What do you think is the most useful language to know in Ireland?

DefinitelyMarc

Including whatever frameworks/libraries/etc are related to that language, of course (So JMS for Java, Rails for Ruby, and so on).

I'm curious to see what people think would be of most benefit to a software developer in Ireland today.

I myself am mainly a Java developer. I've used a good few different languages over the years, but Java is definitely the one I'm most comfortable with and it seems popular.

I'd consider Java to be the best for finding a job, as it seems like most companies have built their software with Java. That also means that there's plenty of competition however, so you can't exactly demand a high price unless you're particularly brilliant or serve a niche.

Of course if someone was a Scala expert instead, they might have a harder time landing a job. But if they were the absolute bee's knee's at functional programming, they could command a much higher price than the best Java developers around. Since at the end of the day you only need one job, I can see the appeal of this specialization.

Python is another interesting one, as it allows you to branch out into data science. Even more specialization and money

What do ye think?

14ned

DefinitelyMarc wrote: »

Python is another interesting one, as it allows you to branch out into data science. Even more specialization and money

As I've been finding out the hard way this past year, Ireland is a shallow, shallow pool for specialisation. You'll reach a certain point of specialisation where remote contracting is literally the only game in town if you want to remain here, and then if all remote work in your specialisation dries up globally due to external factors - cough Brexit cough Trump cough - you will be quite unemployable in Ireland.

I am pleased to say I just landed a bottom end code monkey contract onsite in Dublin which will tide us over for the next twelve months. Took a hefty day rate decrease to get it, plus the work is literally "fix bugs on the issue tracker for this legacy codebase" all day, every day. And even then, I squeezed out a dozen other people competing for the same role. But this is just the second non-medical-devices contract I've seen anywhere in Ireland since June. Must be a lot of people hurting out there, my fixed costs base is a third of someone living in Dublin.

Specialisation-local recessions really suck But you just gotta ride them out, and pray your contract ends around when the market rebounds and day rates shoot over €600/day. Locking one of those in for twelve months is nice money (for Ireland).

Niall

Sheeps

Java + Spring framework.

server down

14ned wrote: »

As I've been finding out the hard way this past year, Ireland is a shallow, shallow pool for specialisation. You'll reach a certain point of specialisation where remote contracting is literally the only game in town if you want to remain here, and then if all remote work in your specialisation dries up globally due to external factors - cough Brexit cough Trump cough - you will be quite unemployable in Ireland.

I am pleased to say I just landed a bottom end code monkey contract onsite in Dublin which will tide us over for the next twelve months. Took a hefty day rate decrease to get it, plus the work is literally "fix bugs on the issue tracker for this legacy codebase" all day, every day. And even then, I squeezed out a dozen other people competing for the same role. But this is just the second non-medical-devices contract I've seen anywhere in Ireland since June. Must be a lot of people hurting out there, my fixed costs base is a third of someone living in Dublin.

Specialisation-local recessions really suck But you just gotta ride them out, and pray your contract ends around when the market rebounds and day rates shoot over €600/day. Locking one of those in for twelve months is nice money (for Ireland).

Niall

It looks like since Irish companies can hire from anywhere in Europe (and basically there are no real restrictions on visas) that it is in fact very competitive out there at the moment.

14ned

server down wrote: »

It looks like since Irish companies can hire from anywhere in Europe (and basically there are no real restrictions on visas) that it is in fact very competitive out there at the moment.

I don't think the ability to hire from abroad has anything to do with it. And besides you don't need a visa to work in Ireland if you are an EU citizen.

In my niche specialism, C++, there are far more workers looking for work than there is work available in Ireland right now. Hence day rates being down 20% over a year or two ago, and they appear to be still dropping.

The point I was making to the OP is that sure, more specialisation nominally means higher pay, but it also makes finding work much more sticky in Ireland because we don't have the market depth that other countries do. If you specialise here, you need to be prepared to emigrate to somewhere with more liquid markets, otherwise you need to accept periods of unemployment approaching a year or so, which obviously rather offsets those higher earnings.

Thus, if you wish to stay in Ireland, it might not be wise to specialise down a technical track. Better to specialise into management, so go take a Management qualification part time, move up to Director and upwards into the org. Much better chance of earning more, and remaining employable.

Niall

server down

14ned wrote: »

I don't think the ability to hire from abroad has anything to do with it. And besides you don't need a visa to work in Ireland if you are an EU citizen.

In my niche specialism, C++, there are far more workers looking for work than there is work available in Ireland right now. Hence day rates being down 20% over a year or two ago, and they appear to be still dropping.

The point I was making to the OP is that sure, more specialisation nominally means higher pay, but it also makes finding work much more sticky in Ireland because we don't have the market depth that other countries do. If you specialise here, you need to be prepared to emigrate to somewhere with more liquid markets, otherwise you need to accept periods of unemployment approaching a year or so, which obviously rather offsets those higher earnings.

Thus, if you wish to stay in Ireland, it might not be wise to specialise down a technical track. Better to specialise into management, so go take a Management qualification part time, move up to Director and upwards into the org. Much better chance of earning more, and remaining employable.

Niall

The UK seems to have lots of positions, although I know you said brexit was an issue. Is it an issue yet though?

14ned

server down wrote: »

The UK seems to have lots of positions, although I know you said brexit was an issue. Is it an issue yet though?

Finance has been seeing a flight of talent in high end C++ work recently. So definitely yes, lots of open positions. Good pay too, £750/day upwards. They just can't find the people right now.

If I could work there, I would, but the flights to and from Cork are just slightly at the wrong times. I am on full time child care during the weekends see, so I can't leave until after 6pm Sunday. The great advantage of Dublin is that I can drive.

Niall

Manach

One's mileage may vary, but as OP said I've found python to have a wide range of applicability & usage depending on what sort of situation is present.

srsly78

English.

matrim

14ned wrote: »

As I've been finding out the hard way this past year, Ireland is a shallow, shallow pool for specialisation. You'll reach a certain point of specialisation where remote contracting is literally the only game in town if you want to remain here, and then if all remote work in your specialisation dries up globally due to external factors - cough Brexit cough Trump cough - you will be quite unemployable in Ireland.

I am pleased to say I just landed a bottom end code monkey contract onsite in Dublin which will tide us over for the next twelve months. Took a hefty day rate decrease to get it, plus the work is literally "fix bugs on the issue tracker for this legacy codebase" all day, every day. And even then, I squeezed out a dozen other people competing for the same role. But this is just the second non-medical-devices contract I've seen anywhere in Ireland since June. Must be a lot of people hurting out there, my fixed costs base is a third of someone living in Dublin.

Specialisation-local recessions really suck But you just gotta ride them out, and pray your contract ends around when the market rebounds and day rates shoot over €600/day. Locking one of those in for twelve months is nice money (for Ireland).

Niall

Contracting is different to full time. You would have no problem getting a full time C++ if you wanted. From you other posts it seems you are looking for a few other specific things e.g. remote contracting.

14ned

matrim wrote: »

Contracting is different to full time. You would have no problem getting a full time C++ if you wanted. From you other posts it seems you are looking for a few other specific things e.g. remote contracting.

Remote contracting in C++ is tough going at the best of times, but living in Ireland with Brexit looming is a black mark against hiring me over someone else on the planet living somewhere with less uncertainty in the minds of the client.

It's also a pay thing. Nowhere in Ireland pays anything close to what I earn in a good year. And it's also a freedom thing. Between contracts I work on ISO standards stuff. Permanent employees in Ireland don't get 20% time to work on that stuff like my colleagues in the US do.

If an employer here in Ireland came somewhat close on pay, and gave me 20% time to work on ISO standards, and let me work at least three days remote, I'd have no problem working there long term. I am unaware of any that exist though, not even potentially. The Irish tech scene isn't built that way.

Niall