New tyres... all season?

Damiencm

Looking to buy a set of new run flats (not cheap!)

Should I be looking at winter tyres? Summer??

I have seen set of reasonably priced Bridgestones online but they are summer tyres, Fuel rating C rain rating A. Would these be sufficient for general irish weather? i.e. a bit of everything?!

jimbis

By all means if your forking out for run flats then go with summer. You'll have them for longer than the winter too.
We just don't get the weather here to justify winter tyres.

grogi

jimbis wrote: »

By all means if your forking out for run flats then go with summer. You'll have them for longer than the winter too.
We just don't get the weather here to justify winter tyres.

No, but we don't get summer weather as well...

What OP needs is a tyre that will be very good in rain, but won't give up when there is snow (majority of summer tyres do). Michelin CrossClimate is like that - it is a wet-focused tyre that handles acceptably in snow. I don't know if they are run-flats though.

jimbis

grogi wrote: »

No, but we don't get summer weather as well...

What OP needs is a tyre that will be very good in rain, but won't give up when there is snow (majority of summer tyres do). Michelin CrossClimate is like that - it is a wet-focused tyre that handles acceptably in snow. I don't know if they are run-flats though.

Judging by the op's post he has a set of summer tyres picked out and is wondering if they'll work in this climate, Which the answer is yes.
Yup there is options out there like cross climate but does he really need them. or have the budget for them.

It snows very rarely in this country, and snows over a long period of time even more rarely. Snow tyres are not needed here, if people are worried about another 2010 style winter then by snow socks.

and yes i know u didnt mention snow tyres, im just generalizing.

Vittu

Damiencm wrote: »

Looking to buy a set of new run flats (not cheap!)

Should I be looking at winter tyres? Summer??

I have seen set of reasonably priced Bridgestones online but they are summer tyres, Fuel rating C rain rating A. Would these be sufficient for general irish weather? i.e. a bit of everything?!

I live in Cavan area and have a rear wheel drive car which wife drives an hour to work in the morning. I was worried about frost/snow/heavy rain so I purchased a second hand set of alloys with all weather tyres (Nokian)on them from DD, noisier than the summers with deeper thread and more aggressive pattern with softer rubber provides a more secure drive. I took the car out in the snow last year with these tyres and was able to drive no problem. Drove cautiously though.
I got a good deal on them and they stay on for about 4 months so saves the summer tyres a bit. MPG increased slightly also. Peace of mind really and ability for her to get home from work if weather turns very cold..

Vittu

Vittu wrote: »

I live in Cavan area and have a rear wheel drive car which wife drives an hour to work in the morning. I was worried about frost/snow/heavy rain so I purchased a second hand set of alloys with all weather tyres (Nokian)on them from DD, noisier than the summers with deeper thread and more aggressive pattern with softer rubber provides a more secure drive. I took the car out in the snow last year with these tyres and was able to drive no problem. Drove cautiously though.
I got a good deal on them and they stay on for about 4 months so saves the summer tyres a bit. MPG increased slightly also. Peace of mind really and ability for her to get home from work if weather turns very cold..

I forgot to say they are not runflats, can of puncture fix in the boot.

Damiencm

Thanks for the feedback. It looks like I'll be safe enough with my choice.

Ps is a can of puncture fix any good..? Was reading up on this the last time I was changing tyres, from memory it wasn't up to much but I might be wrong

EPAndlee

I personally wouldn't waste money on winter tyres. I'm running Pirelli P7 Cinturato run flat summer tyres and I'm very impressed with them they have an A rating in the wet. I think they retail around the 170 mark.
If your after an all weather tyre maybe something like Goodyear Eagles would suit you

Vittu

Damiencm wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. It looks like I'll be safe enough with my choice.

Ps is a can of puncture fix any good..? Was reading up on this the last time I was changing tyres, from memory it wasn't up to much but I might be wrong

Never needed to use it but I hope i never need to, adapt your driving to weather conditions and you should be fine.

GTE

All seasons are great.

There is SO much discussion about it here that a search will bring up loads of material.

Charles Babbage

grogi wrote: »

No, but we don't get summer weather as well...

What OP needs is a tyre that will be very good in rain, but won't give up when there is snow (majority of summer tyres do). Michelin CrossClimate is like that - it is a wet-focused tyre that handles acceptably in snow. I don't know if they are run-flats though.

Exactly. We need a wet performance and a tyre that isn't entirely useless in snow. There is a substantial difference between some tyres and all seasons in snow, as I discovered in 2010 when I had brand new tyres which were still useless. I then replaced those with All Seasons, Bridgestone A001 which were not useless in snow and just as good in the rain, perhaps not quite as good in dry conditions in warm weather, but this is the best stopping time and will be good enough.

micks_address

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Exactly. We need a wet performance and a tyre that isn't entirely useless in snow. There is a substantial difference between some tyres and all seasons in snow, as I discovered in 2010 when I had brand new tyres which were still useless. I then replaced those with All Seasons, Bridgestone A001 which were not useless in snow and just as good in the rain, perhaps not quite as good in dry conditions in warm weather, but this is the best stopping time and will be good enough.

I ran a set of cross climates on my last car and cross climates plus on current car. No complaints. I don't dribe at high speeds etc but feel pretty confident with them in all conditions. Haven't had a chance to drive in snow with them.

ION08

EPAndlee wrote: »

I personally wouldn't waste money on winter tyres. I'm running Pirelli P7 Cinturato run flat summer tyres and I'm very impressed with them they have an A rating in the wet. I think they retail around the 170 mark.
If your after an all weather tyre maybe something like Goodyear Eagles would suit you

I have Pirelli Cinturato P7 Blue on my car . They are 'AA' rated and excellent in the wet.

They are on a Quattro and even in the wet, the grip is sublime.

You really have to try very hard to break traction. (Although I'm sure it might be different on a RWD car)

I would have no hesitation in recommending and going for these tyres again.

The only other tyres on my radar are Continental PremiumContact5 , I would say look into them aswell

mikeecho

+ 1
I have pirelli Centuaro p7 summers all round on a rwd

They perform great all year round.


This country doesn't get harsh winter's , or hot hot summers.

Summer tyres will do fine, or get all seasons of you live in an area prone to snow /ice and lack of local gritting.

Wibbs

Another shout out for the Crossclimates. Great tyre IMHO. OK doesn't have the ultimate grip of a pure summer tyre, but damned close. Certainly close enough for non track use anyway.

no.8

EPAndlee wrote:

I personally wouldn't waste money on winter tyres. I'm running Pirelli P7 Cinturato run flat summer tyres and I'm very impressed with them they have an A rating in the wet. I think they retail around the 170 mark. If your after an all weather tyre maybe something like Goodyear Eagles would suit you[/quote

Can't argue with the poorer overall performance of summer tyres in the wet under 7C. Therefore they are not a waste of money. All season (trad. Or summer bias) may tick more boxes however, without the dry warmer weather braking performance

no.8

Opps. Quoted the lot. *Meant vs. summer tyre which has better performance in warm/dry conditions

beauf

I've had CrossClimates on one car for about 2yrs, no complaints. Did ok in the snow, but they are not a snow tire, they couldn't get over a ramp on a slight slope. But on the flat I could get around in the snow ok. But struggled in deeper/softer patches. I had no issues in rain, or the heat.

uck51js9zml2yt

I put on 2 new cross climate + yesterday.
Std cross climate on the back.
Never had a problem with them

wing52

What's the difference between the crissclimate and the crossclimate plus?
Just that i have the crossclimate already.

beauf

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/What-changed-with-the-new-Michelin-CrossClimate-Plus.htm

Longer life & better in the wet, I think.

Spook_ie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNuqGUgbcIk

X Climate seems like a good all rounder

cpoh1

Cross climates are a game changer. I just wouldnt go back to a summer tyre after having these on a high powered rwd through the winter. They perform better in the wet and snow and in the cold/dry combo that we regularly get over here.

People forget that the difference between a summer and all weather tyre is so much more than thread pattern, most summer tyres compound starts going off under 8 degrees and just wont grip in the dry like it does on a warm summers day.

CJhaughey

I have used a lot of different Winter and All weathers over the last 5 years, Crossclimates were pretty good as were Nokian Weatherproof.
They are a lot better than summer tyres when its cool and wet which is a pretty typical winter even if you take snow out of the equation they are worth it in my view.
All tyres grip and stop pretty well in warm dry conditions, its when its wet, cold and dark and you need to brake quickly that better gripping tyres make the difference.

beauf

I would say none are a performance tyre. So you if drive hard, and its a performance car, you might want something better.

CJhaughey

beauf wrote: »

I would say none are a performance tyre. So you if drive hard, and its a performance car, you might want something better.

If you are driving a performance car hard in wet cold and dark conditions then you better be prepared for something to happen that may cost more then two sets of wheels and tyres.
There is a time and place for hard driving and its generally not in poor conditions which is where these tyres excel.

beauf

I kinda meant you might want better summer tyres.

grogi

beauf wrote: »

I kinda meant you might want better summer tyres.

Generally, summer tyres have an advantage only in dry and hot conditions. During cold wet evening the winter tyre will be better than summer tyre!

beauf

I hadn't considered that you guys would drive hardest on a cold wet dark evening in a performance car. I had assumed (wrongly obviously) people would do it in optimum conditions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is a reason Cross Climates do well in the summer vs a summer tyre.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-Auto-Bild-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

Don’t be fooled into thinking this is another all-season tyre. Cross Climates are strictly labelled as summer rubber that borrow tread structure and compound chemistry from their winter counterparts. This enables them to receive official winter certification, so they can legally be used during winter in countries that enforce such tyre regulations.

https://www.evo.co.uk/features/15600/michelin-cross-climate-vs-winter-and-all-season-tyres

All season tyres are traditionally "winter-bias all season" tyres. This means the tyre is more like a winter tyre than a summer tyre, and as a result there are performance penalties in the dry.

The "summer-bias all season" Michelin CrossClimate is more like a summer tyre than a winter tyre, which means during the dry tests, the Michelin dominated, stopping a huge 2.4 meters before the Goodyear stopped, and actually posting a faster lap time than the reference summer tyre on test!

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-Auto-Bild-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

cpoh1

beauf wrote: »

I hadn't considered that you guys would drive hardest on a cold wet dark evening in a performance car. I had assumed (wrongly obviously) people would do it in optimum conditions.

Nobody said that. If you have to brake hard in an emergency situation on a cold dry winters day on a summer performance tyre you will struggle compared to tyre like a michelin crossclimate.
Bonus of the cross climates is that they go really well in the snow also and are superb in the wet and summer too.

beauf

The whole point of the links above, is that the Crossclimate is closer to a summer tire than a all season, or winter or snow tire.

I'm not sure why I talk about one specific use case and I'm quoted about an entirely different one.

Wibbs

beauf wrote: »

The whole point of the links above, is that the Crossclimate is closer to a summer tire than a all season, or winter or snow tire.

+1. They're bloody close to a performance summer tyre and well ahead of most all season tyres on that score. They're not quite as good in snow as a more winter biased tyre, but there's remarkably little in it, though they're certainly not as good as a pure snow tyre(I've had all of the above on the same car in various conditions), but for my money and my driving style/abilities* they've been the best all rounder so far for Irish seasonal conditions. I went out every day in the last snow days we had and they were very impressive. One thing I noticed was the breakaway when they did lose grip was very progressive and came with plenty of warning. The pure snow tyres I slapped on the last time we had big snow(2011?) were better of course. Most noticeably where the snow had compacted, frozen overnight and turned to ice. Pure snow tyres could handle the deeper stuff too. I was more aware of my car being lower than normal and the front spoiler acting like a snow plough than the grip in the tyres.






*a big part of it IMHO. In my travels during the last snows I saw a fair number of cars with four wheel drive and winter tyres losing grip, drifting across roads, bogged into paths and the like. Down to driving style, not the tyres.

cpoh1

beauf wrote: »

The whole point of the links above, is that the Crossclimate is closer to a summer tire than a all season, or winter or snow tire.

I'm not sure why I talk about one specific use case and I'm quoted about an entirely different one.

You asked why people were driving their cars on in the wet and needed a good performance tyre for those conditions, i answered that.
to state that crossclimates are closer to summer tyres because the crossclimates perform better than 90% of performance summer tyres doesnt mean they dont perform just as well as the other all season tyres on the market. From my experience they are just as good if not better. 

To summarize here it makes no sense not to have an all season tyre like the crossclimates on your car with the benefits they give in an irish winter over summer tyres and the performance they offer in the dry summer months. Game changer.

beauf

Cross climate I found good in falling snow as you say you retained controlled and progressive breakaway. But not when it got deep like 4~6" fresh snow, it struggled with that. I didn't get stuck either. Compacted icy slopes/ramps it couldn't do either.

Summer I didn't notice any difference vs Summers on the other car.

beauf

cpoh1 wrote: »

You asked why people were driving their cars on in the wet and needed a good performance tyre for those conditions, i answered that...

Nope never mentioned wet.

beauf wrote: »

...So if you drive hard, and its a performance car, you might want something better....

Never occurred to me someone sees a wet and/or cold winters day as the best day to drive hard, in a performance car. I stand corrected.

no.8

Quick Q. The standard tipping point is 7 celcius (summer /winter tyre benefit). However is this air temperature or road temperature (im assuming it's air temperature but id love to see info. For road temp.).

Is it because of the high variability in road temperatures that it is not considered (if this is the case)?

Cheers, no.8

Charles Babbage

cpoh1 wrote: »

You asked why people were driving their cars on in the wet and needed a good performance tyre for those conditions, i answered that.
to state that crossclimates are closer to summer tyres because the crossclimates perform better than 90% of performance summer tyres doesnt mean they dont perform just as well as the other all season tyres on the market. From my experience they are just as good if not better.

To summarize here it makes no sense not to have an all season tyre like the crossclimates on your car with the benefits they give in an irish winter over summer tyres and the performance they offer in the dry summer months. Game changer.

In Ireland, why are somewhat all season tyres not supplied on new cars?

Cool wet roads are common here.

CJhaughey

Charles Babbage wrote: »

In Ireland, why are somewhat all season tyres not supplied on new cars?

Cool wet roads are common here.

I was talking to a tyre guy one time and he said that in the words of the Bridgestone rep most cars should be running all seasons all year round here.
I guess they probably have an impact on Co2 figures and hence don't get fitted as standard. With the WLTP coming into force I think there is likely to be a lot of ecotyres fitted as standard with very light construction and low rolling resistance.

Charles Babbage

Can you specify tyres on a new car? I would certainly opt for All Seasons if I had a choice. More important than some of the things you can choose.

CJhaughey

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Can you specify tyres on a new car? I would certainly opt for All Seasons if I had a choice. More important than some of the things you can choose.

New cars come with the tyres the manufacturers deem the best for the car, it can come down to rolling resistance and fuel economy as much as comfort.
I do not think they are able to be specced at purchase though, they will have to be fitted afterwards.
I agree that the tyres are one of the most important things you can buy, they aren't sexy though being a round black rubber ring, the crappiest tyre looks identical to the best one to most people.

grogi

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Can you specify tyres on a new car? I would certainly opt for All Seasons if I had a choice. More important than some of the things you can choose.

With VAG cars in some markets you can. It costs ridicolous amount of money though.

CJhaughey

grogi wrote: »

With VAG cars in some markets you can. It costs ridicolous amount of money though.

I doubt this will be an option after WTLP comes into force.

Charles Babbage

grogi wrote: »

With VAG cars in some markets you can. It costs ridicolous amount of money though.

There is a opportunity for someone here to make a virtue out of doing so, perhaps Skoda (transporters of Popes) might extend their "made for Ireland" ads to include specced for Ireland, including tyres.