Could I manage with a Leaf?

Springwell

Trying to gauge real life scenarios vs on paper ranges!

Commute - 47.5km each way daily. Through Wicklow/Dublin mountains so one or two steep climbs, plus some time on M50. Charging points at destination BUT not convenient for everyday use. Would need to do commute on a full charge at home really.

Would a Leaf work for me? I have Peugeot 3008 (hate it) that I could use for longer drives (unfortunately household commutes are in two different directions so not possible to car share!).

Spur of the moment as my geriatric Focus has bitten the dust this week

Bigus

You're right on the real world limit , ideally if you could borrow or rent one for a week, to be sure to be sure.

Soarer

I'm assuming that since it's a commute, you're not tipping along at 120kmh on the M50?

I reckon you're bang on for a Leaf. And you'll save an absolute fortune.

goz83

You would make it, but it would be tight. Would you have access to a charge point (or even a 3 pin socket) at your destination? If yes...it’s a no brainer.

KCross

24kWh car is just within limit (10-20km to spare)

imo, not the best choice as you need to allow for battery degradation, unexpected detours, winter driving.

Get a 28kWh car and you will have plenty to spare.

Look at Leaf 30kWh, Ioniq, maybe eGolf too.

Evd-Burner

KCross wrote: »

24kWh car is just within limit (10-20km to spare)

imo, not the best choice as you need to allow for battery degradation, unexpected detours, winter driving.

Get a 28kWh car and you will have plenty to spare.

Look at Leaf 30kWh, Ioniq, maybe eGolf too.

Couldn't agree more with KCross here. A really cold morning and evening after 5-6% degradation on a 24kwh leaf would be dangerous with those hills!

I just did 120 Kms today , 151 Leaf , 80,300 Kms, arrives home with 20% to spare, 80-100 Km/h, granted it was a mild day.

My Wicklow trips made me realise that what you loose on the way up the hills you gain coming back down, trick is to use B mode for descents and use the accelerator to adjust the regen strength by pressing or lifting off slightly and lifting off if you need max regen.

I was able to go from Carlow to Baltinglass , up the N81 to Hollywood Cross and up through Hollywood, turlough Hill and down into Glendalough park then into laragh, turn right heading for Rathdrum but then take the turn for Glenmalure and on to the Glenmalure Lodge, straight at the cross then up the mountain and down into Aughavannagn - rathdangan - back into Baltinglass - carlow.

Anyone familiar with that route knows there are some seriously steep routes. I usually arrive home with 20-30% to spare. Mostly do that in warmer weather too but I found no real range reduction and yes, those roads are not very fast routes but very hilly terrain doesn't mean a huge loss in range, in fact I would say it looses no range at all.

If I were you I would get the 30 Kwh leaf which allows faster charging on the fast chargers. Well worth it because the 24 Kwh is slow charging on fast chargers especially when the battery is cold.

However, I would say the 24 Kwh would do it no worries but the battery will eventually degrade. I would advise a test drive on your commute in Winter. As I said the 30 Kwh Leaf is always going to be better.

If the budget can stretch the BMW I3 2015 Rex has a generator should you run low and can mean much longer drives are more practical and it's a brilliant car to drive.

Leafs form 2014 have a much more reliable battery.

Springwell

Price wise I think I'm going to have to go back to my original thoughts of getting a Prius as budget is very small (€7500ish) and I could only get an older Leaf. Will be looking at a Leaf again in a few years for sure

Thanks for the help guy

unkel

Before you make your mind up, try and get a test drive in a Leaf. And drive to and from work. Taking it handy. Then see how much range you will have left over. I'd say you'd be ok the vast majority of days apart from some cold / wet / windy days in winter where you might need a little top up

Even for your budget, you could get a very decent Leaf. And your savings would be huge compared to buying a similar money Prius

Don't dismiss the idea just yet!

goz83

To echo Unkel, don't rule it out until you at least put more thought into it.

If you have destination charging, an older Leaf will do just fine.

Ask yourself how much fuel you would be buying if you opt for a prius and multiply that by the amount of time you would wait before considering an EV again.

A modest budget increase could see you land a 2014 Leaf with the batter chemistry. It means getting one from the UK, which many of us have done. Here's a nice example of a 2015 Acenta (mid-spec). I would query if the battery is leased at that price though.

Located around the edinburgh area

And here is a 2014 one...again, 1.5 Gen model with newer battery chemistry.

It's way over the east side of England, but delivery to ports is often negotiable.

I would seriously consider this one in Darlington.
Late 2013 (so better battery than early 2013 and below. Small miles too.

unkel

Both red ones are FLEX (battery rental). The white one looks to be battery owned...

goz83

unkel wrote: »

Both red ones are FLEX (battery rental). The white one looks to be battery owned...

The 2013 red one is battery owned. The advert reads "Superb condition and low miles. Great opportunity for a cheap way into electric car ownership without the additional cost of a lease, as the battery is owned and still showing 12/12 on the capacity indicator. " (My bolding)

Springwell

Thanks - I'm going to at least go drive one this weekend. Budget is totally stretched at 7.5, I'm afraid. I was expecting another year out of the elderly Focus so the spend is unexpected and the savings aren't what I had hoped to have.

My problem with the EV chargers at UCD is that the campus is road blocked during the day and the chargers are on the opposite side of the road blocks to my usual parking area. I think it does warrant further investigation though

goz83

Springwell wrote: »

Thanks - I'm going to at least go drive one this weekend. Budget is totally stretched at 7.5, I'm afraid. I was expecting another year out of the elderly Focus so the spend is unexpected and the savings aren't what I had hoped to have.

My problem with the EV chargers at UCD is that the campus is road blocked during the day and the chargers are on the opposite side of the road blocks to my usual parking area. I think it does warrant further investigation though

So if you have destiantion charging, you’ll be perfectly OK with a pre 2013 Leaf. I have a 2012 and 2014 Leaf. They’re both great. My biggest gripe with the 2012 is that it doesn’t have a battery percentage indicator, but that’s not exactly a deal breaker. The battery bars and the GoM will do the job. You would pick one up at your budget and would be unlikely to lose much, if any value inside of a year, or two when it comes to trading up. Just something else to think about.

UCD use a third party (clamping) company, but maybe talk to a responsible person about making sure the EV spots are not blocked off. There’s also a couple of rapid chargers near UCD if they were ever needed and you couldn’t charge at the college.

Remember that there are 2013's that are the original Leaf with the older battery that wasn't as good as the updated gen battery.

You'll know the difference, the newer gen mostly had darker interior, has a separate heat and AC button on the climate control, the original only had AC.

The steering will have an ECO button and the "Gear" selector will have B, the original did not have either.

My Advice is to get this updated gen at the minimum or hold off until you can get one and especially the 30 Kwh.

The pre updated gens , 2011-2013 "may have" suffered 20-25% battery degradation and possibly more meaning you might struggle to get 80 Kms in Winter with Cold , lots of surface water and wind all at speeds 100 Kph and below.

Longer trips will be a real pain in the ass, believe me, my next EV will not have such little range as even the current Gen 24 Kwh which will also mean being close to a charge point at 100-110 Kms in Winter, put the boot down past 100 Km/h and that could be less than 100 Kms especially on an older battery.

A degraded battery also charges slower and slower as it ages on the fast charger.

Having work charging saved me from loosing my mind and charging every time after a 12 hr shift, I could make it to my old house about 130 Kms taking back roads but it was dodgy and I needed to drive a lot slower than I like. The 30 Kwh would have allowed me to make it at faster speeds and on the fast charger I used to get around 6-7 Kwh to get me home, 10-15 odd mins.

Springwell

Thanks for all the input - I'm going to pop to the dealer in Naas this weekend and at least drive a newer one and look at the price here v importing (thanks for pointing out the free/no VRT!)

I've kept an eye on the EV spaces at UCD and they do seem to be EV only (as the clampers prowl constantly I guess). Getting a charging spot wouldn't be an issue as I'm in the only School which starts at 7-7.30am so get to UCD at least an hour or two before most!

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

The 2013 red one is battery owned.

No it isn't. Who do you believe, the seller or me?

BoatMad

Springwell wrote: »

Thanks for all the input - I'm going to pop to the dealer in Naas this weekend and at least drive a newer one and look at the price here v importing (thanks for pointing out the free/no VRT!)

I've kept an eye on the EV spaces at UCD and they do seem to be EV only (as the clampers prowl constantly I guess). Getting a charging spot wouldn't be an issue as I'm in the only School which starts at 7-7.30am so get to UCD at least an hour or two before most!

Fist fights have started in UCD over those EV spaces , I've heard !!!

Gumbo

goz83 wrote: »

The 2013 red one is battery owned. The advert reads "Superb condition and low miles. Great opportunity for a cheap way into electric car ownership without the additional cost of a lease, as the battery is owned and still showing 12/12 on the capacity indicator. " (My bolding)

Buyer should double check before handing over money. Both are listed as Fkex cars and thus battery was leased from original purchase date.

Springwell

Thanks guys, really enjoyed the test drive. Considering a loan to make up the shortfall to get a newer model

Springwell

Update

I thought I should update this thread for anyone else in the same kind of decision situation.

I ended up importing a 2015 low mileage Zoe with 98% battery health from the UK (Well, NI) - It's real world range right now (cold, wet, windy and living in the mountains) is about 137-141km that bit extra over the leaf is a big reliever of range anxiety. My actual drive is about 46km, the drive in (lots of down hill) reduces my range by about 31km while driving out of Dublin is tougher on the range coming in at about 55km - so it does even out and that's using pre-heat not always plugged in and keeping the car at 22c all the time!

Import was painless and once the home charger is installed we will be flying - although I've had her a week now relying on UCD charging and a local SCP and managed fine but it wouldn't be feasible long term

ELM327

Interesting. Was it an "i" model or did you get the battery lease transferred?

Springwell

ELM327 wrote: »

Interesting. Was it an "i" model or did you get the battery lease transferred?

Was offered both, weighed up the costings and possibility of future sale and future wish to battery upgrade and kept the battery lease for now

ELM327

Springwell wrote: »

Was offered both, weighed up the costings and possibility of future sale and future wish to battery upgrade and kept the battery lease for now

And did you have any issues transferring it to the ROI from the UK lease?

goz83

Well done. Though I would have taken it without the lease.

ELM327

goz83 wrote: »

Well done. Though I would have taken it without the lease.

For future resale value I would agree, but there are many examples of how leasing the battery for less than 6/7 years is actually cheaper.
But in 5 years time
a) no one will buy a leased battery
b) you should have been able to buy it out

goz83

ELM327 wrote: »

For future resale value I would agree, but there are many examples of how leasing the battery for less than 6/7 years is actually cheaper.
But in 5 years time
a) no one will buy a leased battery
b) you should have been able to buy it out

Even if buying it outright is a bit more expensive, that's just what I would personally do. It removes a lot of hassle and gives me freedom to sell the car when I want to. I wouldn't have a separate monthly bill coming out and I wouldn't have to take Renault to court when they refuse to stick to the terms of their battery lease agreement.

Springwell

ELM327 wrote: »

And did you have any issues transferring it to the ROI from the UK lease?

No, dealer in NI organised it all for us

Springwell

ELM327 wrote: »

For future resale value I would agree, but there are many examples of how leasing the battery for less than 6/7 years is actually cheaper.
But in 5 years time
a) no one will buy a leased battery
b) you should have been able to buy it out

Yes, it's one of those things where for someone else battery ownership might have been right but for us right now leasing is what works. Horses for courses and all that

ELM327

goz83 wrote: »

Even if buying it outright is a bit more expensive, that's just what I would personally do. It removes a lot of hassle and gives me freedom to sell the car when I want to. I wouldn't have a separate monthly bill coming out and I wouldn't have to take Renault to court when they refuse to stick to the terms of their battery lease agreement.

Oh completely, me too!
I was considering a ze40 zoe, it was for sale at approx 15k here when they retail (without battery lease) at 26k.

If ~10k off isnt enough to tempt me I'll never sign up for a battery lease. That's like so 2011! :pac:

I was just asking about the lease transfer as there were people saying it couldnt be transferred from the UK to here but I had my doubts.

ELM327

Springwell wrote: »

Yes, it's one of those things where for someone else battery ownership might have been right but for us right now leasing is what works. Horses for courses and all that

+1 exactly. Whatever works for you - if you add the cost of the time you intend to keep leasing the car, and the purchase price paid, that's what matters, the TCO.

thierry14

Springwell wrote: »

No, dealer in NI organised it all for us

Are u paying the battery lease in euro or sterling?

Springwell

Paying the lease in euros