What is this type of behaviour by my mother? Perspective needed.

LegacyUser

Hi all. Will try to keep this short but feel I need to give sufficient detail so I can get some views on what is clearly a mental health/personality disorder of my mother.

I am a 30 year old woman and for as long as I can remember my Mam has always been really difficult. I was a well-behaved child, good at school and never did anything major wrong but all I seemed to do growing up was constantly disappoint her. For years I pushed it under the carpet and never gave any inclination anything was wrong but over the past year or two I feel a mixture of anger/heartbreak about the childhood I never had and that she will never change. I spoke to a friend of mine about it recently and she had no idea but having seen the way my mother looked at me and heard what she consequently said to me at a family wedding she saw it with her own two eyes.

Basically I have never felt the genuine familial love from my mother that one would expect. I'ts like she has her own issues and she takes them out on me whenever she sees fit. I have a brother and he is like the golden child and did a lot more wrong than me in our childhood and teenage years but never got treated the way I do.
As a child someone was always better than me and I was always the worst in the world. On the way home from a swimming lesson one evening she slowed down the car and was going to hit me because I wasn't ready when she came in to collect me. This was actually because my cousin cut herself and I went with her to find help but she didn't seem to care. I was always compared to friends, look at how nice a girl _____ is, I don't see _________ behaving like you and I was constantly told that people were laughing at me behind my back.

I went through a tough time in a job where my boss was a bully and there was no support from her. I put on a bit of weight when I initially started working, not even enough to be overweight as I'm generally a size 8 and I was asked if I was pregnant. Years ago a guy I used to be meeting died by suicide (never told her I was meeting him) and she had to call to my rented house to bring me home to the funeral. My room wasn't the neatest and again the roaring started and I was told that I stink, everything about me stinks and what was wrong with me that I couldn't be normal.
Recently at a family wedding I offered to drive her and my Dad to the church as they are elderly and even though she thinks she can drive in a city, she has lost the quick thinking you need to be able to drive in built up areas. As I was driving along she told me I wasn't to take this exit, I replied ya I think it's the next one that's what I remember from the map. She lost it with me saying why did I have to be so stubborn and the usual nasty remarks and comments ensued. When we got to the church I had to go into the toilet to try stop myself from crying. The next night was also in the city and a relation who was supposed to drive them in cancelled so it was left to me. I was reluctant but would prefer it than the risk of her crashing the car. A call came to know if I would go in the taxi but I explained to her I was driving in and she proceeded to start an argument with me on the phone with the other person saying why was I being so difficult and for once can't I just be nice. I then had to explain to the other person why I wasn't going in the taxi and once I explained she was ok.

The above are just a few incidents where she has been so nasty and horrible to me. I've been called a liar as recently as last week as I came home after not being home for a while and went for a shower, she didn't believe me and I was called a liar. The same happened two Christmasses ago and it ended up in me leaving the house Christmas Eve morning in bits and only coming back because my Dad was singing at mass. It has really affected me in the last year or two as I try to limit my time at home but most of my friends are local. I don't have a boyfriend and sometimes I wonder if anyone will ever really love me in an unconditional way in which my friends families all have. I'm tired of having to put on a brave face all the time to people after another one of her outbursts and I'm tired of getting upset when I see friends parents being lovely and kind and I wonder what I did so wrong.

I guess I just posted here as I'd love to know what is wrong with her. I presume it's some kind of mental illness but feel maybe if I could understand it a bit better I may not be as angry towards her. Sorry again for the length of the post and thanks for reading.

Xterminator

HI Op

Why would you try to diagnose your mother? Its a bad strategy & and you are not going to change her.

Instead you need to look at how you interact with her. you cannot control her, but you do have control over where and how you engage with her, and your responses to her.

have a read of this site for some practical
https://www.psychologies.co.uk/how-manage-toxic-mother

Good luck

MissShihTzu

Hi OP

You're not alone. My mother was/is exactly the same. Nothing I did was ever good enough, compared unfavourably with cousins/ daughters of friends, etc, etc. Finally came to a head when I married and moved here. She no longer had her scratching post to take out her bitterness and spite on.

Took me many years, but I have finally cut her off again for good this time. I no longer speak to her, will not visit when I go home, and limit my communications to cards at Christmas and birthdays.

I would suggest you do the same. Limit your interactions with your mother. If she wants to drive herself to events? Let her. Don't argue with her. It won't work, and all you will do is upset yourself.

Easier said than done, but if your Mum starts with the nonsense? Just say 'I don't have to put up with this' and walk out. Do not engage in any way. Do not allow her to pull the victim card.

Get counselling for yourself too. Take back control and live your life for you.

Mind how you go!

Kalimah

You're 30 now, not 13 so you have the freedom to live your life the way you want. If it was me I'd cut her off like Miss ShihTzu did her mother. You wouldn't take that behaviour from a friend would you? Don't take it from your mother either.
I have a friend in her 50s whose mother is exactly the same- and my friend is a very intelligent high achiever who is extremely well known and respected in her field.
I think these mothers are just jealous of their daughters.

Good luck!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Daisy78

Sorry to hear of your troubles OP. From reading your post it would seem to me that you are a good daughter, to both your parents so I think it's important to acknowledge that despite what your mother would have you think. It's obvious your mother has issues, whatever they may be but at this stage of both of your lives it's unlikely she will divulge what those issues are. It would seem that your mother is quite unhappy in herself, and as one poster put it she needs someone to take that discontentment out on, otherwise she has to keep it bottled up inside. You didn't mention your father or brother, what kind of relationship do you have with them? Your family consists of more than just your mother, could you possibly talk to either of them about it? If not, would it be worth talking with a counsellor about how you feel, if only to give you time to talk/vent to someone who is removed from the situation?

As the other posters have said she is unlikely to alter her behaviour at this stage of her life. But you can change how you react to her. At 30 you should be working towards building your own life, you are not beholden to her and should be thinking about your future and what that might look like. It might mean pulling back on how much you engage with her, not completely but enough to ensure you preserve your mental health and happiness. If she sees that you will not bow down to her behaviour it might make her realise what she has to loose.

To add to the above, there is a very good book called the Daughterhood written by Roisin Ingle and Natasha Fennell. I haven't read the whole book just some extracts, but it describes the emotional complexities associated with the mother daughter relation very well, it might be worth a read not least just to you an insight into how common this issue is and other women have dealt with it.

LynnGrace

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

+1 to this. It pretty much sums up what I was about to say.

Put yourself first now, focus on protecting yourself, and freeing yourself from the past, and from her. She is not going to change.
So all that you can do is distance yourself physically and mentally from her. I know that won't be easy, but you owe it to yourself and to the child that you were. I think that you would find counselling helpful, in this respect.

There is a good thread on the Mumsnet website, in the Relationships section, which you might find useful too. 'But we took you to stately homes'.
It is about situations similar to yours.

All the best OP.

LegacyUser

Thanks so much to all that replied. I get what people are saying about acceptance being the first step. Personally I feel like it's something I will never be able to fully accept as I keep telling myself that she'll never change but at times I just get so upset and angry after another one of her episodes. It's like I know deep down that she will always be like this but some part of me keeps a bit of hope that she might realise the error of her ways.
I guess it's only in the last five or six years that I have begun to see the behaviour for what it really is as before that I was constantly blaming myself, wondering what it was that I had done so wrong. Since then I have tried really hard to not let it get to me, and to a point it works but I honestly feel like it is tearing me up bit by bit. I get so sick of having to put on the brave face all the time and act like nothing ever has happened. I have spoken to my brother about it and he keeps distance from her.
I told him about the incident where she called me difficult and started arguing with me because I wouldn't take a taxi as I was driving my parents into the city the night after the wedding. He said to me I know she wasn't fair to you and I'll say it to her and he never did.
She is the same with my Dad and is always criticising him and he might just make a simple statement on something and she sees fit to launch into another tirade.

I guess I posted here as I just wonder is it something I will ever get over or something that I will just let go over my head? I will look into counselling as I feel I might need some help and direction to do this.

zoobizoo

outsideview wrote: »

I have spoken to my brother about it and he keeps distance from her.

He said to me I know she wasn't fair to you and I'll say it to her and he never did.


I guess I posted here as I just wonder is it something I will ever get over or something that I will just let go over my head? I will look into counselling as I feel I might need some help and direction to do this.

Your brother is doing what is best for him - he keeps his distance and for your own well being, so should you.

Expecting a different result each time is your main issue

It's like continually telling a gossip a secret and expecting them to not blab.

The issue isn't the blabbermouth - it's that you don't learn not to tell them stuff.


You have to accept your mother for who and what she is - and then decide if that's someone you want to deal with / listen to / put up with etc

If you knew that she will never change, what decision would you make right now?

Witchie

Kalimah wrote: »

I think these mothers are just jealous of their daughters.

Nail on the head here.

My dad pointed this out to me as a teenager and whilst it didn't help for many years, it does now.

When I was a child and teen I used to model clothing. My mother then bought a boutique and was running fashion shows. I was away in first year of college and had put on a little weight (was still a size 10 which was acceptable for models back then) and my mum was running a fashion show. I asked her when did she need me home for fittings and she said "your cousin ..... is modelling instead, she has a much better figure and you have put on so much weight you look terrible." My cousin was on holidays from America and was the all American cheerleader type and my mum doted on her. Of course this upset me so the weekend of the fashion show I arrived home and decided to wear a beautiful slinky red dress I had made that showed off my figure perfectly to the fashion show. I arrived and went backstage and asked my mum if she needed any help. She looked me up and down and said "you look like a whore, go home". I cried for days. And then dad pointed out that my mum could see that her best days of beauty were behind her in her opinion (she is still a stunning woman and my current squeeze was saying how sexy she is now in her 70s!) and that she was jealous of my youth and beauty. It was a ground shaking moment for me.

I know that a big part of the reason I have weight problems now is down to her cruel comments if I put on a pound growing up. I know I got fat partly just to pi** her off and make her embarrassed so that she could no longer make me feel crap.

outsideview wrote: »

Thanks so much to all that replied. I get what people are saying about acceptance being the first step. Personally I feel like it's something I will never be able to fully accept as I keep telling myself that she'll never change but at times I just get so upset and angry after another one of her episodes. It's like I know deep down that she will always be like this but some part of me keeps a bit of hope that she might realise the error of her ways.
I guess it's only in the last five or six years that I have begun to see the behaviour for what it really is as before that I was constantly blaming myself, wondering what it was that I had done so wrong. Since then I have tried really hard to not let it get to me, and to a point it works but I honestly feel like it is tearing me up bit by bit. I get so sick of having to put on the brave face all the time and act like nothing ever has happened. I have spoken to my brother about it and he keeps distance from her.
I told him about the incident where she called me difficult and started arguing with me because I wouldn't take a taxi as I was driving my parents into the city the night after the wedding. He said to me I know she wasn't fair to you and I'll say it to her and he never did.
She is the same with my Dad and is always criticising him and he might just make a simple statement on something and she sees fit to launch into another tirade.

I guess I posted here as I just wonder is it something I will ever get over or something that I will just let go over my head? I will look into counselling as I feel I might need some help and direction to do this.

Only I know my mother doesn't say anything bad to any of my other siblings, I would swear we were sisters. My little sister can do no wrong. Is perfect and I was always held up as the failure compared to her and my brothers until recent years when she realised I am the only one who does anything for them, I rescued my younger brother from horrendous situations, have brought her anywhere she needed to go and basically her and dad seemed almost helpless without me. That is part of the reason I moved to Asia coz despite having a much better relationship with her and adoring my dad, I needed my own life and not being answerable to her.

I am looking forward to going home at Christmas coz now she does have some restraint and we have gotten to a fairly good place.

So basically what I am saying is, I understand completely where you are coming from but by putting some distance between you, you may be able to salvage a decent relationship.

Cuddlesworth

outsideview wrote: »

I have a brother and he is like the golden child and did a lot more wrong than me in our childhood and teenage years but never got treated the way I do.

Characteristics of Narcissist parents.

I mean you could go through your post and that site almost word for word.

As others have said, you can't change her. But your an adult now and can control the extent she is involved in your life.

Emme

OP you will never be able to change your mother. I would advise you to go NO CONTACT for a while and that includes Christmas and New Year. Don't let the family or anyone else try to guilt you into going back. You need space to get your head together, decide what is is YOU want and build up a support system for yourself. You CANNOT do this while you are running around like a headless chicken trying to please your mother and keep your family placated. If they need help or a driver let them call on your brother.

If you don't break away now you will spend you entire life at the beck and call of your mother and your family suffering endless abuse. You could end up 50, single and even more in thrall to a needy abusive parent with no life of your own in sight.

Narcissists never change and can never be placated. There is no point in trying to have a relationship with them. Get as far away as possible and have a life of your own. This might mean leaving your old friends behind and making a new life and new friends somewhere else.

Rubberchikken

I'm really sorry your relationship with your mother isn't the one you'd love to have.
Honestly at this stage you're not going to be able to change her and she probably doesn't realise or care what she's like.
In her eyes she's probably always been a good mother to a child who was 'difficult ' or 'stubborn.
It could go back to something or someone from before you were born.
The important thing is to learn to accept that none of it was your fault. People can be like this and others learn to accept it or ignore it or have no contact.

Only you can decide what's the best thing for you in these circumstances.
Good luck

valoren

Rubberchikken wrote: »

I'm really sorry your relationship with your mother isn't the one you'd love to have.
Honestly at this stage you're not going to be able to change her and she probably doesn't realise or care what she's like.
In her eyes she's probably always been a good mother to a child who was 'difficult ' or 'stubborn.
It could go back to something or someone from before you were born.
The important thing is to learn to accept that none of it was your fault. People can be like this and others learn to accept it or ignore it or have no contact.

Only you can decide what's the best thing for you in these circumstances.
Good luck

To support this, I can add that while she will think of the OP as stubborn and difficult, were she to cut ties or cut down interactions then her mother will look at this as vindication for her. She was right all along! Narcissists are never wrong and you doing what's best for your own self interests in itself will be exploited and manipulated to make the mother out as the suffering hero for a stubborn, difficult daughter. That's how they frame it. If she does this OP, realize that it is all part of her issues and you doing that is not your fault.

As other's have mentioned she will never change and with such toxic people, frustratingly to sound rational people like the OP, the only way to deal with them is to not deal with them for your own peace of mind and sanity.

WIZWEB

As soon as I read your post OP I was ready to jump in with a diagnosis of NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disoder). It's a spectrum. We all display healthy narcissism but then there are these extremes. Thankfully many others here are already aware. Though I'm not qualified to make this analysis many of the experts that should be are blissfully ignorant of this condition. It's very common and misunderstood. It's virtually untreatable as it's usually the victims that seek therapy very rarely the perpetrators and often for something else related. So often it doesn't merit expert interventions due to their inability to ever address it. The psychiatric profession has no pill to sell to cure or maintain it. Psychologists and counsellors are manipulated by malignant narcissists. These prospective clients have constructed their own protective reality (false self) since early childhood so being presented with the truth by experts is a pointless endeavor inducing narcissistic rage. This rage can consist of individual or combined gaslighting, lies, manipulations or even total non engagement (silent treatment). After years of research these professionals have realized they can't resolve this mental disorder.

I've read volumes of studies on this and even without this label your mam is very toxic and won't change only if she wants to over many years of psychotherapy. Why would she want to change shen she's sees herself as perfect and everyone else lacking! We're overwhelmingly stuck with our personalities as developed from early childhood experiences.

You've already been offered some great advise here by posters. Read the recommended literature. Go NO CONTACT as emphasized or Grey Rock (minimum contact, birthdays, Xmas etc). You've highlighted the gaslighting, grandiousness, envy, sense of entitlement, scapegoating, haughtiness, need for admiration, lack of empathy and abuse of power and control that defines this personality disorder in the psychiatric DSM 5 bible.

Seek therapy for yourself with an expert in trauma bonding/CPTSD. My personal experience as also experienced by many other survivors is that being conditioned by narcissists for years gravitates us towards them and them to us in many other types of toxic relationships.

LegacyUser

Hi outsideview (OP),

I agree with most of the above. I posted something recently about my wife and the difficulty in living with someone who has a lot of the personality traits that you describe above. If anything, your mother seems a notch up the ladder (or spectrum) compared to my wife. However, I am re-thinking this from the perspective of my daughter who is mid-teenage years. The golden boy and chastised daughter dynamic rings a bell for me regarding how I perceive my wife treats my daughter.

I have no idea as to what insight my wife has into it but in general the dynamic in our household is that it appears that my wife has undefined issues and that she projects some aspect of her frustration in dealing with those issues on my daughter much more so than my son. Both of my kids are very bright. My son is probably exceptionally bright and there is an element of the narcissism as I see it going on there whereby he might be seen as an extension of the family pride whereas perhaps with my daughter my wife sees some of her own frailties and projects anger onto her. Honestly, it's almost too difficult to untangle and I am just sitting there from the point of view of a husband/father who is affected personally (loveless marriage) and occasionally just wondering how healthy the overall family configuration is for both my kids - who are relatively privileged in terms of aspects of material wealth.

My daughter is actually attending someone regarding anxiety which became an issue some time last year. I've seen my wife engage in what I can only regard as hot/cold behaviour towards her. A lot of tension in mornings around her not being fully ready/prepared for school, focussing on the 15% she didn't get in an 85% result and then occasional love bombing when it becomes appararent that my daughter is very upset. It must be confusing for my daughter and I would be worried that it might put her into a cycle of trying to keep looking for approval that is hard won from my wife.

I've no idea if this perspective makes sense. I do agree with WIZWEB that this looks like a narcissistic disorder albeit somewhere on a curve or spectrum and classically almost impossible to diagnose. My wife , for example dodged marriage counselling so I feel there is no effort on her part to recognise issues that she personally has. She has obviously built up a protective shell of sorts and the fallout is a lot of hurt for those around her.

I think the advice about distance is good here. You are 30 now and maybe time to limit ties in as much as you can, sad as that may seem. I seem to recall Michael Murphy, the ex-news anchor make some interesting observations before about cutting out negative people in one's life before and he seems to be a rock of sense.

-perspectiveguy

Bowlardo

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Characteristics of Narcissist parents.

I mean you could go through your post and that site almost word for word.

As others have said, you can't change her. But your an adult now and can control the extent she is involved in your life.

**** me that link is on the money. I had two gfs that had mothers that were like that with them. I have no sisters so not too informed on the dyamic of mothers and daughters but there is definitely something in that.

up for anything

perspectiveguy wrote: »

.........

My daughter is actually attending someone regarding anxiety which became an issue some time last year. I've seen my wife engage in what I can only regard as hot/cold behaviour towards her. A lot of tension in mornings around her not being fully ready/prepared for school, focussing on the 15% she didn't get in an 85% result and then occasional love bombing when it becomes appararent that my daughter is very upset. It must be confusing for my daughter and I would be worried that it might put her into a cycle of trying to keep looking for approval that is hard won from my wife.

......

Have you had it out with your wife about her behaviour towards your daughter? You can't let that go on. The poor child is already having anxiety issues. Her mother will screw her up completely.

a_murph613

Hi OP,

I have experienced a similar relationship with my mother. Growing up she was not the most loving and used to make me beg her just so she would bring me to school when I was younger. When I look back I realise how ****ed up it was. But I realise that honestly she was and is not a nice person. As hard as that can be to admit or believe about your parent sometimes it's just true.
She now has Alzheimer's which makes her even more aggressive and mean but doesn't make it any easier to deal with. I'm 28 and although I know the disease makes everything worse the way she talks to me and the things she say still upset me very much.
I will say though that I have gone to therapy and talking to someone about these issues has helped me deal with some of it better. The therapist will give you ways of coping when these incidences occur as well as helping you realise you can't change her and that it is not your fault or your responsibility to look after your mother.
Also I disagree with what others have suggested that you should cut her off. Personally I would never do that and it is not for her but me. I don't want to have regrets when she's gone. Instead I keep my distance, that doesn't mean I don't visit but rather limit my interactions with her and remove myself from situations I'm not happy with. When I do get upset I reason though what happened and how it is not my fault, I can't control other people and I can only control how I let what they say affect me. Just because your mother says something does not make it true and if you find yourself starting to believe it then think of all the things you've done which prove it false no matter how small.
I think everyone wants to get the approval of their parents in life and for them to tell you that your doing a good job and they are proud of you but for some people that will just never happen. And that is ok. It is through no fault of our own.

Also I just want to say I am relatively new to boards and I am loving how supportive and helpful people are on here of each other. It's really amazing.