I feel like they got everything

LegacyUser

Hi there,

Not sure what im really looking for - but i really need to vent. I've had this racking my brain for quite a while. I'm the middle child and only daughter. I have two brothers and have grew up on a small sized farm. I'm 26 and work as secondary school teacher in a school 3 hours away from my home place so I can't live at home nor do I really want to be honest.

The farm was my mother's and it was pretty much what we depended on as my dad gave up his job to work on it. So all I know and experienced from the farm was a childhood of misery - constant financial trouble and a sense of being stuck - no holidays, no going away even of a Sunday, just pure financial hardship. I could never do the same things as my friends could do. I had always known that I never ever wanted anything to do with it.

I basically put myself through college and am still paying back a loan for it, so this as well as having to pay extortionate rent in the only place where I was lucky to get full time hours - I find myself really struggling ever month to keep my head over water. Last year my brothers took over the farm and my mam signed the lot over to them. Since this the farm seems to be booming - every time I come down they seem to have a new piece of machinery and we're not talking a few hundreds worth we're talking thousands. I am becoming so resentful. What's worst is when I do come down its like it's no longer my place anymore. I have yet to receive any acknowledgement of ever getting anything. Not that I wanted the farm and I know I should be delighted they're doing so well but I really can't help but feel so crap about it.


They are constantly at me to change my car - they are so far removed from the reality of my situition that I'm becoming to absolutely despise them. I know I should feel like this I should be happy for them but I can't and I don't know what to do about it.

thalia_13

Farm machinery is probably bought on loan, they also may have gotten some grants as new farmers, there are a few available to try keep farming alive in rural Ireland, but I'd not be so sure they are actually affluent as they make out to be.
Especially if they haven't made much changes to how your dad ran it. It can't have turned profitable so quickly, unless they are economic whizzes....

Nevertheless you are feeling phased out, and left out, and although you never expressed an interest, you weren't consulted. So that obviously smarts. And you are struggling to keep afloat yourself, so it's definitely jarring to see them suddenly apparently wealthy. Have your brothers taken up the farming full time??

It's an incredibly hard topic to broach with your parents, you could tell them you are struggling, they may offer to help you out. I would recommend talking to a counsellor if you can, just to fully flesh out why you are feeling this way and help you find a strategy to deal with it and maybe talk to your parents.

Try not to let the jealousy consume you, it will make you unwell, in many ways.

Take care

Airyfairy12

I'm around your age, grew up in similar circumstances, replace 'farm' with 'big dilapidated house' out the country my mother bought and moved us all into. My dad only worked for himself, earning not very much money, less than minimum wage, my mams pay wasnt much better, everything they had went on repairing the house. I grew up in second and third hand clothes too small and shoes too big. A day out was once or twice in the Summer to the amusements, we were given about a euro to play slot machines. If we went for food, usually just a chipper or a cafe, unless they came free with the meal we weren't allowed order drinks to save money. Im also the only girl between two boys. When I went to college my family gave me nothing, I didnt have a pair a shoes.. the souls were literally falling off them while they helped my brothers pay their rent, buy new parts for their computers ect. they were constantly at me to get a car and learn to drive, I couldnt afford milk. I dont know what it is with some parents and their sons, theyre more looked after and given more handouts in some families.

Have you talked to them about it? Maybe because youre working they dont realise how hard it is? My own parents seem to think this is the 1980's when you could own a house and a car on minimum wage. Teachers were seen as very respectable and well paid not so long ago, if you were a teacher you were considered upper middle class. Have they still got that mindset? do they realise how hard it is to get by even with an education and a good job? Would they listen to you?

December2012

Sounds difficult OP, I suppose your brothers had the same tough upbringing as you so they didn’t get more then.

If they are at home then they don’t have your rent bill and as another poster said, the farm machinery could be on credit or a grant.

While your title suggests your jealous of your brothers, your text suggests you’re more annoyed at your parents. Did your brothers go to college and get it paid for? Could you have taken up the farm if you had showed an interest?

Tease out what your actual frustrations are - lots of people are finding things very tough now so you’re not alone. And another poster is right - in the 80s teaching would have been thought of as a good financial industry.

Not any more unfortunately, as you well know.

I hope that you can figure it out and talk to your parents if appropriate

Big Bag of Chips

The reality is, you don't know your brothers' financial situation. Same as they don't know yours. If they have bought new machinery then it is almost certainly with a loan. If the farm is suddenly thriving it isn't down to sheer good luck and jammy timing. It's down to hard work and input from your brothers. Farming is a tough job. It's not like they are young entrepreneurs who suddenly came up with a fantastic new idea that just took off.

If you are really struggling then you need to do something to about it. You think your brothers have been handed this goldmine and are much better off than you. But they're working and it's the job they've chosen. You have a job you've chosen. If the job isn't working out for you, if the pay isn't enough to sustain you, if your accommodation is too expensive then these are all things you need to address yourself.

Very few people are flush. The early days of your working life can be tough because people have this expectation that if they're working and earning then they're sorted. What people forget is independent living comes with lots of bills that eat into your wages, and most people, especially in their 20s and 30s are struggling waiting for every payday.

You have a classic case of 'far away hills are greener'. Your family don't know your financial situation because I'm sure you don't let them see your bank statements. Also, as an adult, it is up to you to forge your own path. If you're struggling you could ask your parents/brothers for a loan if you think they could afford it, but you are not entitled to any hand out. And getting loans from your family isn't a long term solution.

I assume you are always looking for posts closer to home, in cheaper areas etc. Adult life is a struggle. It can be a shock to the system to discover you're on your own and responsible for 100% of your day to day life.

You could always speak to your brothers about the possibility of moving back home and working on the farm with them full time.

harr

I could way out on this but basically you wanted nothing to do with the farm and probably made this clear to those at home and you got out and are making your own life but struggling like us all and plenty in worse situations than ,
So your brothers take over the farm and are trying to make it successful and it looks like they are doing a good enough job and now suddenly you want to have some part it ?

It’s not like your brothers are living the high life it’s not easy trying to get any business to work and I am sure they are working all hours to keep the farm going.
I am sure if you stayed at home and expressed an interest in the farm the opportunity would have been available to run it with the family but you jumped ship when you got the chance, nothing wrong with that but should not expect anything from your brothers hard work at this stage,
Yes maybe your parents should have had discussed it with you but maybe they knew you wanted no part in the farm.

LegacyUser

I don't know if it helps, but you're far from alone in this story or versions of it.

More importantly though, it would appear that you identified the career you wanted and it wasn't farming. You went off and studied and got work and don't appear to have shown an interest in becoming a farmer. Why should you resent you family's choices when you were allowed to make your own? You could have gone to agricultural college and taken other steps, but you didn't. Own your choices.

As others have said, that machinery will be the product of grants and loans, or leases, not some financial wizardry and sudden improvement in farm fortunes. All those financial arrangements have to be serviced now and far from owing a farm, the farm owns them. If they slip up on those repayments, quite quickly none of you will own it, the bank will.
In contrast, you're free to live and work where you want with a very transferable skillset and occupation. I'd rather be in your shoes then theirs.

Permabear

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LegacyUser

Hi everyone

Many thanks for your replies. I've seen sense again and I'd pick my situation over their situation any day. Permabear - really highlights this, thank you.

If I'm honest - I think the thing that has really bothered me was how I had to put myself through college and more or less fend for myself. Whilst they got their college fees paid for them because they wanted to keep on farming and because they could drive were given cars.

And it really isn't the case that now they have the farm and seem to be making money that I want a bit of it. It just seems to be that because I simply wanted a better life and knew farming wasn't going to be for me that I was instantly cut off from having any support at all. I mean the two of them often suggest selling up the lot and house once the parents are gone.

shesty

The problem is OP you are looking at the here and now.Look long term.I know it's hard to struggle for money.Sure my own parents want me to be buying this that and the other thing and seem to have zero memory of what it's like to have two young kids, mortgage and associated bills (we are at that stage).Money is tight enough and has to be watched, I don't have the spare cash every month to be handing over 300-400eur on a loan scheme just so I can drive a brand new car.Don't get me wrong my parents are great, but honestly, I think they forget and also, times are very very different now.

As someone else said-indeed you said it yourself-you have a (slowly increasing) salary, a pensio, holidays, weekends off......in fact, the very things that you wish your parents had when you were a child.What you maybe don't realise now is that there is no value on time, and you have buckets more of it than your brothers ever will.I look at my parents (one is a teacher) and I look at a couple of farmers I know of the same age and their lives are so different.I wouldn't be the farmer, to be honest.

It is SO hard to look at siblings who appear to be doing better than you on the surface (I do know this)But you do have to learn to put things in perspective.Not everything has a monetary value and I do know that it's very tough when money is really tight, I have been there.But before you know it your loan will be paid, and a few increments and you will be better off.In fact I found living on very little means that even an extra 150 a month is quite an increase and makes you feel a lot better.

It's hard and you really have my sympathy, but honestly it is not forever.

rainbowtrout

OP, I think your anger is misplaced.

I'm a teacher myself. Granted you are on the new payscale if you are only out of college a few years, but if you are on full hours you will do ok in the end. You will eventually clear your college loan and you will have extra money. You will climb the payscale and eventually have a bit extra in your pocket.

Your brothers appear to be doing a good job with the farm from your perspective. Remember a few things: new machinery costs thousands, given that one of your brothers is younger than you, it is highly unlikely any of that machinery was bought without a loan, some pieces of farm machinery cost as much as a house.

You said it's a small farm, and it was always a struggle growing up. Your brothers might be very good at farm managment, and if they have managed to turn the farm around to be successful, more power to them. But at the end of the day, unless they try and buy or rent more land (more costs and loans) they will be limited to how much livestock they can keep/crops they can harvest. The farm now has to support two mens wages.

Presumably both of your brothers live at home with your parents still living on the farm. There are disadvantages to that too. What happens down the line if one of your brothers wants to get married? Will the other one have to move out? Will they all live under one roof? Will the farm support one if not two potential families in the future? Will your brothers be responsible for the care of your parents, is that part of the deal? Will your parents live on the farm for their retirement? How will they split the small farm in the future, if they find in the long term it's not enough to support the livelihood of two adults?

There are more rows about land, and farms and inheritance in particular, and honestly, while it might not look like it now, you are probably better off out of the situation. You might be looking at it as them having acquired land and a house, but realistically and most likely, they have also taken on a lot of debt

Ursus Horribilis

Your post is coming across to me as being long on emotion and short on fact. It's understandable that you're angry and frustrated at your lot. Young teachers starting out now really have been shafted. You're on a lower starting wage, rents have never been higher and the pension isn't as gold-plated as people seem to think. And then on top of that you've got that loan to pay off. When you're existing from paycheque to paycheque, it's very easy to feel down in yourself and to think other people are doing better than you.

There are farmers in my family and to be honest, what you've said about your family farm doesn't add up to me. You said the place "seems to be booming". How do you know it actually is? As the others have already mentioned, it's quite likely that the bank owns all that shiny machinery and that your brothers have modernised in order to try and make a go of the farm. Your view of farming is coloured by your upbringing - it sounds a bit like Angela's Ashes with cow dung. Another thought that occurred to me is that your brothers might be over-compensating for the life they had growing up and have spent too much money on this machinery. I hope for their sake that it works out for them because farming can be very precarious. A few dead animals or the creamery/factory cutting the prices they pay and you're up sh*t creek.

I get the impression that you're quite resentful of your upbringing and what you never got to have or enjoy. And that you had to fund your way through college. I think that is an awful shame. Anybody who manages to achieve what you did should be proud of themselves. Your bitterness is stopping you from seeing this. I also think you are being over-sensitive about the changing the car comments. If you were less insecure and bitter about your own situation, you'd probably laugh it off instead of getting angry about it. And you should be laughing it off.

The_Honeybadger

Op I had a similar upbringing and am so glad to be away from that life that I find your situation hard to countenance. I used to be up at 6.30am and had nearly two hours of farm work done before school, and used to do several hours after school as well. It was utter misery and I hated every minute of it. Like yourself, I had no holidays, days out or after school activities, and generally nothing to look forward to throughout my entire childhood. The one major difference is that we weren’t as badly off financially. Its a big farm and I have a younger brother that really took to farming and is now running it and doing very well with it. We get on well, I am happy for him, and I have also done well in my education and career thankfully, as have all my other siblings.

Op if you are teaching with full hours then I guarantee you that in the long run you will be much better off than your brothers, unless it’s a very sizeable farm (I don’t think it is going by your post). Banks can be loose with farmers because they have assets, that doesn’t mean the farm is booming. The dairy sector is doing ok for the moment but almost all other sectors are struggling and it’s a very volatile industry.

As somebody said above your salary will increase over time and you will clear your loans eventually. The first couple of years working are always tough but you’d be surprised how quickly things might improve for you. If money is that tight start keeping a spending diary and see where you might cut back and pay those loans down quicker. Be thankful that you are away from that early life now and can make your own choices. There is an undertone of genral unhappiness in your post, I hope things work out for you.

NinetyTwoTeam

You said yourself you wanted nothing to do with it so chose another path. I don't blame you for your that, but it's a bit unfair to begrudge your brothers turning it around with their hard work.

If the farm was failing would you have jumped in to help?

Permabear

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Balmed Out

My mother would have come from a similar situation but would have a different view. Her younger brother inherited the farm as well as the house and savings.
She would be of the opinion that emotionally he never had a choice but to do it while she as a daughter was free to make her own choices and forge her own career. He was raised under an expectation that made it impossible for him to do anything other than take over the farm which he viewed as a responsibility more so than a windfall.

rainbowtrout

Balmed Out wrote: »

My mother would have come from a similar situation but would have a different view. Her younger brother inherited the farm as well as the house and savings.
She would be of the opinion that emotionally he never had a choice but to do it while she as a daughter was free to make her own choices and forge her own career. He was raised under an expectation that made it impossible for him to do anything other than take over the farm which he viewed as a responsibility more so than a windfall.

I'd agree with all of this and what Permabear said about the unfairness of you getting nothing if the long term plan is to sell up.

But, it would also suggest that the farm is not viable in the long run for your brothers to maintain a living from if they plan to sell up. Now it might have worked out handy for them having college paid for essentially on the condition that they take over the farm afterwards, but you don't know how long your parents will live, you don't say how old they are but even if they are in their 60s, they could easily live another 20 years. Are your brothers going to work on a small farm for another 20 years, essentially tied to the land because your parents live there? Can they sell up while they are still alive?


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/average-family-farm-income-down-9-to-24-060-1.3102770


Have a look at this report from only 6 months ago. Average farm income in Ireland is €24,000 per year. The average single farm payment is €18,000 with that making up most of the income on the bulk of farms. Most farms would go to the wall without the payment making up the majority of the income. If yours is a small farm like you describe, it probably fits into that category.

If your brothers are managing to even hit average income, it's not a lot of money between them really is it? That's not even taking into account loans on machinery or land.

Have a look at the price of tractors on done deal as an example. A decent 10 year old tractor will set you back somewhere between 30-40k. They're not exactly cheap.

You will struggle for a few years until you move a few points up the payscale and clear your loans, I'd bet that your brothers will always struggle to maintain a decent income for both of them from a small farm, without having to take second jobs. They are also tied to the land in the long run.

Consider grinds or correcting exams next summer if you need a little extra income.

Permabear

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Sunny Dayz

I agree that emotions are getting the better of you.
Do you know whether your brothers actually wanted to go into farming or was it just expected of them? Certainly in farming communities the male is expected from a young age to take over the farm. You grew up on the farm, you know what it's like, very few farmers are rolling in it. If they are under 35 they would be entitled to grants, tax reliefs etc to help out young trained farmers. But I can't imagine they have turned around the farm in just one year, a year is quite short in farming terms. Famers work all day everyday, although Sunday is still generally considered a day of rest, if they are calving or lambing then throw in nights too. The likes of new machinery are funded by finance agreements, new livestock by stocking loans. If the farm could barely support your family growing up, do you think your brothers can both earn a decent living for themselves from it, as well as any family they might have themselves in future and whilst also maintaining your parents?


You are a qualified teacher, it is going to take a bit of time to advance your career. Would you consider going abroad for a year to somewhere like Dubai for a change of scenery, some experience and extra earnings.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

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Nursing home care for your parent should be covered by the state if they have no means.

In fact many farms and houses get signed over for this very reason. If the farm/house is retained then it is subject to the fair deal scheme and the government will be able to fund the care by taking a percentage of the house and farm (though it's changing soon that farms have to be more or less left alone). However if parent sign over their house and farm then they have no assets so the gov have to pay for their care and they aren't able to rob a percentage of their assets. It's good financial planning to off load assets before things like nursing homes are required.

johnnyskeleton

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I dont know what it is with some parents and their sons, theyre more looked after and given more handouts in some families.

I dont think bringing gender into this is helpful for the OP. She made a rational decision which was correct at the time which put her ahead of her brothers and is now tying to figure out how to deal with their new success. Perfectly understandable and nothing to do with her being a victim of a grand conspiracy against girls.

As to the OP, its always difficult to come to terms with scenarios like this. Part of the problem is that if you become used to one status, its hard when that status changes. But i think with time you will adjust. As regards it not feeling like your home any more, maybe you could try to spend more time there on a more regular basis and let it be known that you enjoy going back there at the weekends etc? Try to avoid any sudden or dramatic changes and just focus on having as happy a time with your family there as you can!

Teyla Emmagan

johnnyskeleton wrote:

I dont think bringing gender into this is helpful for the OP. She made a rational decision which was correct at the time which put her ahead of her brothers and is now tying to figure out how to deal with their new success. Perfectly understandable and nothing to do with her being a victim of a grand conspiracy against girls.

No, it's not an imaginary conspiracy. It's something that still occurs in Irish farming families. The lads get the assets and the girls are expected to look after themselves by marrying.

But anyway OP. You don't know what will happen when your parents actually pass away. And most importantly for the time being, you got out. You're not tied to the place anymore. You have found yourself a career and have a fresh start. Why are you looking backwards? Who cares what your brothers have. It may not be fair, but at the same time they're stuck there. Maybe it's a payoff to keep them around.

You need to shake off this resentment. You don't sound like you like the farm very much so just see yourself as having got the better deal. You may have it tougher financially but you are a self made woman at the same time. You may not have a new car but you had nothing handed to you either. Be proud and positive.

rainbowtrout

Alia Strong Gold wrote: »

Nursing home care for your parent should be covered by the state if they have no means.

In fact many farms and houses get signed over for this very reason. If the farm/house is retained then it is subject to the fair deal scheme and the government will be able to fund the care by taking a percentage of the house and farm (though it's changing soon that farms have to be more or less left alone). However if parent sign over their house and farm then they have no assets so the gov have to pay for their care and they aren't able to rob a percentage of their assets. It's good financial planning to off load assets before things like nursing homes are required.

True, but there might have been an agreement that the parents would remain on the farm for the rest of their lives and that the sons would take care of them. They might have signed over believing that their home was secure for the future. They might get an awful shock in 2-3 years if they find that the sons sell up and they are homeless.

Also there is a look back rule where the farmers assets are looked at over the previous 5 years for assessment for state support for nursing home care, so if the sons sold up quickly, the parents might find they are not eligible for state support.

__..__

My parents owned a pub and split up. My mum got the lot and we lived in the pub,.or should.i say slaved in it.

I left home at 16 and put myself through school and college and my siblings stayed home and helped mum with the pub.

Roll on a few years and she has a new boyfriend and now his 3 sons have moved nearby and they are working in the pub. All nice lads. So my brothers have come to me and said that the other 3 sons are moving in on the pub, they are already acting like they own it and they want me to talk to mum as they think she has put them in the will.
So I wondered what to do here.
I told them.i would have a chat with mum and I did. But all I said to her was be happy and I don't want a thing from your will because I will end up fighting with everyone and I'm fine myself. I didn't have the heart to tell her what the siblings had said.
Somthen they asked me what mum said and I said she didn't say anything and I just said cut me out of the will and give anything she was going to me to my siblings. They couldn't believe their luck, but all the fighting over my mum's grave now will be done by others and I'm happy with that.

So op if I were you I would feel lucky.

rainbowtrout

rainbowtrout wrote: »

True, but there might have been an agreement that the parents would remain on the farm for the rest of their lives and that the sons would take care of them. They might have signed over believing that their home was secure for the future. They might get an awful shock in 2-3 years if they find that the sons sell up and they are homeless.

There is no indication whatsoever that they will sell so I don't know why it's being disscussed. Selling a family farm or land is something that virtually no farmer does, it would be almost unheard of for sons to sell a farm that's likely been in the family for generations. Leasing happens (hence the introduction of an exemption from income tax on leased land to encourage it) but selling, especially small farms is very very rare.

The op hasn't said it but I would expect that her brothers have off farm jobs and farm part-time/as a side business. This is the common why that many farms are run nowadays.

__..__ wrote: »

My parents owned a pub and split up. My mum got the lot and we lived in the pub,.or should.i say slaved in it....

Have to say I'd be 100% on your siblings side here, I'd not stand for step-siblings thinking they can butt in on a family business. I wouldn't be getting someone else to do my talking though I'd just raise the issue myself.

rainbowtrout

Farm resentment wrote: »

I mean the two of them often suggest selling up the lot and house once the parents are gone.

The OP herself posted this.


I live in Roscommon, a rural county with lots of farm land and I regularly see agricultural land/farms up for sale. It's not exactly rare.

rainbowtrout

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The OP herself posted this.


I live in Roscommon, a rural county with lots of farm land and I regularly see agricultural land/farms up for sale. It's not exactly rare.

Apologies I missed that comment from the op.

Selling land is almost unheard off (aide from some sites for those with road frontage) in my area. Yes there is an odd piece that comes up but it's often land owned by say a bachelor with no close family etc and it gets sold of by more distant relatives etc.

The_Conductor

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The OP herself posted this.


I live in Roscommon, a rural county with lots of farm land and I regularly see agricultural land/farms up for sale. It's not exactly rare.

Its not rare anymore- but as someone who worked as an agricultural contractor 20 years ago- I can tell you- it was always toss a coin whether our machinery had been destroyed when we came in on a Monday morning...........

As for the pension that a few people have alluded to for the OP- the bulk of it is the contributory old age pension- its this way for any public sector employees since 1995. It is not this amazing multi-million pension pot that some people imagine it to be- it is a defined pension- yes, but 50% of career average earnings- reduced by a formula known as COPC- and keep in mind the contributory old age pension is vesting at older and older ages- there is talk of it being 70 before 2030- with a pension time bomb to hit by 2025-2026- not even in 10 years time..........

The sale of the family farm (or rather the transfer to offspring) akin to any assets disposed by anyone (its not just farming)- is counted as an asset for 5 years after the fact. Aka- the parents could be destitute- and have no right to state assistance, save the 'farmers-pension'..........

I can see both sides of the equation on this- and amn't totally enthralled with the situation the brothers on the farm are in- or the position of the OP- where she is barely keeping her head above the water.

Personally- I would rather be the OP- than her siblings- however, I'd much rather be the other poster in this thread who is a financial advisor stateside...... There are pros and cons to all of this- and it is only natural for people to imagine the grass is greener on the other side- well, very often, it isn't.

As someone who grew up in Ireland in the 1970s and 1980s- the era of living in second and third hand clothes, shoes that were too big, and no money to speak of- were experienced by the vast bulk of the polulace- it was by no means farmers children (or any other category of worker)- who was in this situation. We were lucky- we got a parcel from our uncles and aunts in the US regularly with the clothes their kids no longer fit or wanted- the colours and fits might have been garish and badly fitting- but they were clothes- and it was like Christmas anytime a parcel arrived.

I hope the OP has a permanent post with fulltime hours- and makes the most out of the relative freedom she has- I'd much rather be her than one of the brothers- expensive farm machinery notwithstanding.

We all get dealt different hands of cards in life- its a measure of us as people- what we do with our hand of cards- its an exercise in futility and a waste of time- to look at what others have- and spend time pondering the 'what-ifs'..........

Neyite

Permabear wrote: »

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...and daughters are then often expected to jack it all in to come home and become a full time carer when the need arises for either parents, because understandably the parents don't want to move into a nursing home. So beware of that OP.

OP, you dodged a bullet. It's almost certain that your brothers have weighed themselves down with debt, tied for a lifetime to a farm that historically has underperformed, will be working 7 days a week, long hours for unguaranteed returns and when wives/ children/ ageing come into the mix years down the line, you will be very glad to be out of it with your nice job earning a comfortable amount with lots of annual leave.

Just don't get sucked back in a couple of decades down the line to give it all up to be your parent's carer, because you'll have no financial security whatsoever.