Why are 700 employed by the CSO instead of 250 ?

maryishere

According to an article in todays Irish Independent, the boss of the Central Statistics Office says the CSO has "a core staff of 700".

I was shocked the numbers there are so high, for a government body. The UK has a population 13.22 times that of Ireland, but their equivalent statistics office only employs 3302 people.


https://www.google.ie/search?biw=1094&bih=486&q=number+of+employees+in+office+for+national+statistics&oq=number+of+employees+in+office+for+national+statistics&gs_l=psy-ab.3...9153.33503.0.34848.92.66.0.0.0.0.177.7518.6j59.65.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..38.52.6048...0j46j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i46k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j0i8i13i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.0.lqACZkeET2M

If the taxpayers in Ireland were to employ the same percentage as they have in the UK, then only 250 would need to be employed in the CSO. Why the waste and inefficiency here?

Phoebas

Economies of scale?

We should probably have more people in the CSO, not less. We still have to produce more or less the same statistics - only the datasets are smaller.

Victor

Because certain tasks require the same number of people?

maryishere wrote: »

The UK has a population 13.22 times that of Ireland, but their equivalent statistics office only employs 3302 people.

By this reckoning, there should only be two government ministers in total, including hte Taoiseach.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

They have the economies of scale.

But, I feel your outrage. Time to call for a change of government over this.

Lord, people love to complain - so they are doing you a favour by providing an outlet for your ire.

Tis terruble isn’t it?

Shocking. Terrubull and shocking.

Sit down now and have a cup of tea. You got an awful shock alright.

Don’t worry about those oul’ messers in the CSO. Sure what would they be at doing the job the brits do with only 1/5 their headcount.

Shocking stuff.

maryishere

JayZeus wrote: »

Don’t worry about those oul’ messers in the CSO.

Ah sure you you are right. What do they do but things like work out where housing is needed in the future, so ghost estates are not built in the arse hole of nowhere and people have to commute long distances. Oh wait...

If we need to employ 700 when 250 would otherwise do a better job, it reminds me of the great Gay Byrnes favourite saying..."we got our independence, now we have to pay for it" ( through higher taxes, higher vehicle vrt, drink prices, higher vat, worse planning etc ).

maryishere

maryishere wrote: »

Ah sure you you are right. What do they do but things like work out where housing is needed in the future, so ghost estates are not built in the arse hole of nowhere and people have to commute long distances. Oh wait...

If we need to employ 700 when 250 would otherwise do a better job, it reminds me of the great Gay Byrnes favourite saying..."we got our independence, now we have to pay for it" ( through higher taxes, higher vehicle vrt, drink prices, higher vat, worse planning etc ).

Mary, it's not a simple proportional ratio that counts here. If you can't understand that bit, you won't understand any of it, so why would anyone waste their time trying to discuss it with you?

maryishere

Other countries with a similar population to Ireland have a much small statistics office than Irelands. Why is ours so high, supported by our taxes?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

maryishere wrote: »

Ah sure you you are right. What do they do but things like work out where housing is needed in the future, so ghost estates are not built in the arse hole of nowhere and people have to commute long distances. Oh wait...

If we need to employ 700 when 250 would otherwise do a better job, it reminds me of the great Gay Byrnes favourite saying..."we got our independence, now we have to pay for it" ( through higher taxes, higher vehicle vrt, drink prices, higher vat, worse planning etc ).

What?
Have you got some secret God-given insight into what everybody else does or is capable of? Everybody's wrong. Everything this country does is wrong.

You can't just take a population and use it for benchmarking on a straight line basis. I think it's pointless discussing the point with you though.

Sofiztikated

maryishere wrote: »

Other countries with a similar population to Ireland have a much small statistics office than Irelands. Why is ours so high, supported by our taxes?

Why is theirs so low?

By the way, you can't just arbitrarily just decide the CSO office has too many staff.

pummice

OP you are correct, 700 is outragous. And you can be sure they have the very latest Computer/IT kit to play with. And thats only their core staff - how many more contractors/advisors/ancillery staff have they?

kingchess

The New Zealand cso have nearly a thousand working there and the population is much the same as Ireland according to my Kiwi pal. a terrible waste of manpower as I so helpfully pointed out to him ,when compared to the political geniuses in the UK.

Noveight

maryishere wrote: »

Other countries with a similar population to Ireland have a much small statistics office than Irelands. Why is ours so high, supported by our taxes?

New Zealand has a marginally lower population than us and employs 930 people in their public service department Statistics New Zealand.

Noveight

kingchess wrote: »

The New Zealand cso have nearly a thousand working there and the population is much the same as Ireland according to my Kiwi pal. a terrible waste of manpower as I so helpfully pointed out to him ,when compared to the political geniuses in the UK.

Beat me to it

noodler

maryishere wrote: »

Other countries with a similar population to Ireland have a much small statistics office than Irelands. Why is ours so high, supported by our taxes?

Any evidence for that?

Other posters have confirmed NZ have more.

A statistics office isn't somewhere I'd want to be scrimping to be perfectly honest.

Victor

maryishere wrote: »

Other countries with a similar population to Ireland have a much small statistics office than Irelands.

Would you have some examples?

Why is ours so high

Maybe the UK uses a contractor for lots of the work.

Duckworth_Luas

Used to use CSO data to perform statistical analysis of the 26 counties population. They really do an excellent job. When I tried to scale it up for an all Ireland analysis I had to drop half of my variables as their NI/UK equivalent don't go into as much detail. All freely available online.

maryishere

I would not mind paying the extra for our CSO if they were competent at their job. However, the full page interview with the director general of the CSO on page 5 of Business Week, the suppliment in yesterdays Irish Independent, raises questions. For example, in the ninth paragraph of the second column he states "We know how many (tourists) come in to the country and how much they are spending, but we don't know where they are going". Read it yourself. It reminds me of a hotelier in another interview once giving out about how useless the CSO was he was looking for details as part of the evaluation of a project.

Its not just those people stuck in commuter towns, or the people affected by ghost estates in parts of the country, or the people affected by sky high property prices / hotel room prices in Dublin etc, who wonder what the cso are up to. How does 700 of them get it so wrong in Ireland when 3000 of them get it right in the UK, a country 13 times our size? It does not add up.

Cee-Jay-Cee

maryishere wrote: »

I would not mind paying the extra for our CSO if they were competent at their job. However, the full page interview with the director general of the CSO on page 5 of Business Week, the suppliment in yesterdays Irish Independent, raises questions. For example, in the ninth paragraph of the second column he states "We know how many (tourists) come in to the country and how much they are spending, but we don't know where they are going". Read it yourself. It reminds me of a hotelier in another interview once giving out about how useless the CSO was he was looking for details as part of the evaluation of a project.

Its not just those people stuck in commuter towns, or the people affected by ghost estates in parts of the country, or the people affected by sky high property prices / hotel room prices in Dublin etc, who wonder what the cso are up to. How does 700 of them get it so wrong in Ireland when 3000 of them get it right in the UK, a country 13 times our size? It does not add up.

Typical ridiculous nonsensical argument by begrudging Irish people. Where is your data/proof that the UK office gets it right or works so wonderfully? Can you point me to where on the UK site they have data to show where their tourists are going? You seem to have studied both in great detail so provide some links to facts and figure to back up your arguments.

And considering you are such an expert on the subject, why don't you offer the CSO some of your wisdom on how they can track the movements of all the tourists visiting this country.

Kimbot

maryishere wrote: »

I would not mind paying the extra for our CSO if they were competent at their job. However, the full page interview with the director general of the CSO on page 5 of Business Week, the suppliment in yesterdays Irish Independent, raises questions. For example, in the ninth paragraph of the second column he states "We know how many (tourists) come in to the country and how much they are spending, but we don't know where they are going". Read it yourself. It reminds me of a hotelier in another interview once giving out about how useless the CSO was he was looking for details as part of the evaluation of a project.

Its not just those people stuck in commuter towns, or the people affected by ghost estates in parts of the country, or the people affected by sky high property prices / hotel room prices in Dublin etc, who wonder what the cso are up to. How does 700 of them get it so wrong in Ireland when 3000 of them get it right in the UK, a country 13 times our size? It does not add up.

Why dont you apply to become the CEO then and reduce the staffing numbers to 250 and see how you get on.

ohnonotgmail

maryishere wrote: »

I would not mind paying the extra for our CSO if they were competent at their job. However, the full page interview with the director general of the CSO on page 5 of Business Week, the suppliment in yesterdays Irish Independent, raises questions. For example, in the ninth paragraph of the second column he states "We know how many (tourists) come in to the country and how much they are spending, but we don't know where they are going". Read it yourself. It reminds me of a hotelier in another interview once giving out about how useless the CSO was he was looking for details as part of the evaluation of a project.

Its not just those people stuck in commuter towns, or the people affected by ghost estates in parts of the country, or the people affected by sky high property prices / hotel room prices in Dublin etc, who wonder what the cso are up to. How does 700 of them get it so wrong in Ireland when 3000 of them get it right in the UK, a country 13 times our size? It does not add up.

they do? you must work with a different set of government officials than i do on a regular basis.

Badly Drunk Boy

maryishere wrote: »

Its not just those people stuck in commuter towns, or the people affected by ghost estates in parts of the country, or the people affected by sky high property prices / hotel room prices in Dublin etc, who wonder what the cso are up to. How does 700 of them get it so wrong in Ireland when 3000 of them get it right in the UK, a country 13 times our size? It does not add up.

Duckworth_Luas has just said above that the UK stats were inferior to the Republic's when he tried to use them in an All-Ireland analysis. What's the deal with that?

Paulzx

maryishere wrote: »

Its not just those people stuck in commuter towns, or the people affected by ghost estates in parts of the country, or the people affected by sky high property prices / hotel room prices in Dublin etc, who wonder what the cso are up to. .

What a ridiculous comment.

The CSO's role is to provide accurate data and statistics in a huge amount of areas from population to agriculture to economics.

It is not a policy creating body. The factual data it provides is used by the policy makers to plan and create policy.

Ghost estates have much more to do with the the local councillor in ballygo backwards voting to rezone his mate Mickey Joes swampy field in order to build 200 unwanted houses on it than any connection to the CSO.

You really need to actually research from the point of gaining accurate information on which to base an arguement. Coming up with an opinion and then creating or twisting "facts" to argue it is not actually research!!

You'll never get a job in the CSO. That's certain:pac:

Grayson

maryishere wrote: »

I would not mind paying the extra for our CSO if they were competent at their job. However, the full page interview with the director general of the CSO on page 5 of Business Week, the suppliment in yesterdays Irish Independent, raises questions. For example, in the ninth paragraph of the second column he states "We know how many (tourists) come in to the country and how much they are spending, but we don't know where they are going". Read it yourself. It reminds me of a hotelier in another interview once giving out about how useless the CSO was he was looking for details as part of the evaluation of a project.

Its not just those people stuck in commuter towns, or the people affected by ghost estates in parts of the country, or the people affected by sky high property prices / hotel room prices in Dublin etc, who wonder what the cso are up to. How does 700 of them get it so wrong in Ireland when 3000 of them get it right in the UK, a country 13 times our size? It does not add up.

Maths is complicated. Why don't you go and do a degree in maths and then reread the article. It'll make sense then.

I am outraged by something I don't fully understand.

OldGoat

Irish census every 5 years, UK census every 10 years. That makes us double plus good on efficiency.

super_furry

Statistically speaking, how shocked were you?

amcalester

I don't think Mary really understands what the CSO does or doesn't do.

murpho999

I find it ironic that the OP uses statistics to complain about the staffing at the Central Statistics Office.

4068ac1elhodqr

Send in the Robots.
55.489% chance some AI-bot with quantum machine self-learning, will be able to replace bean-counting type powerpoints, pre-2025.

noodler

maryishere wrote: »

I would not mind paying the extra for our CSO if they were competent at their job. However, the full page interview with the director general of the CSO on page 5 of Business Week, the suppliment in yesterdays Irish Independent, raises questions. For example, in the ninth paragraph of the second column he states "We know how many (tourists) come in to the country and how much they are spending, but we don't know where they are going". Read it yourself. It reminds me of a hotelier in another interview once giving out about how useless the CSO was he was looking for details as part of the evaluation of a project.

Its not just those people stuck in commuter towns, or the people affected by ghost estates in parts of the country, or the people affected by sky high property prices / hotel room prices in Dublin etc, who wonder what the cso are up to. How does 700 of them get it so wrong in Ireland when 3000 of them get it right in the UK, a country 13 times our size? It does not add up.

Please stop, you are embarrassing yourself.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

A public service bashing thread that hasn't caught on in AH, what the hell is going on here?!?! :pac:

Nice try, Mary

keith_sixteen

murpho999 wrote: »

I find it ironic that the OP misuses statistics to complain about the staffing at the Central Statistics Office.

Fixed your post.

endacl

maryishere wrote: »

According to an article in todays Irish Independent, the boss of the Central Statistics Office says the CSO has "a core staff of 700".

I was shocked the numbers there are so high, for a government body. The UK has a population 13.22 times that of Ireland, but their equivalent statistics office only employs 3302 people.


https://www.google.ie/search?biw=1094&bih=486&q=number+of+employees+in+office+for+national+statistics&oq=number+of+employees+in+office+for+national+statistics&gs_l=psy-ab.3...9153.33503.0.34848.92.66.0.0.0.0.177.7518.6j59.65.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..38.52.6048...0j46j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i46k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j0i8i13i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.0.lqACZkeET2M

If the taxpayers in Ireland were to employ the same percentage as they have in the UK, then only 250 would need to be employed in the CSO. Why the waste and inefficiency here?

Did they work during the storm? Should they make up the hours? Do they ever think of the children at all?

Aglomerado

keith_sixteen wrote: »

Fixed your post.

"Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination." - Andrew Lang

Gulliver

I love statistics.

Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.

If there is a 50-50 chance that something can go wrong, then 9 times out of ten it will.

Are Am Eye

I like the way some of the figures used to argue for a reduction in the CSO have been produced by the CSO. Ha, hoisted on your own petard statisticians.

endacl

Aglomerado wrote: »

"Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination." - Andrew Lang

I gave her the same quote over on the teacher bahing thread! Didn’t do much good there either...

Dravokivich

JayZeus wrote: »

Mary, it's not a simple proportional ratio that counts here. If you can't understand that bit, you won't understand any of it, so why would anyone waste their time trying to discuss it with you?

If it's not understood, would you be wasting your time explaining, or at least attempting to?

endacl

Dravokivich wrote: »

If it's not understood, would you be wasting your time explaining, or at least attempting to?

That has been the experience thus far. Mind is made up and closed up.

pjohnson

Mary can you explain with statistics again the problem please?

server down

It’s actually one of the civil services’s finest departments. That and finance are pretty good.

Allinall

You do realize, OP the irony of the fact that if we didn't have 700 diligent people working in the CSO, you may not have had the figures accurately supplied to enable you start this ridiculous thread.