M1 vs N1 on logbooks of Hyundai Santa Fe's

lilyzadi

Looking to see if anyone has had a similar experience...

Went to tax a commercial jeep today at the commercial rate.

I had all the necessary paperwork.

I was asked if this was a conversion I was doing as it was down as M1 on the logbook (section J.1 EU Vehicle Category) as opposed to N1. I was not. :rolleyes:

M1 being motor vehicles having at least four wheels and for the carriage of passengers and N1 being power-driven vehicles having at least four wheels and for the carriage of goods.

So yes, the vehicle category has been WRONG for the last 9 years.

However, the jeep is down as OWN GOODS in section J.2 Motor Taxation Class and so the jeep has been taxed at the commercial rate for the last 9 years.

The error was made day one on the logbook and clearly IGNORED for the last 9 years, this vehicle was never an M1 i.e. passenger i.e. it NEVER had seats.

Today I was told that I would have to get a 'correction' form from an assessors at a cost of €185 plus another €20 to weigh it afterwards, then I could tax it at the commercial rate.

When I enquired as to whether every Santa Fe in the country had the same problem I got a 'probably yes' as an answer.

And so... I am here looking to see if this has happened to anybody else thus far and how you dealt with it. I.e. did you do the conversion or kick & scream & get some sort of compromise.

I most certainly don't feel like forking out over €200 to fix someone else's error, and one that has been intentionally ignored by other tax office's over the past number of years.

I am a new owner of this vehicle and it is my first time taxing it, hence why I am facing this issue.

colm_mcm

ISnt there a distinction between factory conversions? The Santa Fe’s would have been done in Ireland.

It is possible you got the wrong person on the day.

lilyzadi

colm_mcm wrote: »

ISnt there a distinction between factory conversions? The Santa Fe’s would have been done in Ireland.

It is possible you got the wrong person on the day.

Yep as far as I am aware all conversions were done in Ireland.

How do you mean I got the wrong person on the day?

colm_mcm

I mean there mightn’t actually be an issue.

lilyzadi

colm_mcm wrote: »

I mean there mightn’t actually be an issue.

That's the last thing I need to hear. :rolleyes:

I may just drive to a different county & tax it there. Would that be viable I wonder?

CiniO

If vehicle is as M1 category on logbook then it can't be taxed as commercial.

lilyzadi

CiniO wrote: »

If vehicle is as M1 category on logbook then it can't be taxed as commercial.

And yet it has been taxed as commercial at a rate of €333 for the last 9 years so explain that one. I might add that it is down as 'Own Goods' on the tax class. Tell me how you can put a passenger vehicle in an 'Own Goods' class. :mad:

CiniO

lilyzadi wrote: »

And yet it has been taxed as commercial at a rate of €333 for the last 9 years so explain that one. I might add that it is down as 'Own Goods' on the tax class. Tell me how you can put a passenger vehicle in an 'Own Goods' class. :mad:

Only explanation is mistake somewhere in the process.
Normally if everyone would do the job right, then either your vehicle would be N1 category, or would never be taxed as commercial.

E30i

Is it possible to Tax it online or does it have to be done in person? I'm not familiar with the current process for Commercial vehicles.

lilyzadi

CiniO wrote: »

Only explanation is mistake somewhere in the process.
Normally if everyone would do the job right, then either your vehicle would be N1 category, or would never be taxed as commercial.

It just irks me that I have to pay €410 to fix someone else's mistake.

My suspicion is that every one of these Santa Fe's were put down as M1 so must have been a Revenue mistake day one. This makes the average person having to pay over €200 to rectify it, so unfair.

lilyzadi

E30i wrote: »

Is it possible to Tax it online or does it have to be done in person? I'm not familiar with the current process for Commercial vehicles.

You always have to present in person when commercially taxing a vehicle for the first time yourself. After this you can renew it online.

colm_mcm

CiniO wrote: »

If vehicle is as M1 category on logbook then it can't be taxed as commercial.

Am I right in saying a car that started out from factory as M1 can never be N1?

lilyzadi

colm_mcm wrote: »

Am I right in saying a car that started out from factory as M1 can never be N1?

I have no idea colm_mcm sorry!

Update after 100 phonecalls up and down the country today is to fill out a VRT19 form and send to the elusive Rosslare along with the logbook.

I don't have my hopes up but I have another vehicle so under no pressure for time. I can wait weeks if I have to.

Del2005

lilyzadi wrote: »

And yet it has been taxed as commercial at a rate of €333 for the last 9 years so explain that one. I might add that it is down as 'Own Goods' on the tax class. Tell me how you can put a passenger vehicle in an 'Own Goods' class. :mad:

The explanation is that the people have being abusing commercial tax for years and now they are finally starting to enforce the restrictions. The abuse of the system has led to this.

lilyzadi

Del2005 wrote: »

The explanation is that the people have being abusing commercial tax for years and now they are finally starting to enforce the restrictions. The abuse of the system has led to this.

No sorry, I don't accept this.
You can't tax a passenger vehicle at the commercial rate.
In no way shape or form should that be possible, yet that is what they have been doing for the last 9 years and I am now expected to pay just because the local authority are finally starting to do their jobs properly. No thanks. :eek:

hi5

It's a legacy thing, strict EU type approval came in from 2011 to 2014, before that you could just tax it based on business use.

https://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services/Certification/Automotive-Certification/Type-Approval/Type-Approval.aspx

colm_mcm

OP does your Santa Fe have manual air conditioning or climate control?

Manual air conditioning


Climate control

Ignore the radio

Del2005

lilyzadi wrote: »

No sorry, I don't accept this.
You can't tax a passenger vehicle at the commercial rate.
In no way shape or form should that be possible, yet that is what they have been doing for the last 9 years and I am now expected to pay just because the local authority are finally starting to do their jobs properly. No thanks. :eek:

So therefore you owe several thousand Euro for incorrect tax then. It's always the person paying the taxes responsibly to ensure that they are compliant, so you've been avoiding tax for 9 years and are lucky to be only made pay the correct rate now and aren't being chased for the back tax.

colm_mcm

Del2005 wrote: »

So therefore you owe several thousand Euro for incorrect tax then. It's always the person paying the taxes responsibly to ensure that they are compliant, so you've been avoiding tax for 9 years and are lucky to be only made pay the correct rate now and aren't being chased for the back tax.

That's nonsense.
apart from anything, the OP has never taxed this jeep before.

lilyzadi

hi5 wrote: »

It's a legacy thing, strict EU type approval came in from 2011 to 2014, before that you could just tax it based on business use.

https://www.nsai.ie/Our-Services/Certification/Automotive-Certification/Type-Approval/Type-Approval.aspx

Yep, this is the key to the mystery! You are correct, thank you.

I have been told at my local motor tax office that this change came in 2011 but they 'only received the email to enforce it about 18 months ago'.

The update so far is that I have filled in a VRT19 form and forwarded it to the Central Vehicle Office in Rosslare.

The VRT Category on my jeep is C i.e. commercial, meaning that the VRT paid day one was paid at a commercial rate so there should be no issue in Revenue amending my logbook.

I checked a few more Santa Fe registrations and some do appear to be in the N1 category so unfortunately I haven't yet discovered the reasoning for it.

lilyzadi

colm_mcm wrote: »

OP does your Santa Fe have manual air conditioning or climate control?

Manual air conditioning


Climate control

Ignore the radio

I have manual air conditioning colm_mcm!

lilyzadi

Del2005 wrote: »

So therefore you owe several thousand Euro for incorrect tax then. It's always the person paying the taxes responsibly to ensure that they are compliant, so you've been avoiding tax for 9 years and are lucky to be only made pay the correct rate now and aren't being chased for the back tax.

If you wouldn't mind just reading the original post as it says:

"I am a new owner of this vehicle and it is my first time taxing it, hence why I am facing this issue."

I was wondering where all the usual keyboard warriors were on this thread. Phew. :rolleyes:

colm_mcm

lilyzadi wrote: »

I have manual air conditioning colm_mcm!

That's always a good indicator that it was a commercial from day 1.

That being said, when the arse fell out of the building trade, they had a batch of 4WD 5 seaters with manual AC (this was the spec they brought in specifically to convert) which they didn't bother converting and sold as passengers. Not a lot of these about but they're out there! Usually they'd have climate, 7 seats and 2WD

lilyzadi

colm_mcm wrote: »

That's always a good indicator that it was a commercial from day 1.

That being said, when the arse fell out of the building trade, they had a batch of 4WD 5 seaters with manual AC (this was the spec they brought in specifically to convert) which they didn't bother converting and sold as passengers. Not a lot of these about but they're out there! Usually they'd have climate, 7 seats and 2WD

Thanks colm_mcm yes they were definitely originally commercial.
I submitted the documents online yesterday through ROS as instructed by the lady in the CVO, Rosslare. Received a reply today to send them in the post! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The fun begins...

Diageo1

Hi I find myself in the same position
Can you give an update as to how it panned out?

Did it take long to get the new logbook back with N1 rating?

George Dalton

My experience of dealing with motor tax offices is that the systems are such that any of the staff can do whatever they feel like on any given day. There are no automated checks built in.

So in this example you would assume that when the person behind the counter tried to apply commercial tax to a private vehicle that the system would prevent them from doing that. However this does not seem to be the case.

I’ve seen pre 2008 cars taxed on CO2
I’ve seen vans taxed on CO2
I’ve seen people get motor tax refunds for cars they have traded in

None of the above should be possible, but they have happened.