Probate - doing it yourself

Zelda247

My husband passed away recently and left a Will of which I am the Executor. We have a couple of joint bank accounts and the house which is in both our names, no insurance policies or any shares etc.

Is it worth me trying to do the probate etc myself? or should I leave it to my solicitor its just I am worried about money and what it would cost.

Thanks.

endacl

Sorry for your loss.

gk5000

Start here on the citizens advice which has a section on making a personal application, so have a look at the links and forms.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/death/the_deceaseds_estate/dealing_with_the_deceaseds_estate.html

moby2101

Hi Zelda247,

Sorry for your loss.

My mum passed away in 2011, I was named executor and as a result I decided to do the probate myself.

It's very straight forward, the link posted above will give you all the info you need to get started.


Best of luck

Victor

Sorry to hear this.

In the short-term, certainly 6-12 months, make sure you have access to funds.

Zelda247

moby2101 wrote: »

Hi Zelda247,

Sorry for your loss.

My mum passed away in 2011, I was named executor and as a result I decided to do the probate myself.

It's very straight forward, the link posted above will give you all the info you need to get started.


Best of luck

Did you follow the Guide from Citizens advice?

Esho

Deepest condolences on your loss. When my mother passed away, I did the probate of my mother's estate for my father, but I got a solicitor to do it when my father passed away.
The probate form PA2 is very simple. The tax probate form PT1 form looks very difficult but there is a great guide that comes with it, and the probate office are brilliant and very helpful. I would save the money and do it myself.
If your bank accounts / credit union accounts were in joint names, you just have to send the death cert to the bank/ credit union and they will eventually put the accounts in your sole name.

A solicitor is faster, but is not worth the money if it between a couple, I reckon. Maybe download the forms and read it a few times over a few days. All the best.

Pixie Chief

I think in this instance, it would definitely be worth a consultation with a solicitor (although I pretty much always think that!). I have no idea of the limits and details but there are types of joint ownership and circumstances where the asset could pass under survivorship and outside the probate process. A solicitor will be able to tell you whether your assets would meet that criteria and what you would need to do if that were the case. I have no idea if it applies to your circumstances but it's worth asking the question!

Edited to add - in my experience, if you were doing the above, banks tend to respect solicitors letters more that regular citizens and I personally would not contemplate trying to transfer property in the Land Registry myself without legal advice!

Ghekko

So sorry for your loss. If everything is in joint names you may not need a grant of probate, see below link to frequently asked questions (Is a Grant of Probate always required). It may be worth having a consultation with your solicitor to determine this.

https://www.probate.ie/services/probate/probate-faqs/

eggerb

Ghekko wrote: »

So sorry for your loss. If everything is in joint names you may not need a grant of probate, see below link to frequently asked questions (Is a Grant of Probate always required). It may be worth having a consultation with your solicitor to determine this.

https://www.probate.ie/services/probate/probate-faqs/

Sorry for your loss.

Good advice from Ghekko. The jointly owned assets you have noted should pass by survivorship in this case.

Further relevant reference here: http://www.cmcsolicitor.ie/wordpress/probate/is-probate-always-necessary/

If you find you do need a Grant, go the personal application route. Based on the information you have posted, it will be straightforward. You will be more than capable of seeing this through yourself.

If you are still undecided as to what route to take, write to all the institutions enclosing a certified copy of the death cert and ask them what their requirements are to collect the funds in the accounts or put the accounts into your sole name.

You could also telephone them and ask for the bereavement section. Most will have dedicated staff dealing with such queries.

Your bank branch should certify copies of the death certificate for you and these copies should be accepted by other financial institutions.

Zelda247

Thanks so much to everyone, it is wonderful to come across such kind people at this very difficult time.

I will talk to my solicitor and let you know how it goes. All our accounts (there are only 2) are in joint names, as is our house, we don't own anything else.

Ghekko

I'd say it will be fairly straight forward so. I had a joint current account with my dad and the funds were transferred to my sole account after giving them the death Cert. It didn't go through probate.

Sue Pa Key Pa

We were charged in excess of €7k this year for a straighforward spouse to spouse situation. We stupidly didn't agree a figure in advance with the solicitor and presumed fees would be reasonable.

Ghekko

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

We were charged in excess of €7k this year for a straighforward spouse to spouse situation. We stupidly didn't agree a figure in advance with the solicitor and presumed fees would be reasonable.

Wow! That's a lot. I think some may base their charge as a percentage of the overall estate whereas there may be no more work involved than an estate of a lesser amount.

Zelda247 once you have a death Cert bring it to the bank and see about getting the funds transferred to your sole name. I dealt with AIB and they were very helpful. They may have to send off a copy of the Cert to their deceased customer department so may take a few days.

NUTLEY BOY

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

We were charged in excess of €7k this year for a straighforward spouse to spouse situation. We stupidly didn't agree a figure in advance with the solicitor and presumed fees would be reasonable.

Excuse me if this is intrusive but I am curious.

Was €7K the entire bill to include instructions fee, outlays (including whatever stamp duty was payable) and VAT ? If so, what instructions fee did they mark ?

I was reading recently about some probate matters being charged at about 2.5% of the value of the estate - I don't know if that was the instructions fee or the entire bill. That said, the value of the estate does not reveal the complexities or otherwise that may be involved in the handling of any particular probate.

Zelda247

I contacted my Solicitor and she says if everything is joint then there is no need for probate.

Sue Pa Key Pa

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

Was €7K the entire bill to include instructions fee, outlays (including whatever stamp duty was payable) and VAT ? If so, what instructions fee did they mark ?

€5k plus is the basic fee and the balance was "costs incurred". And yes, we were then told that they could have charged 2.5% of the estate. Thanks for the favour . It was our fault for not agreeing a fee in advance but no contract was provided either. Lovely people taking advantage when you are in a vulnerable position. There is no recourse available to you when this happens.

Ghekko

Zelda247 wrote: »

I contacted my Solicitor and she says if everything is joint then there is no need for probate.

That's good - one less thing to have to do during this difficult time for you.

eggerb

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

We were charged in excess of €7k this year for a straighforward spouse to spouse situation. We stupidly didn't agree a figure in advance with the solicitor and presumed fees would be reasonable.

A solicitor is required, by law, to outline their fees:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1994/act/27/section/68/enacted/en/html

https://amp.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/a-solicitors-failure-to-outline-fees-could-see-them-breaking-the-law-25891163.html

Sue Pa Key Pa

eggerb wrote:

A solicitor is required, by law, to outline their fees:

Cheers, will definitely follow that up

Zelda247

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Cheers, will definitely follow that up

Gosh you were very unlucky with your solicitors, I am grateful for the guys on this board as they have really guided me, it always helps to seek advice.

hullaballoo

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

€5k plus is the basic fee and the balance was "costs incurred". And yes, we were then told that they could have charged 2.5% of the estate. Thanks for the favour . It was our fault for not agreeing a fee in advance but no contract was provided either. Lovely people taking advantage when you are in a vulnerable position. There is no recourse available to you when this happens.

There is recourse to the Law Society.

They deal with complaints around fees literally all the time. It's the most common complaint made.

Sue Pa Key Pa

hullaballoo wrote:

There is recourse to the Law Society.

Cheers, I'm looking in to everything at the moment. However, I wouldn't have much confidence in the legal profession investigating its own members. Is there any independent regulator like most other professions?

hullaballoo

Lawyers are exactly the ones to know when another lawyer has breached the professional standards. It's the same in all the professions.

What professions do you think are independently regulated?

Zelda247

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Cheers, I'm looking in to everything at the moment. However, I wouldn't have much confidence in the legal profession investigating its own members. Is there any independent regulator like most other professions?

I think you get crooks in every profession, I have come across very good and genuine Solicitors.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Zelda247 wrote:

I think you get crooks in every profession, I have come across very good and genuine Solicitors.

That's true. Can you tell me if it is easy to get a solicitor to represent you in an action against another solicitor?

nuac

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

That's true. Can you tell me if it is easy to get a solicitor to represent you in an action against another solicitor?

Yes it is. The Law Society will assist if required.

OTOH in medical negligence no Irish doctor or medical consultant will issue a report or give evidence re treatment of a patient in Ireland. Have to consult a British doctor/consultant. Expensive.

Sue Pa Key Pa

nuac wrote:

Yes it is. The Law Society will assist if required.

So you're suggesting I should contact the Law Society, so they can source a solicitor to represent me in a hearing they will conduct?

nuac

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

So you're suggesting I should contact the Law Society, so they can source a solicitor to represent me in a hearing they will conduct?

Yes, If you cannot get a solicitor for any sort of action the Law Society will suggest some.

Sue Pa Key Pa

nuac wrote:

Yes, If you cannot get a solicitor for any sort of action the Law Society will suggest some.

Seriously, that sounds as far from impartial as I can imagine. Thanks for your help. It is appreciated but I'll look for another route

Sue Pa Key Pa

Just an update on my situation. Bill has been paid on my mother's instruction and she won't permit any further action. 100% confirmed that no correspondence regarding fees was ever received from the solicitor and the invoice just states "Fees €X and Expenses Incurred €Y. I have no doubt that they continue to sleep easy at night, but I couldn't.

McCrack

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Just an update on my situation. Bill has been paid on my mother's instruction and she won't permit any further action. 100% confirmed that no correspondence regarding fees was ever received from the solicitor and the invoice just states "Fees €X and Expenses Incurred €Y. I have no doubt that they continue to sleep easy at night, but I couldn't.

I recognise you from other forums on boards.ie and you come out quite a bit against lawyers and the legal profession in general so I take anything you say lightly

Mod amendment

Sue Pa Key Pa

McCrack wrote:

I recognise you from other forums on boards.ie and you come out with quite a bit of bile against lawyers and the legal profession in general so I take anything you say lightly

Quote Mod: Remark delete. Be Polite, PLS