MORTAR            - &#163;88.99 (3xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
GIGABYTE GA-AB350M-Gaming 3 - &#163;77.99 (2xUSB3.1, 4xUSB2.0)
Asrock AB350 Pro4           - &#163;85.89 (5xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
ASRock AB350M Pro4          - &#163;71.24 (5xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
ASRock AB350 Gaming K4      - &#163;89.76 (5xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
ASUS Prime B350-Plus        - &#163;96.98 (2xUSB3.1, 4xUSB3.0)
MSI B350 TOMAHAWK           - &#163;94.98 (3xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)

These all seems very "samey". Obviously they're the same chipset, but its the added features I'm looking at, like USB3.1 Gen2, with the possibility of Type-C connectors. None actually seems to have the Gen2 USB3.1.
Is it actually out yet, or am I missing something? Am I putting too much focus on Gen2 3.1?

Possible CPUs:

AMD Ryzen 3 1200  - &#163;92.54  (6803  - PassMark) - 65W
AMD Ryzen 3 1300X - &#163;122.82 (7456  - PassMark) - 65W
AMD Ryzen 5 1500X - &#163;158.99 (10476 - PassMark) - 65W

So I had a look at these to match with the AMD Mobos above. I think in terms of price for performance, the 1500X is the best. Was also looking at the 1600 as well, and wondering if it was worth the extra money.

I then decided to see what was on the Intel side:

Possible Motherboards:

Asus Prime H270-Pro    - &#163;99.25
ASUS Prime B250M-A     - &#163;67.05
GIGABYTE GA-B250M-DS3H - &#163;61.00

Then my budget went awry:

Possible CPUs:

Intel Pentium G4560 - &#163;88.91  (4928 - PassMark) - 54W
Intel Core i5-7500  - &#163;161.00 (8102 - PassMark) - 65W

I was looking at a budget Pentium option but in comparison with the AMDs, there's no value there. Even with the i5, on a similar price point, the AMD performs better.
HOWEVER, the Intel's comes with Integrated graphics, so its a false economy. I'd have to go and buy a graphics card, which would swallow any saving on the AMDs.

So now I'm stuck again. I reckon the IGP would be enough for them. And I suppose if I went with Intel, I could have a crack at a hackintosh down the line. But the Intel's are more likely to show their age faster than the AMDs with their superior PassMark scores per price.

So firstly, do I go with AMD? If so, then what GPU?
Or do I go Intel, and not worry about GPU, but then sacrifice some performance?

Is there a better option?

Lu Tze · 06-11-2017 12:52pm

The_B_Man wrote: »
Hi,

Looking to replace my parents current PC (Email, Facebook, browsing, MS Word etc).

Current specs
=========
Motherboard: MSI MS-7367 (K9AGM3-FIH)
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual core 4000+ (Brisbane) Socket AM2 (940)
IGP: ATI Radeon X1250 (RS690)
PSU: XFX 450W Core Edition 80+ Bronze
SSD: Samsung Evo 250GB SSD
RAM: 4 x 1GB DDR2 PC2-6400 (400MHz) - 2 x corsair, 2 x Team Elite

I can reuse a lot of this stuff, and the monitor/keyboard/mouse.

This PC has done them 10 years or so, so I'll be looking at more of the same. So getting an overpowered one now that they'll "grow into".

So basically I need a new motherboard, and CPU. AFAIK, the case is mini ATX.
If the CPU doesn't have IGP, then I'll need a modest GPU.

I've been split between going AMD or Intel.

Starting with AMD. I've looked into a lot of motherboards:

Possible motherboards:
ASRock AB350M-HDV           - &#163;63.15 (2xUSB3.0)
MSI B350M GAMING PRO        - &#163;74.90 (4xUSB3.0)
MSI B350M MORTAR            - &#163;88.99 (3xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
GIGABYTE GA-AB350M-Gaming 3 - &#163;77.99 (2xUSB3.1, 4xUSB2.0)
Asrock AB350 Pro4           - &#163;85.89 (5xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
ASRock AB350M Pro4          - &#163;71.24 (5xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
ASRock AB350 Gaming K4      - &#163;89.76 (5xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
ASUS Prime B350-Plus        - &#163;96.98 (2xUSB3.1, 4xUSB3.0)
MSI B350 TOMAHAWK           - &#163;94.98 (3xUSB3.0, 1xType-C)
These all seems very "samey". Obviously they're the same chipset, but its the added features I'm looking at, like USB3.1 Gen2, with the possibility of Type-C connectors. None actually seems to have the Gen2 USB3.1.
Is it actually out yet, or am I missing something? Am I putting too much focus on Gen2 3.1?

Possible CPUs:
AMD Ryzen 3 1200  - &#163;92.54  (6803  - PassMark) - 65W
AMD Ryzen 3 1300X - &#163;122.82 (7456  - PassMark) - 65W
AMD Ryzen 5 1500X - &#163;158.99 (10476 - PassMark) - 65W
So I had a look at these to match with the AMD Mobos above. I think in terms of price for performance, the 1500X is the best. Was also looking at the 1600 as well, and wondering if it was worth the extra money.

I then decided to see what was on the Intel side:

Possible Motherboards:
Asus Prime H270-Pro    - &#163;99.25
ASUS Prime B250M-A     - &#163;67.05
GIGABYTE GA-B250M-DS3H - &#163;61.00
Then my budget went awry:

Possible CPUs:
Intel Pentium G4560 - &#163;88.91  (4928 - PassMark) - 54W
Intel Core i5-7500  - &#163;161.00 (8102 - PassMark) - 65W
I was looking at a budget Pentium option but in comparison with the AMDs, there's no value there. Even with the i5, on a similar price point, the AMD performs better.
HOWEVER, the Intel's comes with Integrated graphics, so its a false economy. I'd have to go and buy a graphics card, which would swallow any saving on the AMDs.

So now I'm stuck again. I reckon the IGP would be enough for them. And I suppose if I went with Intel, I could have a crack at a hackintosh down the line. But the Intel's are more likely to show their age faster than the AMDs with their superior PassMark scores per price.

So firstly, do I go with AMD? If so, then what GPU?
Or do I go Intel, and not worry about GPU, but then sacrifice some performance?

Is there a better option?

You will need ram as well. And your PSU must be more than 10 years old, I would consider replacing that also

The_B_Man · 06-11-2017 1:12pm

No the PSU is only a year old. The old one packed so I had to replace it.

As for RAM, sure I can get that after, once I know what CPU/MOBO combo I'm getting.

Lu Tze · 06-11-2017 2:05pm

The_B_Man wrote: »

No the PSU is only a year old. The old one packed so I had to replace it.

As for RAM, sure I can get that after, once I know what CPU/MOBO combo I'm getting.

In that case I think you are better off with a quad core ryzen build, and you could always pick up a second hand graphics card for €20. If you can hang for a while, cheaper Intel motherboards will be released at some stage putting the new quad core i3s on the table without the need for a very expensive motherboard, and AMD are releasing ryzen chips with built in graphics.

Not sure when these are scheduled for release however

K.O.Kiki · 06-11-2017 5:39pm

I wouldn't worry too much about USB 3.1.
If you find you need it, just install a cheap PCI-e card with the connectors.
=====
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (£110.00 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI - B350M BAZOOKA Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£71.98 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: G.Skill - NT Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (£56.31 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital - Blue 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive (£55.99 @ Aria PC)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GT 1030 2GB 2GH OC Video Card (£68.99 @ Novatech)
Other: XFX 450W Core Edition 80+ Bronze (Purchased)
Other: Samsung Evo 250GB SSD (Purchased)
Total: £363.27
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-11-06 18:00 GMT+0000

Ryzen 5-1400 is fine for general use for the foreseeable future.
It's 4core/8thread like the 1500X, just with less L3 cache (which won't matter one bit).

If you think your parents might game on it, GTX 1050/Ti.

The_B_Man · 06-11-2017 11:35pm

lol not a hope of either of them gaming!

So it seems the general consensus is to go for AMD this generation.
Makes sense, given the PassMark scores on the CPUs within similar price range of the Intels.

Is there anything else I need to look out for? How can I tell if my PSU has the correct connection to power this board. I assume it does but just want to see it in writing somewhere on the spec.

And finally, how do I get rid of my old motherboard/CPU/RAM? There's the bones of a PC there. Probably too much hassle to sell. Maybe it could be upgraded with the fastest CPU for that mobo and used as a backup. Is there any way I can find out the fast CPU supported by it?

Thanks.

K.O.Kiki · 07-11-2017 3:49am

All modern PSUs conform to the ATX standard.
And the low-end GPUs (GT 1030, GTX 1050) don't need a power connection anyway; they get all their power from the motherboard.

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-MSI/K9AGM3-F_(MS-7367).html
Best CPU for that motherboard is a phenom 9150e/9350e unless you also upgrade the cooler.

TerrorFirmer · 07-11-2017 8:09am

His parents would definitely not need those specs, you can save a good chunk by switching to a Ryzen 1200, A320M motherboard (unless you think you parents plan turning their hand to overclocking) and a basic €30 video card like the GT710 or GT720. Won't hardware decode X265 like the GT1030 but again I doubt that's of concern to your parents (and obviously the CPU will decode it just fine anyway if the need arises).

The_B_Man · 07-11-2017 12:18pm

Ye i know the specs might be overkill but I'm building for longevity.
Windows will move on. MS Office will move on. Chrome will move on, and YouTube/Facebook will move on (current PC struggles with 720p video, let alone 4k).

When they do, I'll have to upgrade. Or else overspend now, and not have to bother upgrading for ten years!
The benefit being that little things like Word will open that little bit quicker so it'll just be a nicer experience all round.
Case in point. I bought my laptop abut 5 years ago with an i7-3820QM, and an SSD and its still flying along. Whereas my brother basically buys a cheap laptop every 12-18 months. His every day experience would be slower than mine and he's spent more over the years than me. So that's basically my reasoning.

Besides, I'm not stuck for cash at the moment so can afford to get higher specs. And I'd rather pay the extra so I don't get phone calls saying "The computers gone slow..." etc. It also opens options up further down the line to use it as a media hub, as you alluded to when mentioning transcoding.

I think I'll go with a Ryzen 5 1400 at least. So at least thats cleared up. All the mobos seem the same so I'm nearly as well picking one at random.
Also, good choice with the GT 1030. The low-profile fanless option seems best, as it'll be quieter, and hopefully use less power. Thanks!

K.O.Kiki · 07-11-2017 12:27pm

I still suggest the regular size fanless, extra surface area helps cooling.

The_B_Man · 07-11-2017 8:49pm

Ye I'll go with the regular size one, so.

I'm leaning towards the GIGABYTE GA-AB350-Gaming 3, as it has all the features I want.
I've just found the MSI B350 GAMING PRO CARBON however, which has an extra USB 3.1 port or two, as well as a DisplayPort....

Am I safe to ignore Display Port? Or am I gonna be kicking myself next year when DisplayPorts are all the rage?? TBH the current monitor will probably last a good few years. I'd imagine the one that replaces it will have HDMI anyway.

K.O.Kiki · 08-11-2017 4:31am

You won't be using the motherboard's DisplayPort unless you also have a CPU with an onboard iGPU.

The_B_Man · 08-11-2017 12:33pm

Oh ye, of course. Makes sense!

I'm looking at RAM now. I see some DDR4 RAM there that says its for the Intel Platform. I assume that doesn't matter and it'll be interchangeable between Intel and AMD, as its standard DDR4?

Also, I thought I was great looking at the prices on newegg and thinkin they were dirt cheap, and have just seen they add a shedload of import duty on the price! That's added another hundred (from €400 to €570 with shipping!!)! Surely there must be cheaper places to buy this stuff? It's €490 on Amazon + parcel motel. I had me heart set on a the pre-duty newegg prices!! lol

K.O.Kiki · 09-11-2017 12:08am

All DDR4 is equal, just make sure you're buying DIMM kits (SO-DIMM is for laptops).

Buy your computer parts in EU; not worth the hassle importing from outside.
We used to buy from Germany for better prices; now we advise to buy from UK to take advantage of the weak Pound.

The_B_Man · 09-11-2017 5:16pm

Cool. Looks like Aria is cheapest £400 delivered.
Doesn't have the passive cooled GT 1030 though so i might have to just get that from Amazon instead.

Building for longevity

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