Fine for using mobile phone ??

sporina

A mate was fined for using her mobile while stuck in traffic? Does the law include when the car is not moving?

whippet

sporina wrote: »

A mate was fined for using her mobile while stuck in traffic? Does the law include when the car is not moving?

yep

daheff

sporina wrote: »

A mate was fined for using her mobile while stuck in traffic? Does the law include when the car is not moving?

Dont know but would guess it says something about usage while in charge of a vehicle

If theres no penalty points suggest its paid up quietly & hope it goes away.

Mint Sauce

Yes. you have to be pulled in, ie, parked. Sitting in traffic does not count.

Stanford

I'm afraid the fine comes with an automatic 2 penalty afaik

The_Valeyard

Interesting

What is it were a music device, changing a song or album?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

The_Valeyard

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Or avoiding tax.

Stanford

Anything that distracts your interest from driving could be considered to be "careless" or "reckless" driving, depends on how bored or cranky PC Plod is

nilescraneo

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Interesting

What is it were a music device, changing a song or album?

Doesn't matter. Offence is driving an mpv whilst holding a phone, not what it is being used for.

Sleeper12

The_Valeyard wrote:

What is it were a music device, changing a song or album?

I can't quote the actual law but you can't physically touch the phone while driving. Driving is also when stopped in traffic. It doesn't matter if you touch the phone to change a music track or any other feature that your phone has. Law says that you can't touch it.

I'd be sympathetic if sitting in traffic but my pet hate is the person going round a roundabout with phone between shoulder and head and taking a drag from a cigarette at the same time or any commercial vehicle without a hands free.

Cars should fail the nct if not fitted with a hands free imo.

Stanford

While using a hands free kit is not illegal but you can still be fined if use of the kit contributed to careless driving or distracted you from road attention in any way, your mind is still doing two things, of course this would have to be proven in Court, you can see examples of this when you come across some idiot who appears to be having a heated discussion with himself/herself

Paulw

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/23/section/3/enacted/en/html

I don't see any mention of being allowed to use a phone while stopped in traffic.

The_Valeyard

Just to clarify,


What if it's not a phine.

But an actual music decice. Plugged into the aux socket.

sporina

she got a fine and 3 penalty points! what is the actual statute? she was in traffic on Tue - she was totally stationary - was bumper to bumper - she wanted to check aa road watch for traffic updates.. and the cop came up along the side of her car - on a motorbike I as assume, and summonsed her

Sleeper12

The_Valeyard wrote:

But an actual music decice. Plugged into the aux socket.

I don't think that is covered in the mobile phone law but regular "dangerous driving" or "driving without due care" laws cover this.

Paulw

sporina wrote: »

she got a fine and 3 penalty points! what is the actual statute?

The statute -
"A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone."

Simple really.

blackwhite

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I can't quote the actual law but you can't physically touch the phone while driving. Driving is also when stopped in traffic. It doesn't matter if you touch the phone to change a music track or any other feature that your phone has. Law says that you can't touch it.

I'd be sympathetic if sitting in traffic but my pet hate is the person going round a roundabout with phone between shoulder and head and taking a drag from a cigarette at the same time or any commercial vehicle without a hands free.

Cars should fail the nct if not fitted with a hands free imo.

The law prohibits holding a phone, or supporting it with another part of your body.

Touching isn’t explicitly prohibited (if phone is in a cradle, etc), so long as you aren’t supporting the weight of the phone

Del2005

blackwhite wrote: »

The law prohibits holding a phone, or supporting it with another part of your body.

Touching isn’t explicitly prohibited (if phone is in a cradle, etc), so long as you aren’t supporting the weight of the phone

IIRC sending text messages and emails are prohibited even from a cradle but not WhatsApp or Viber, which is what happens when non technical people implement legislation, but you can still get done for dangerous driving or without due care.

Holding a music player isn't an offence in itself but you can be done for several other driving offences if a Garda wants to.

punisher5112

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC sending text messages and emails are prohibited even from a cradle but not WhatsApp or Viber, which is what happens when non technical people implement legislation, but you can still get done for dangerous driving or without due care.

Holding a music player isn't an offence in itself but you can be done for several other driving offences if a Garda wants to.

The only group exempt are emergency services and a taxi driver can tap once in a cradle to allow them take a job from app such as mytaxi.

The thing I find funny is now most new vehicles come with touch screen devices and you can use these but they are exactly the same as using a touch screen phone.

mahamageehad

Yup, I had two penalty points and a fine for the same thing, bumper to bumper at a red light and checked google maps and didn't see Garda car behind me. A learning moment, I wouldn't chance it again.

GM228

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC sending text messages and emails are prohibited even from a cradle but not WhatsApp or Viber, which is what happens when non technical people implement legislation, but you can still get done for dangerous driving or without due care.

Holding a music player isn't an offence in itself but you can be done for several other driving offences if a Garda wants to.

It is illegal to send as well as read SMS, MMS and e-mail and it does include the likes of Viber or Whatsapp. They basically covered any message sent between one device and another assigned via a number (irrespective of how it is actually sent), they are then legally considered an SMS/MMS - non technical you say? Apps like Viber etc are assigned via a phone number unlike taxi Apps for example which are assigned via a user ID.

This part of the law is next to impossible to prove and AFAIK there has been no prosecutions as a result.

Phoebas

Paulw wrote: »

The statute -
"A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone."

Simple really.

That's just one part of the statute.
Subsection 4 goes on to allow the minister to make regulations to expand on that.

Anyone know what those are?

McCrack

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC sending text messages and emails are prohibited even from a cradle but not WhatsApp or Viber, which is what happens when non technical people implement legislation, but you can still get done for dangerous driving or without due care.

Holding a music player isn't an offence in itself but you can be done for several other driving offences if a Garda wants to.

Good luck arguing that distinction before my local DJ

GM228

Phoebas wrote: »

That's just one part of the statute.
Subsection 4 goes on to allow the minister to make regulations to expand on that.

Anyone know what those are?

Just those relating to SMS, MMS and e-mails.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/si/178/made/en/print

sporina

Paulw wrote: »

The statute -
"A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone."

Simple really.

thanks for that - yeah I kinda agree anyway - but was just wondering - she was unfortunate as I don't think that she would use phone while driving normally - circumstances were exceptional this week, traffic wise

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Paulw wrote: »

The statute -
"A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone."

Simple really.

Hope this isn’t a pedantic question. But is there an actual legal definition of “driving”?

If the car is in stationary traffic with the engine running and the handbrake applied does that count as driving? What about pulled into an on-street parking spot with the engine running?

Apparently you can be done with drunk driving in the latter scenario so surely you can be done with holding a phone while driving.

the_pen_turner

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Hope this isn’t a pedantic question. But is there an actual legal definition of “driving”?

If the car is in stationary traffic with the engine running and the handbrake applied does that count as driving? What about pulled into an on-street parking spot with the engine running?

Apparently you can be done with drunk driving in the latter scenario so surely you can be done with holding a phone while driving.

I would like to know this too.
is pulling enough or could you be done

punisher5112

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I would like to know this too.
is pulling enough or could you be done

If you are pulled in no they won't do you as you are not in traffic.

If they did then they could do you for no seatbelt even though you just got in or are about to jump out.

In traffic you are in charge of the vehicle and wish to proceed.

K.Flyer

Is it not covered by the wording...

Prohibition on holding mobile phone by driver of mechanically propelled vehicle, etc.

As per the link below..

Paulw wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/23/section/3/enacted/en/html

I don't see any mention of being allowed to use a phone while stopped in traffic.

the_pen_turner

punisher5112 wrote: »

If you are pulled in no they won't do you as you are not in traffic.

If they did then they could do you for no seatbelt even though you just got in or are about to jump out.

In traffic you are in charge of the vehicle and wish to proceed.

so what happens if there are 2 lanes on your side and no hard shoulder
your stopped in the left lane in gear and no hand brake on.
there could be people behind you thinking your in traffic but no one infront

punisher5112

the_pen_turner wrote: »

so what happens if there are 2 lanes on your side and no hard shoulder
your stopped in the left lane in gear and no hand brake on.
there could be people behind you thinking your in traffic but no one infront

Indicated on would be one way to show.

Tigger

Paulw wrote: »

The statute -
"A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone."

Simple really.

stopped in traffic isnt driving
its stupid but im aware its the interperstation

Tigger

mahamageehad wrote: »

Yup, I had two penalty points and a fine for the same thing, bumper to bumper at a red light and checked google maps and didn't see Garda car behind me. A learning moment, I wouldn't chance it again.

i only use the phine whennim moving in open roads cos tgta way you cant be seen
its handy

ED E

sporina wrote: »

she was in traffic on Tue - she was totally stationary - was bumper to bumper

If people put the phone down when traffic moved that'd be fine, but they don't. Thus a blanket ban is required.


Enforcement is tiny at the minute so your mate was unlucky to get done, unfortunately.

K.Flyer

the_pen_turner wrote: »

so what happens if there are 2 lanes on your side and no hard shoulder
your stopped in the left lane in gear and no hand brake on.
there could be people behind you thinking your in traffic but no one infront

Thats where they could Should get done.
Being on the phone and obstructing traffic.

the_pen_turner

K.Flyer wrote: »

Thats where they could Should get done.
Being on the phone and obstructing traffic.

I agree about the obstructing but not about the phone

Really Interested

The 1961 Road Traffic Act defines Driving

““ driving” includes managing and controlling and, in relation to a bicycle or tricycle, riding, and “ driver” and other cognate words shall be construed accordingly;”

http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/3/revised/en/html

K.Flyer

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I agree about the obstructing but not about the phone

The driver of the car is on the phone, whether the car is stationary or moving is a moot point, they are the driver, on a public road, holding a phone.
Why is it so difficult for people to go out and buy a bluetooth ear piece if they need to talk and their vehicle is not equipped with a handsfree.
As for texting, is it so urgent that they have to stop the car to reply, if it is, they should get off the road and stop being a hindrance to others.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

the_pen_turner

K.Flyer wrote: »

The driver of the car is on the phone, whether the car is stationary or moving is a moot point, they are the driver, on a public road, holding a phone.
Why is it so difficult for people to go out and buy a bluetooth ear piece if they need to talk and their vehicle is not equipped with a handsfree.
As for texting, is it so urgent that they have to stop the car to reply, if it is, they should get off the road and stop being a hindrance to others.

I agree entirely. no body should be on their phone when driving.
my question is whether pulling like that could result in being done for being on the phone.
my opinion would be perfectly correct to do them for causing an obstruction or dangerous parking etc but not for using the phone. they made some effort to not be driving on the phone

Reciprocity

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Just to clarify,

What if it's not a phine.
But an actual music decice. Plugged into the aux socket.

Are posting while driving by any chance?

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Reciprocity wrote: »

Are posting while driving by any chance?

Reciprocity wrote: »

Are you posting while driving by any chance?

Are you too? :P

Reciprocity

sporina wrote: »

A mate was fined for using her mobile while stuck in traffic? Does the law include when the car is not moving?

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Are you too? :P

Not driving - on couch with a glass of wine.
But fair cop

Peregrinus

Paulw wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/23/section/3/enacted/en/html

I don't see any mention of being allowed to use a phone while stopped in traffic.

It's right there in s.3(1): "A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone."

Is the OP thinking that at any instant when your vehicle is not actually in forward motion, you are not "driving" it? That would be a mistake. As long as you're managing and controlling the vehicle you're driving it, regardless of whether it is moving or not at any precise instant.

AndrewJRenko

ED E wrote: »

If people put the phone down when traffic moved that'd be fine, but they don't.

I disagree. If you're using the phone at traffic lights or in traffic queues, you're not going to see what's going on around you - the kid getting angsty while hanging off a parent, who may be ready to dash, the pedestrian who drops their phone and darts back to pick it up - and other clues of potential risks and dangers. It's not just a matter of seeing the green light and tearing off down the road.

ED E wrote: »

Enforcement is tiny at the minute so your mate was unlucky to get done, unfortunately.

I agree.

maximoose

Question

These things are becoming more and more standard, and more functional to the point I can't see how using your phone in the car when static is any different. Fines are hardly gonna start applying though would they?

Tesla
Mercedes
Volvo
BMW

cruizer101

Yeah I have agree maximoose touchscreens like that could be just as distracting as using a phone, possibly even more so given the location compared to a phone in cradle attached to windscreen.