Occupational Injury??

Lappies81

Hi
I hope someone can give me some advice, it's a bit complicated and long so thanks for reading.

I work for an Airline and regularly work flights which require me to stay in another country for at least one night. In this case I worked the flight to USA and was transported to a hotel where I stayed for the night before being transported back to the airport the next day to operate the flight home.

While I was in USA I had an accident which ended up with me in the ER with two fractured front teeth and a facial contusion.

I did not have to pay for any medical care I received while I was in USA however now that I am home, I have been told in no uncertain terms that this injury will not be classified as occupational and consequentially I will have to pay for further medical/dental treatment myself. I have been told that the company insurance only covers medical costs when I am outside my home base due to work, but as I wasn't technically performing work duties, I am on my own when I return home.

My dentist was shocked when I told her this. My dental work will cost €5500.

There have been a few cases over the years when similar situations have occurred and the relevant parties were left with no choice but to hire solicitors to have their damages covered.

Although this seems to be common practise within the company, the policy is not widely known by the vulnerable employees who only realise the situation once they are in it.

I, personally, cannot fathom how a company of this nature operates this way with such a large number of employees travelling away from home every day/month/year, and seemingly left in no mans land if something happens off the airplane.

While we are insured for costs outside of the country, we are essentially left uninsured for long term medical issues directly relating to any such incident while abroad.

I am really hoping that someone can share my dismay or lead me in the right direction.

Is there anything I can put to them other than legal action.

I am going to go to citizens information tomorrow to get some information. Am I driving myself crazy over nothing? Should I just cut my losses and shoulder the expense?

Any input would be a massive help. TIA

alibab

But you did not injure yourself in the course of your work therefore this is not a occupational injury . You injured yourself on your own time . The company covered the American medical costs in fairness to them but if you had the same injury at home and got same injury would still cost the same . You do not say how you got the injury if for example it was a car accident then you should be going after the other person for costs if they were in the wrong .

Lappies81

Hi thanks for reply. Yes I have been trying to rationalise this to myself. I was not technically working at the time. So it's not occupational in the traditional sense.
The accident did not involve anyone else. I tripped and fell. I have spoken to my husband about this a lot. He's resigned to accept the cost and move on. However it's not something we can easily afford.

The precedent has been set by past cases whose costs were covered after they went the solicitor route and that's what each individual case is forced to do.

I'm really trying to make peace with this as an accident but I can't help feeling hard done by

And where does that leave me and everyone else in the grand scheme of things? I am essentially uninsured then when I go abroad. Will normal travel insurance cover me as I am going for work reasons. And should I have to cover the cost of that myself.

Thanks again.

dev100

It's a tricky one . If you had of injured yourself at work, you then should be covered , when you are in another country on layover are you technically still working or on a day off you would need to check your contract ?

Let's say for example you are on layover whilst at home and you tripped and hurt yourself whilst out shopping or walking the dog. would you pay the bill yourself or expect your employer to pay out ?

If it were me check your contract and I'd also get a few quotes for work to be done on your teeth . Dental work is crazy money here , I'd take a spin up the north for a quote also.

Lappies81

dev100 wrote: »

It's a tricky one . If you had of injured yourself at work, you then should be covered , when you are in another country on layover are you technically still working or on a day off you would need to check your contract ?

Let's say for example you are on layover whilst at home and you tripped and hurt yourself whilst out shopping or walking the dog. would you pay the bill yourself or expect your employer to pay out ?

If it were me check your contract and I'd also get a few quotes for work to be done on your teeth . Dental work is crazy money here , I'd take a spin up the north for a quote also.

The day I returned home a notice was issued company wide reminding us that we remain "on duty" while on layovers. So they want us to remain in work mode even outside of work but will not afford us the same privileges.

If this had happened while I was at home or on a day off, there would be no question of who would foot the bill.. me of course.

However I was in a different country due to work requirements, even though I do acknowledge I was not performing work duties. That's why this is so confusing.

Let's say you have to go to America for work. You get on the flight, you get off the flight and you go to work. You finish work and go to your accommodation. You fall and hurt yourself on the way. Are you insured by work for that injury? Even though you weren't performing work duties?
Accidents happen. That's why insurance exists.
I am obviously insured for medical costs over there, but it's the grey area in between that has me beat. The company will not be out of pocket if they have the correct insurance. It's as if they have third party, not fully comp if I can make that comparison and that's no good to me.

I need to know what protection my employer is legally obliged to provide to me in a complicated situation like this, And where the shortfalls are so that I can beat protect myself in future.

Thanks for the input I'm looking for all different perspectives to make sense of this.

Batgurl

It will likely come down to whether the company could have reasonably foreseen and prevented your injury.

Let’s assume they acknowledge that you were on duty while the accident occurred, you will then need to prove that they were somehow negligent in causing your accident.

So what were the details of your fall? Was is due to exhaustion/jet lag from the flight? Or due to clumsiness/alcohol. Was there a loose carpet in the hotel they put you in? Or were you rushing for your return flight because the taxi they ordered you was late? These things will likely all affect culpability.

Lappies81

Batgurl wrote: »

It will likely come down to whether the company could have reasonably foreseen and prevented your injury.

Let’s assume they acknowledge that you were on duty while the accident occurred, you will then need to prove that they were somehow negligent in causing your accident.

So what were the details of your fall? Was is due to exhaustion/jet lag from the flight? Or due to clumsiness/alcohol. Was there a loose carpet in the hotel they put you in? Or were you rushing for your return flight because the taxi they ordered you was late? These things will likely all affect culpability.

Thanks that's a very practical way of looking at it. I can apply this to all scenarios and come up with an impartial opinion. I am level headed most of the time but this has really affected me.. and it's compounded by the opinions of all of my colleagues who are baffled that I have to cover my own expenses in this situation,

But in your opinion, as you are completely impartial.. do you think it's reasonable for an airline not to offer some kind of insurance/cover to employees who travel in these circumstances..comparable to travel insurance but in a business sense? I'm honestly looking for your opinion.

I am now painfully aware that if I am unlucky enough to get injured again while away, and not actively on duty I have no fall back plan.
That brings me back to the whole travel insurance for work thing. It's a disgrace that the company can wash their hands of you once your home and not at least offer a subsidised plan to crew, or at the very least ensure all crew of aware if the level of cover that's provided in these situations. There is no transparency and therefore no opportunity to protect ourselves.
I am currently seeking a copy of our full terms and conditions which seems to be akin to finding the holy grail.

cnoc

Can you answer what Batgurl asked?

"So what were the details of your fall? Was is due to exhaustion/jet lag from the flight? Or due to clumsiness/alcohol. Was there a loose carpet in the hotel they put you in? Or were you rushing for your return flight because the taxi they ordered you was late? These things will likely all affect culpability".

Batgurl

You could look at it another way.

If you had the accident in Ireland between shifts, you’d rely on private health insurance to cover an accident. Does your company cover that? If not then it’s probably unfair to expect them to cover it.

If they offer to subsidise a policy and you didn’t get it, then that’s on you. But they are also under no obligation to offer one.

As an aside, if you have private health insurance, will that not cover you for treatment once you’re home?

Lappies81

Batgurl wrote: »

You could look at it another way.

If you had the accident in Ireland between shifts, you’d rely on private health insurance to cover an accident. Does your company cover that? If not then it’s probably unfair to expect them to cover it.

If they offer to subsidise a policy and you didn’t get it, then that’s on you. But they are also under no obligation to offer one.

As an aside, if you have private health insurance, will that not cover you for treatment once you’re home?

Well I'm not sure if it would have but it won't now as I cancelled it in July 😳 But I don't think the package I had covered dental.

They don't currently offer any cover other than when we are in the states. I'm sure if everyone knew the true weight of the situation we would all be a lot more pro active protecting ourselves.

Want to thank you so much to you all for the replies. All of these thoughts have been going around it my head and I needed to think out loud to see it all put in perspective so I will deal with the consequences now and take it upon myself to ensure I'm not left in a situation like this again.

Batgurl

In my opinion, they are providing the statutory minimum by covering your medical expenses while abroad as these are extraordinary expenses to you that you wouldn’t incur in Ireland.

The crux of the issue here is judging whether this is a workplace accident (ie one which they are liable for) or an accident you had during work (for which you are liable). That’s what you need to work out to determine whether you should be pursuing them or not.

Leave aside the Ireland vs USA side of it and decide who was at fault.

Lappies81

cnoc wrote: »

Can you answer what Batgurl asked?

"So what were the details of your fall? Was is due to exhaustion/jet lag from the flight? Or due to clumsiness/alcohol. Was there a loose carpet in the hotel they put you in? Or were you rushing for your return flight because the taxi they ordered you was late? These things will likely all affect culpability".

Thanks for your interest but I won't bore you with the details.
You could use any or all of these scenarios and the outcome upon return is the same, we are responsible for our own medical costs unless we enact the services of a solicitor. In past cases a solicitor has successfully forced the company to cover all medical costs to conclusion.

And that is why I've posted this query, to try to gain some knowledge and peace of mind in relation to the moral justice as well as the legal side. If you have any input to that end I'd welcome it.

Batgurl

Lots of people throughout history have engaged the services of a solicitor for financial gain. That doesn’t mean their compensation was either justified or deserved.

Frequently companies will pay people off just to avoid the hassle / bad press.

You can do this of course but I’d kiss your reputation within the company goodbye if you did this.

In fact the airline industry can be very closed doors so doing this would likely jeopardise your career in general as people talk. Worth bearing in mind.

Lappies81

Batgurl wrote: »

In my opinion, they are providing the statutory minimum by covering your medical expenses while abroad as these are extraordinary expenses to you that you wouldn’t incur in Ireland.

The crux of the issue here is judging whether this is a workplace accident (ie one which they are liable for) or an accident you had during work (for which you are liable). That’s what you need to work out to determine whether you should be pursuing them or not.

Leave aside the Ireland vs USA side of it and decide who was at fault.

Ive just had the lightbulb moment I've needed ..thanks Batgirl...it makes perfect sense that they are covering costs which I would not have had to incur if it happened at home. And bare minimum is right. Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge and opinion. Just what I needed.

Lappies81

Batgurl wrote: »

Lots of people throughout history have engaged the services of a solicitor for financial gain. That doesn’t mean their compensation was either justified or deserved.

Frequently companies will pay people off just to avoid the hassle / bad press.

You can do this of course but I’d kiss your reputation within the company goodbye if you did this.

In fact the airline industry can be very closed doors so doing this would likely jeopardise your career in general as people talk. Worth bearing in mind.

All I would have expected was my medical costs and not a penny more.
This wasn't about compensation of any kind, just reimbursement of medical costs. Accidents happen I'm very reasonable, I just don't want to be out of pocket if it's a case that my injury should be covered by my employer through insurance.
Just the fact that it's a flat no, in all circumstances outside the aircraft, unless legal action is employed doesn't seem right.
They treat every case the same until they are faced with legal action and it's a hard pill to swallow.

But as I've already said I'll be better protected in future. Knowledge is power. Just wish I'd known this before and it's a disgrace that his isn't common knowledge throughout the company.