E-Bike Etiquette

Etc

Sorry if this might be a silly question.

On the verge of pulling the trigger on one of these for a daily commute. I 'll be heading into the city center. I know there's unwritten rules about queuing at lights but having test ridden a few, the torque really takes you off the lights quickly, is it ok to come around people quickly (safely) or get into line and overtake progressively ?

I have a high cadence anyway and a would tend to accelerate quickly up to speed on my road bike.

Lumen

If you go around you'll end up in the middle of the pedestrian crossing.

Etc

Lumen wrote: »

If you go around you'll end up in the middle of the pedestrian crossing.

?

Plastik

Get into line and overtake progressively (safely).

death1234567

Etc wrote: »

is it ok to come around people quickly (safely) or get into line and overtake progressively?

That's the whole point. Drop the hammer on that bad boy and keep her lit', preferably while flipping off anyone left in your wake.

Etc

death1234567 wrote: »

That's the whole point. Drop the hammer on that bad boy and keep her lit', preferably while flipping off anyone left in your wake.

I'm not a pr1ck, that's why I'm asking for some advice as I've not commuted by bike before.

Zen0

No, it's not OK to salmon past everyone on the assumption that you are going to be faster on the off, at least not if you don't want to piss off fit cyclists. Just because you are on an ebike doesn't mean there are not cyclists in that queue who are faster than you.

Edit: just read your question again, and maybe you are asking if it's OK to move past other cyclists once the lights go green. I think that depends on whether you can do it safely without compromising your own or other cyclists' safety. But beware of assuming that those in front of you haven't the same intention. Also be aware that most ebikes I have seen top out at relatively modest speeds. A fit cyclist may be faster. If you charge past someone on the off, good manners suggests you should be able to stay ahead of them, which is another reason for passing when the traffic is up to full speed.

Etc

Zen0 wrote: »

No, it's not OK to salmon past everyone on the assumption that you are going to be faster on the off, at least not if you don't want to piss off fit cyclists. Just because you are on an ebike doesn't mean there are not cyclists in that queue who are faster than you.

So you're making an assumption I'm not a fit cyclist. I've just said I haven't commuted before. What I have said that there is an initial torque boost with an e bike and as per the title I'm asking about the right etiquette, I don't want to piss anyone off, I just want to go to town on my bike with the minimum of fuss for me and the rest of the world.

There's no need to be angry !

Zen0

Why do you assume I'm angry? You asked a question and I gave a reply.

Etc

Zen0 wrote: »

Why do you assume I'm angry? You asked a question and I gave a reply.

Tone has a lot to do with it, plus you've made an assumption about me with not context to do so.

crosstownk

As someone stated earlier, no need to salmon.

Stop at the lights and take your place in the queue. Once everything starts moving again then pass those that are slower when it's safe to do so. Although the odds are that those you pass will salmon you at the next set of lights. Head wrecking stuff.

martyc5674

Salmon?!... WTF!!

Etc

crosstownk wrote: »

As someone stated earlier, no need to salmon.

Stop at the lights and take your place in the queue. Once everything starts moving again then pass those that are slower when it's safe to do so.

Thanks, really appreciate the response, that's exactly what I wanted to know. And just for context I've been riding road bikes for 35 years, I've moved to a city centeroffice in the last 6 months and we're selling the car so my bike will my primary mode of transport in the future for commuting and touring.

I see some crazy commuting walking through the city in the mornings, cars, public transport, Peds, motorcycles and bikes. As my main interaction will be with cyclists in cycle lanes I want to know the best way to get along.

Plastik

As a matter of interest, if you have a road bike why don't you just commute on that? You will be as fast, and you will get fitter. I've come across some eBikes that are properly quick, but if you have a legal one while you might have quick acceleration you have a very low elec-assisted top speed of about 25kph. Others, I know, will do about 40kph. Where they are being sourced I don't know. A good few eBike commuters that I regularly see cycle like absolute plonkers, jumping lights, jumping on and off footpaths, jumping queues. Don't be that guy.

crosstownk

I suppose in a nutshell, ebike etiquette is no different to bike etiquette.

Etc

Plastik wrote: »

As a matter of interest, if you have a road bike why don't you just commute on that? You will be as fast, and you will get fitter. I've come across some eBikes that are properly quick, but if you have a legal one while you might have quick acceleration you have a very low elec-assisted top speed of about 25kph. Others, I know, will do about 40kph. Where they are being sourced I don't know. A good few eBike commuters that I regularly see cycle like absolute plonkers, jumping lights, jumping on and off footpaths, jumping queues. Don't be that guy.

You can purchase a fast e bike from main dealers in Dublin. And in fairness you can apply the plonker moniker to a lot of cycling groups in the city centre. I might get shot but there are a lot of Dublin bike users who don't know what a traffic light is never mind a one way street.

I'm buying one for several reasons, the car is being sold tomorrow, I want to cycle all year round and on the days where it's particularly sh1tty, I think the assist will encourage me to get on the bike rather than using public transport. I want to be able to use it if I have meetings across town, I don't want to turn up dripping in sweat, so I'm looking at it as a complete move to 2 wheels.

crosstownk

martyc5674 wrote: »

Salmon?!... WTF!!

I may have confused salmoning with shoaling.......

martyc5674

crosstownk wrote: »

I may have confused salmoning with shoaling.......

I think you confused the cycling forum with the fishing forum.

mrcheez

Etc wrote: »

Sorry if this might be a silly question.

On the verge of pulling the trigger on one of these for a daily commute. I 'll be heading into the city center. I know there's unwritten rules about queuing at lights but having test ridden a few, the torque really takes you off the lights quickly, is it ok to come around people quickly (safely) or get into line and overtake progressively ?

I have a high cadence anyway and a would tend to accelerate quickly up to speed on my road bike.

If there is a designated "bike zone" at the traffic lights, move out into the middle of that taking your position at the front alongside the others.

If not, then proceed as far as you can up the queue to the traffic light.

eeeee

Don't shoal. It's unnecessary
Queue in behind cyclists that are already there.
Bike is a bike, regular etiquette applies.

crosstownk

martyc5674 wrote: »

I think you confused the cycling forum with the fishing forum.

No doubt they discuss Shimano there too

mrcheez

nee wrote: »

Don't shoal. It's unnecessary

I'm sure this is controversial comment in this forum but an experienced cyclist can tend to accurately predict whether or not he will be fastest off the mark by looking at who is at the traffic lights already.

A kid dressed out in jeans on a mountain bike, or someone on a Dutchie with a shopping basket at the front, etc etc ... if they are at the front and there is a bike zone space free at the front of the traffic and you know that you will be faster off the mark and not have to overtake in heavy traffic then by all means move up to the front alongside the others.
It makes it easier for everyone as you can get back into the bike lane quickly and not have to risk moving out into traffic seconds after you start moving.

If you don't think you will be faster, or if there isn't an allocated space for bikes at the traffic lights then wait in line.

Etc

mrcheez wrote: »

I'm sure this is controversial comment in this forum but an experienced cyclist can tend to accurately predict whether or not he will be fastest off the mark by looking at who is at the traffic lights already.

A kid dressed out in jeans on a mountain bike, or someone on a Dutchie with a shopping basket at the front, etc etc ... if they are at the front and there is a bike zone space free at the front of the traffic and you know that you will be faster off the mark and not have to overtake in heavy traffic then by all means move up to the front alongside the others.
It makes it easier for everyone as you can get back into the bike lane quickly and not have to risk moving out into traffic seconds after you start moving.

If you don't think you will be faster, or if there isn't an allocated space for bikes at the traffic lights then wait in line.

This is exactly what I was trying to articulate with my question and my perspective on a commute. Thank you mrcheez !

Grassey

mrcheez wrote:

A kid dressed out in jeans on a mountain bike, or someone on a Dutchie with a shopping basket at the front, etc etc ... if they are at the front and there is a bike zone space free at the front of the traffic and you know that you will be faster off the mark and not have to overtake in heavy traffic then by all means move up to the front alongside the others. It makes it easier for everyone as you can get back into the bike lane quickly and not have to risk moving out into traffic seconds after you start moving.

I've been caught out a few times by lads in jeans blowing me out of it on the green. Big lads too. Wouldn't have expected it from looking at them. I've since given up, just queue, over take when I can, then have slower cyclists breeze through red lights for me to overtake again.. Until the next lights.... And repeat...

Plastik

Etc wrote: »

This is exactly what I was trying to articulate with my question and my perspective on a commute. Thank you mrcheez !

You asked about etiquette, and etiquette says queue With the ePower you will have no trouble overtaking anyone slower than you when the lights go green, and you won't look like a plonker in the meantime. Don't be looking for some confirmation bias by what some other posters do!

ted1

Lumen wrote: »

If you go around you'll end up in the middle of the pedestrian crossing.

Or in the advance bike box

eeeee

mrcheez wrote: »

I'm sure this is controversial comment in this forum but an experienced cyclist can tend to accurately predict whether or not he will be fastest off the mark by looking at who is at the traffic lights already.

A kid dressed out in jeans on a mountain bike, or someone on a Dutchie with a shopping basket at the front, etc etc ... if they are at the front and there is a bike zone space free at the front of the traffic and you know that you will be faster off the mark and not have to overtake in heavy traffic then by all means move up to the front alongside the others.
It makes it easier for everyone as you can get back into the bike lane quickly and not have to risk moving out into traffic seconds after you start moving.

If you don't think you will be faster, or if there isn't an allocated space for bikes at the traffic lights then wait in line.

Except you can't. I commute in a dress on an old 10 speed, I get shoaled ALL the time, and I'm quicker than 90% of the guys* (another women has yet to do it to me) who shoal me. It pisses mt the fcuk off. It's unnecessary, it's wanky, and it costs nothing to wait behind and pass when it's safe.
If there's an asl hop in there and tear away to your hearts content. But if there isn't, and there's a queue, wait behind. Any other course of action is being a dick IMO.

*ETA Taking off in particular. I also don't commute in rush hour

Etc

Plastik wrote: »

You asked about etiquette, and etiquette says queue With the ePower you will have no trouble overtaking anyone slower than you when the lights go green, and you won't look like a plonker in the meantime. Don't be looking for some confirmation bias by what some other posters do!

But experience and road sense has to come into it surely ? So going back to first principals, there is more that one type of cycle commuter around town. I think that's what mrcheez put his finger on.

I can recognise an experienced cyclist immediately. And tbh, it's experienced commuters that I'd be concerned about p1issing off. But where I'm coming from is, I rock up to the lights in a line of 6 cyclists, 2 of whom are on on their phones or chatting to their mate, will blipping around them following the flow of experienced commuters be ok. And tbh, I think I'm answering my own question here but there can't be a hard and fast rule !

eeeee

Etc wrote: »

But experience and road sense has to come into it surely ? So going back to first principals, there is more that one type of cycle commuter around town. I think that's what mrcheez put his finger on.

I can recognise an experienced cyclist immediately. And tbh, it's experienced commuters that I'd be concerned about p1issing off. But where I'm coming from is, I rock up to the lights in a line of 6 cyclists, 2 of whom are on on their phones or chatting to their mate, will blipping around them following the flow of experienced commuters be ok. And tbh, I think I'm answering my own question here but there can't be a hard and fast rule !

You actually can't always tell who's an experienced commuter or not though. And why only those you perceive to be experienced cyclists deserve not to be pissed off? Why are the only ones who matter? We're all cyclists, surely everyone is worth your consideration?

Etc

nee wrote: »

Except you can't. I commute in a dress on an old 10 speed, I get shoaled ALL the time, and I'm quicker than 90% of the guys* (another women has yet to do it to me) who shoal me. It pisses mt the fcuk off. It's unnecessary, it's wanky, and it costs nothing to wait behind and pass when it's safe.
If there's an asl hop in there and tear away to your hearts content. But if there isn't, and there's a queue, wait behind. Any other course of action is being a dick IMO.

*ETA Taking off in particular. I also don't commute in rush hour

So to my question, if you look at the people who shoal you, is there a pattern, are they seasoned commuters ? Dublin bike commuters, deliveroo cyclists, couriers, because I think it has a bearing on how people will ride.

eeeee

Etc wrote: »

So to my question, if you look at the people who shoal you, is there a pattern, are they seasoned commuters ? Dublin bike commuters, deliveroo cyclists, couriers, because I think it has a bearing on how people will ride.

I can't tell who's a seasoned commuter or not without speaking to them and finding out how much they do/have done.
I do know that seasoned commuters come in all shapes and sizes, and bike types, so you can't judge one from that alone.

I get shoaled by every type of cyclist, all of the above. The only one I haven't been shoaled by are women.

There are dicks who shoal and decent people who don't. There's no need for it.

I've never had a bother getting by a slower person after lights no matter what bike I'm on. It's a bit annoying in some places, like the canal where you're stuck behind for ages.

Shoaling is a dick move, end of.

Grassey

nee wrote:

I get shoaled by every type of cyclist, all of the above. The only one I haven't been shoaled by are women.

Not missing out on much. Just like guys.

Zen0

With the exception of mrcheez, the general trend in the replies seems to be don't shoal. You don't seem to want to hear that.

Etc

nee wrote: »

You actually can't always tell who's an experienced commuter or not though. And why only those you perceive to be experienced cyclists deserve not to be pissed off? Why are the only ones who matter? We're all cyclists, surely everyone is worth your consideration?

I think you can usually tell an experienced cyclist by their roadcraft and instinct for survival.

Statistically if I decide to commute I'm going to encounter people I see daily i.e. regular commuters.

I'll also have many random encounters. I treat everybody with the same respect and I believe in live and let live but there is a a percentage of cyclists in Dublin who have no awareness, regarding themselves or anyone else. So other than practicing self survival, why would I show them respect

Canis Lupus

I thought when commuting you must always assume you're the fastest badass on the road. Eyeball the other f*ckers in lycra into submission.

Plastik

I commute 23km each way into Dublin city centre daily, all year round. As an "experienced" cyclist I queue. I invariably pass everyone at ease when the lights to green and we're on the move. With ePower you will be able to do the same.

It is absolutely not discernibly less dangerous to have to do that than it is to jump to the front of the queue because you "assume" that you're going to be faster than everyone else.

nee wrote: »

Shoaling is a dick move, end of.

I could type a further long reply, but that's the crux of it. You can justify any other action any way you want, but for most people that see you doing it that's how it is.

Etc

Plastik wrote: »

I commute 23km each way into Dublin city centre daily, all year round. As an "experienced" cyclist I queue. I invariably pass everyone at ease when the lights to green and we're on the move. With ePower you will be able to do the same.

It is absolutely not discernibly less dangerous to have to do that than it is to jump to the front of the queue because you "assume" that you're going to be faster than everyone else.



I could type a further long reply, but that's the crux of it. You can justify any other action any way you want, but for most people that see you doing it that's how it is.

Is that a general post or directed at someone ?

eeeee

Grassey wrote: »

Not missing out on much. Just like guys.

I fully expect it to happen tomorrow :pac:

Etc wrote: »

I think you can usually tell an experienced cyclist by their roadcraft and instinct for survival.

Statistically if I decide to commute I'm going to encounter people I see daily i.e. regular commuters.

I'll also have many random encounters. I treat everybody with the same respect and I believe in live and let live but there is a a percentage of cyclists in Dublin who have no awareness, regarding themselves or anyone else. So other than practicing self survival, why would I show them respect

Nope, again not always obvious. I race with people who've been at it for years yet are all over the place and a danger/do stupid things. I also do stupid things, all the time!
You also have people who do it immediately 'right', but they aren't seasoned, so where do they sit in your value system?!

You say above you treat everyone the same yet contradict yourself in the same sentence? And further up stated you only care about pissing off 'seasoned' commuters.
This does not make logical sense!

There are a percentage of people on the road across all forms of transport we perceive (and indeed objectively do) to engage in dangerous behaviour. They can also be doing it like that for a long time - 'seasoned' and 'experienced' cyclists.

Shoaling is dick behaviour. The etiquette of it has been answered, repeatedly.

eeeee

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I thought when commuting you must always assume you're the fastest badass on the road. Eyeball the other f*ckers in lycra into submission.

*eyeballs Canis Lupus back*

dinneenp

After reading this thread all I can say is WOOF!

Etc

nee wrote: »

I fully expect it to happen tomorrow :pac:




Nope, again not always obvious. I race with people who've been at it for years yet are all over the place and a danger/do stupid things. I also do stupid things, all the time!
You also have people who do it immediately 'right', but they aren't seasoned, so where do they sit in your value system?!

You say above you treat everyone the same yet contradict yourself in the same sentence? And further up stated you only care about pissing off 'seasoned' commuters.
This does not make logical sense!

There are a percentage of people on the road across all forms of transport we perceive (and indeed objectively do) to engage in dangerous behaviour. They can also be doing it like that for a long time - 'seasoned' and 'experienced' cyclists.

Shoaling is dick behaviour. The etiquette of it has been answered, repeatedly.

It does make sense because what I'm saying is I treat everyone I encounter with a positive regard, but I assess my situation and make determinations off the back of that.

I can tell when I see an experienced cyclist. I have no radar that detects arseholes. And sometimes there is no differentiation between experienced cyclists and arseholes.

What I am saying is after 35 years of cycling I can tell if someone can ride a bike, ride in traffic or ride in a group or just ride a bike.

You seem very black and white in terms of your views of racing or shoaling, I respect your opinion and when some day if we meet on the road I'll respect you too.

I don't have anything else to add.

eeeee

Etc wrote: »

It does make sense because what I'm saying is I treat everyone I encounter with a positive regard, but I assess my situation and make determinations off the back of that.

I can tell when I see an experienced cyclist. I have no radar that detects arseholes. And sometimes there is no differetion between experienced cyclists and arseholes.

What I am saying is after 35 years of cycling I can tell if someone can ride a bike, ride in traffic or ride in a group or just ride a bike.

You seem very black and white in terms of your views of racing or shoaling, I respect your opinion and when some day if we meet on the road I'll respect you too.

I don't have anything else to add.

I haven't unleashed any of my racing opinions?! No one wants to hear them :pac:

I'm advocating the opposite to the black and white approach, and saying that you actually can't always judge what a seasoned commuter, to use your own words, is. The very positive opposite of a black and white approach!
Yes you can see some people can pedal, hassle handle a bike etc, but there's nothing to say they are seasoned commuters. And there are seasoned commuters, just like they're are experienced riders who have terrible style on a bike.

What I was originally responding to was your statement that you don't want to its piss off seasoned commuters with your shoaling. I'm pointing out that there is actually no way of knowing how seasoned a commuter someone is, and that surely rider, not just who you perceive to be a seasoned commuter deserves the same consideration.

Whether people can ride in a bunch is a different kind of riding and not one mentioned on this thread. That's immediately obvious when you put them in a group.

On shoaling I am black and white. Shoaling on a bike is skipping a queue essentially - the same as skipping the queue at an atm - 'I'm faster than that old man at the machine I'm cutting in front of him'. In a shop- 'I'll be quicker through the tills than these people, I have my stuff, money and bags ready I'm going in front'. I know it's not exactly the same as the two examples above, but it's not a million miles off.

And FYI the most experienced bike riders I ride with don't shoal. There is never a need. When Is it ever necessary?

It's a dick move no matter what way you look at it and its just not necessary.

Kaisr Sose

This all got quite contentious as to different classes of cyclist. Treat others how you would like them to treat you. We are all equal.

No shoaling, to any anyone, at anytime. When he lights turn green, pass them safely, if you want to and Can. Importantly, look to see if it’s safe and give a proper hand signal in plenty of time ( for those coming behind you who may be faster than you and for the benefit other road users).
I don’t have anything else to add. Enjoy the new lifestyle choice!

beauf

The problem is when someone slow skips at the light then holds everyone up till the next set of lights. As often there is no room to pass.

If there's room to pass then its not much of an issue, we'll just pass them out.

If someone skips then disappears rapidly into the distance, I don't have a problem with that.

Etc

nee wrote: »

I haven't unleashed any of my racing opinions?! No one wants to hear them :pac:

I'm advocating the opposite to the black and white approach, and saying that you actually can't always judge what a seasoned commuter, to use your own words, is. The very positive opposite of a black and white approach!
Yes you can see some people can pedal, hassle handle a bike etc, but there's nothing to say they are seasoned commuters. And there are seasoned commuters, just like they're are experienced riders who have terrible style on a bike.

What I was originally responding to was your statement that you don't want to its piss off seasoned commuters with your shoaling. I'm pointing out that there is actually no way of knowing how seasoned a commuter someone is, and that surely rider, not just who you perceive to be a seasoned commuter deserves the same consideration.

Whether people can ride in a bunch is a different kind of riding and not one mentioned on this thread. That's immediately obvious when you put them in a group.

On shoaling I am black and white. Shoaling on a bike is skipping a queue essentially - the same as skipping the queue at an atm - 'I'm faster than that old man at the machine I'm cutting in front of him'. In a shop- 'I'll be quicker through the tills than these people, I have my stuff, money and bags ready I'm going in front'. I know it's not exactly the same as the two examples above, but it's not a million miles off.

And FYI the most experienced bike riders I ride with don't shoal. There is never a need. When Is it ever necessary?

It's a dick move no matter what way you look at it and its just not necessary.

Thanks all for the input. I think I know how to approach my commute from Monday on my SPedelec.


Mods: Can you close this.