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Whiskey prices

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  • 20-10-2017 12:58am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 20


    Ireland is one of the most expensive places to buy Irish Whiskey sadly enough.
    I've seen Teelings Single Malt go for 35$ in US yet my local charge 50 euro for it.

    I like high quality Irish and scotch.

    Where do you all buy your whiskey?
    Any good spots in Dublin that don't have simply ridiculous mark up?
    I have messaged Teelings to see if I can buy it from them themselves, will update.

    Cheers.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    Yeah it's a pain but I think it's taxes in Ireland that make it more expensive. Even from Dublin airport I find it expensive!

    I've picked up Jameson in my local supermarket here for €12, and I've gotten Teelings Single Malt and Writers Tears for about €30.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Rd96


    Yeah it's a pain but I think it's taxes in Ireland that make it more expensive. Even from Dublin airport I find it expensive!

    I've picked up Jameson in my local supermarket here for €12, and I've gotten Teelings Single Malt and Writers Tears for about €30.

    Wow! It's crazy. Cheaper in Germany :( I was talking to the guy in the Off Licence, he said not only is tax high, but it's the mark up in the shops too, because they export a lot of it to globalise the brand...

    They have a great selection on amazon uk and pricing is a little better. They won't ship to Ireland but I was thinking of having it sent to my addresspal, hopefully they won't seize it!
    Glenfiddich 12 or 15 for under 35£! 52 euro in Dublin! I think I'll give it a try..


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,470 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The tax element on a bottle of 40% is about 14 quid and then 23% of every euro after. The markup isn't that high here, it's the tax

    Personal imports by post/courier are illegal and no carrier allows them


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Rd96 wrote: »
    Ireland is one of the most expensive places to buy Irish Whiskey sadly enough.
    I've seen Teelings Single Malt go for 35$ in US yet my local charge 50 euro for it.

    I like high quality Irish and scotch.

    Where do you all buy your whiskey?
    Any good spots in Dublin that don't have simply ridiculous mark up?
    I have messaged Teelings to see if I can buy it from them themselves, will update.

    Cheers.

    The "Mark-Up" for the retailer is tiny in comparison to the overall price. Maybe check the different tax levels and look at the pre-tax price and you'll see very little difference

    Duty on a 40% alcohol bottle of spirits is €11.97
    Duty on a 46% alcohol bottle of spirits is €13.25

    So, say a €25 bottle of whiskey

    VAT = 4.68
    Duty = 11.97
    Balance = 8.35 for retailer & product

    About 15 years ago, the net cost of Jameson Whiskey to a embassy in Dublin (they are tax and duty free) was just over €4, probably close to €5 now.

    That leaves a "massive" €3.35 for the retailer.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭mik_da_man


    There are a few sites like master of malt, whiskey exchange that will ship here and have the appropriate license to do so.
    Can be cheaper at times.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    mik_da_man wrote: »
    There are a few sites like master of malt, whiskey exchange that will ship here and claim to have the appropriate license to do so.
    Can be cheaper at times.

    FYP


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,470 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The thing with the sites that ship direct is that even if they are lying about licences; you'll get your money back if its seized. You will not if you've been doing a re-sender as the product was delivered to where you said. None of the re-senders will carry alcohol if they know its there anyway.

    As goes the buying direct in the OP - Teeling have a 7 day publican licence at the visitor centre so they can do off-sales. If its any cheaper than a supermarket I'd be amazed - it could even be dearer. Kilbeggan is the only visitor centre I've see with (marginally) cheaper off-sales. Most brewers and many distillers have no ability to sell in non-wholesale volumes due to current licencing laws.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Rd96


    Great info lads thanks a lot, really helped. Sounds like the offo worker didn't know his stuff!

    I see on AddressPal they don't allow any liquids at all, but I have seen threads where people talk about ordering perfume from Amazon through it and it gets by no problem. Thing is, when Amazon deliver alcohol I think they require someone 18+ to sign for it and they probably state that there is alcohol inside unfortunately..

    Might be worth the gamble, to buy a cheap one see if it gets through...If I do it I'll be sure to let you know the outcome..

    Will check what @mik_da_man said too.

    It's a real shame..Such high quality whiskey made in this country, we deserve to be able to enjoy it.

    Again, appreciate the info.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    I really don't how you compare the prices of whiskey in US compared to here, with a population size of over 300 million it's no wonder they can sell it cheaper and that goes for Germany too with over 80 million.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,852 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Marty Bird wrote: »
    I really don't how you compare the prices of whiskey in US compared to here, with a population size of over 300 million it's no wonder they can sell it cheaper and that goes for Germany too with over 80 million.

    Its made here.....

    Jesus I'm perplexed why you think it's market share that makes it expensive that's gas. Lol


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    listermint wrote: »
    Its made here.....

    Jesus I'm perplexed why you think it's market share that makes it expensive that's gas. Lol

    You do realize that when you sell a product in vast quantities in a much much bigger market place you can sell it at a cheaper rate LOL.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,779 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Marty Bird wrote: »
    You do realize that when you sell a product in vast quantities in a much much bigger market place you can sell it at a cheaper rate LOL.

    Explain then the price difference between Kerrygold Irish butter in Germany vis a vis Ireland, and Jameson Irish whiskey in Germany versus Ireland.
    If your theory is correct, the % price difference should be broadly the same.
    It's not even in the same ballpark though is it?

    Both products are made here and have to incur the further cost of shipping to Germany.
    What matters is the total size of the customer base, not the size of it in any one target market.
    What matters in the target market is price competition and government duties.

    I think you need to go back to the start on this one and factor in the effect of government duties...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Explain then the price difference between Kerrygold Irish butter in Germany vis a vis Ireland, and Jameson Irish whiskey in Germany versus Ireland.
    If your theory is correct, the % price difference should be broadly the same.
    It's not even in the same ballpark though is it?

    Both products are made here and have to incur the further cost of shipping to Germany.
    What matters is the total size of the customer base, not the size of it in any one target market.
    What matters in the target market is price competition and government duties.

    I think you need to go back to the start on this one and factor in the effect of government duties...
    Tell me the cost of them in Germany ?

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    1ltr Jameson in Frankfurt airport is €16.90. A friend bought a few bottles over there recently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Rd96 wrote: »

    It's a real shame..Such high quality whiskey made in this country, we deserve to be able to enjoy it.
    .

    We do.
    Nothing stopping us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Rd96


    We do.
    Nothing stopping us.

    Well, I guess the price means we can't enjoy as much of it, but then again, we are a supposed nation of alcoholics, maybe we shouldn't be able to get high quality 40% spirits at an affordable price..lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Rd96


    By the way, I recommend you all check out The Whisk(e)y Vault on YouTube. Best Whiskey channel, amazing collection. They run a Whiskey marketing school.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,263 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Yeah it's a pain but I think it's taxes in Ireland that make it more expensive. Even from Dublin airport I find it expensive!

    Taxes are often quoted as a reason, but often they are not the full story.

    For example, beer excise is lower in Ireland than in the UK.

    Yet beer is dearer in Irish shops.

    One reason is the dominance of Diageo / Heineken in Ireland.

    Guinness is easily found for 1.00 GBP for 44cl in NI, that's approx 1.35 euro for 50cl. It's usually way more in RoI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,263 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    L1011 wrote: »
    The tax element on a bottle of 40% is about 14 quid and then 23% of every euro after. The markup isn't that high here, it's the tax

    Spirits excise duty is 42.57 per litre of alcohol

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-duty-rates/alcohol-products-tax.aspx

    That's 11.92 per 70cl bottle at 40%.


  • Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭nkav86


    Rd96 wrote:
    By the way, I recommend you all check out The Whisk(e)y Vault on YouTube. Best Whiskey channel, amazing collection. They run a Whiskey marketing school.


    Second this, its a great channel taught me a lot!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,470 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Geuze wrote: »
    Spirits excise duty is 42.57 per litre of alcohol

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-duty-rates/alcohol-products-tax.aspx

    That's 11.92 per 70cl bottle at 40%.

    And 23% VAT on the 11.92.

    14.66 for a 70cl bottle. That means that the producer and retailer element on a bottle of Lidl or Aldi bourbon is 33c. Own-brand spirits are loss leaders in Ireland.

    The 16.90 litre of Jameson mentioned further up there would require a loss of 4.10 on the duty and VAT alone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Rd96 wrote: »
    Wow! It's crazy. Cheaper in Germany :( I was talking to the guy in the Off Licence, he said not only is tax high, but it's the mark up in the shops too, because they export a lot of it to globalise the brand...
    Is this a guy in an off licence here or in an off licence in Germany?

    If it was here it seems odd that he would admit that the off licence is applying a really high markup. I also do not see the connection between the off licence high markup and globalising the brand.

    It seems to me he was more likely saying the markup (wholesale price) from the distillery here is a lot higher when selling to local off licences, rather than abroad. They already have a market here, and are likely setting the whole sale price in line with what others are charging already. And are selling at a lower wholesale price abroad to get the brand selling & known. This would make far more sense to me.

    Lots of people have this weird idea that all wholesale prices are the same, not just drink but all sorts of goods. I know a guy with a cash & carry card who could not get his head around the fact I bought chocolate etc cheaper than he could. People are too quick to blame the last guy in the line.

    My local supervalu used to have 5% scottish market heineken cans cheaper than irish market 4.3% cans. Both brewed & canned in holland. I figured heineken were just charging a lot less in scotland. I remember getting stolichnaya vodka cheap enough 20+ years ago in a local offie, before it was "officially distributed" here -even though the offie, or their source, were likely paying more in transport per bottle.

    The aviva stadium here threatened to reimport guinness kegs from the UK unless guinness dropped their price. The wholesale price difference was obviously so high that it was more profitable to ship it back and pay for that and all the admin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,470 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    rubadub wrote: »

    It seems to me he was more likely saying the markup (wholesale price) from the distillery here is a lot higher when selling to local off licences, rather than abroad. They already have a market here, and are likely setting the whole sale price in line with what others are charging already. And are selling at a lower wholesale price abroad to get the brand selling & known. This would make far more sense to me.

    When you work out the actual amount left for retailer + manufacturer + supply chain after tax, Irish whiskey is often "cheaper" here than the countries where it actually is cheaper - due to how damn high our taxes are. Kilbeggan is one I've often seen directly dearer in countries I know have a fraction of the tax take; Bushmills/Black Bush also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,263 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    L1011 wrote: »
    And 23% VAT on the 11.92.

    14.66 for a 70cl bottle. That means that the producer and retailer element on a bottle of Lidl or Aldi bourbon is 33c. Own-brand spirits are loss leaders in Ireland.

    The 16.90 litre of Jameson mentioned further up there would require a loss of 4.10 on the duty and VAT alone.


    Interesting, thanks

    I suspected the cases of 33cl bottles are loss leaders in many supermarkets.

    I don't get why they would do this on own-brand spirits?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,470 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Geuze wrote: »
    Interesting, thanks

    I suspected the cases of 33cl bottles are loss leaders in many supermarkets.

    I don't get why they would do this on own-brand spirits?

    By cost, I suspect the #1 item I buy in Lidl is their gin - its decent (better than Cork Dry by an incalculable margin) and it's 13.99 when the duty and VAT on duty is 13.74.

    They are assuming I go there to buy it, and buy other stuff while I'm there. The reality is I do most of my shopping in Lidl and buy their extremely cheap gin while I'm there :pac:

    The boxes of 330s of beer might not be loss leader - our beer duty is lower than the UK (also the boxes are often 300s....). Let me do the maths there.

    edit:

    Beer duty is €22.55 per % per hectolitre which is 22.55c per % per litre. Heineken is 4.3% in Ireland I believe, so 97c a litre; 1.20 with VAT

    20*330 = 6.60 litres, 7.20 of duty and VAT. So a box of 20 for 15 quid has a very significant retail and manufacturer margin there.

    This is why MUP will make beer a bit dearer in off-sales but will make spirits utterly insanely dear in off-sales. All done to pacify the publicans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,510 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    L1011 wrote: »
    By cost, I suspect the #1 item I buy in Lidl is their gin - its decent (better than Cork Dry by an incalculable margin) and it's 13.99 when the duty and VAT on duty is 13.74.
    There's loss leaders and then there's loss leaders. Pulling it out of the air type of guess, but surely the cost for producing their own-brand spirits must be €3-€4 with some more added for delivery and packaging. There's no way that LIDL are losing €4 - €5 a bottle on own-branded 40% spirits, is there? Better to not sell them at all and stick to the branded goods at a similar price level to the supermarkets.

    I'm always amazed when visiting a LIDL in Germany, where the same prosecco they sell in Ireland for ~€12 sells for €2. I'm not a prosecco drinker, but it gives you a better understanding of the value versus the perceived value of the contents of the bottle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,263 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    11.92 duty at 40%

    11.175 at 37.5%, add VAT = 13.75

    So at 13.99, then is 24 cent to cover product / transport / margins.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,470 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A ban on below-cost selling would put the price of a bottle of spirits to probably ~18 at the lowest; that would achieve most of the aims of the MUP policy without being clearly against EU law and forcing beer towards pub prices.

    Of course, forcing beer towards pub prices is all they want to do!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Geuze wrote: »
    11.92 duty at 40%

    11.175 at 37.5%, add VAT = 13.75

    So at 13.99, then is 24 cent to cover product / transport / margins.

    Are you only putting vat on the duty?
    The vat is on the purchase price (which includes the duty).

    Price ex vat =11.40
    Minus 11.92 = - 0.52

    It's a loss leader.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    L1011 wrote: »
    20*330 = 6.60 litres, 7.20 of duty and VAT. So a box of 20 for 15 quid has a very significant retail and manufacturer margin there.
    Yes, I used to always bring up the point that centra often sold cases of heineken for 15euro. This is not a shop where people were doing their weekly shop. Most I saw were not even buying a bar or anything else. The loss leader idea is never going to work in some shops.
    L1011 wrote: »
    This is why MUP will make beer a bit dearer in off-sales but will make spirits utterly insanely dear in off-sales. All done to pacify the publicans.
    Not sure if I understand you right. A 700ml bottle of 37.5% spirits will be able to be sold for 20.17 with MUP, no real change for bog standard branded spirits.

    I was saying this "health bill" could have the opposite effect, as many binge drinkers may turn to spirits instead of beer, same price per unit alcohol but many get more of the desired drunken effect from spirits.

    but surely the cost for producing their own-brand spirits must be €3-€4 with some more added for delivery and packaging.
    Vodka/ethanol is very cheap to make. But I also do not understand why they sell it at such an apparent loss.

    I have not seen examples of a breakdown of the figures where companies are claiming VAT back.

    https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/228306/cheap-booze-but-you-lose-supermarkets-toasting-e24m-vat-back-trick/
    Since 2006, when the Groceries Order was abolished, retailers in Ireland have been able to sell alcohol below cost — and then recover the VAT on the difference between the sale and cost price.


    A ban on "below cost selling" is what the shop actually paid, nothing to do with the cost of manufacture. I expect there are loopholes they could use. e.g. say tesco buy from a brewery, can A and can B, both actually identical beers. The brewery want to charge 50cent a can to make a profit. So I guess they could privately say "you have to buy the exact same amount of both beers and we will charge 10 cent for beer A and 90cent for beer B. So the supplier gets the same money but the invoice shows it was only 10 cent for beer A.


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