Hurricane day?

s15r330

So like a lot of places my office was closed on Monday due to the weather.
One of the girls was told that we have to makeup the time or use an annual leave day.
Surely can't make us use an annual leave day, it wasn't a day off by choice.

Meeeee79

Do you have a contract? If so, see does it mention anything about "force Majeure" leave.

s15r330

Meeeee79 wrote: »

Do you have a contract? If so, see does it mention anything about "force Majeure" leave.

I do, will have to find it!
They closed the office and emailed us telling us to stay home so hopefully tgey can't make us use annual leave

toadfly

FM has nothing to do with leave for extreme weather. They don't have to pay you. There is another thread in this forum, have a look at it.

Meeeee79

toadfly wrote: »

FM has nothing to do with leave for extreme weather..

What makes you say that and what is your understanding of FM?

davo10

Meeeee79 wrote: »

Do you have a contract? If so, see does it mention anything about "force Majeure" leave.

Wrong, FM leave has nothing to do with weather.

https://employmentrightsireland.com/tag/force-majeure/

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/30/section/13/enacted/en/html


http://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/finance/2010/05.pdf


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/types_of_leave_from_work.html

toadfly

Meeeee79 wrote: »

What makes you say that and what is your understanding of FM?

Read up on it and come back to me

Meeeee79

toadfly wrote: »

Read up on it and come back to me

I wasnt being smart, I was looking for advise. Never Mind.

amtc

I replied to the other thread. Fm under employment law is when someone else cannot perform duties only you can do. For example I slipped in work and couldn't drive or indeed move so my mam took a force majeure day. She also took one when the house was broken into. However and I was in the Supreme Court with this when An Post applied for blanket Force Majeure leave for its obligation and hence staff in 2010. It would have been fined for not carrying out daily delivery if not received.

_Brian

I think expecting FM for a weather event is going against the spirit of the act.
It was intended for emergency events that could only be dealt with by you and only your presence, sick kid etc.

Using it for rainy days will dilute its intention and so in time it will be poorly regarded as a much needed fall back when there is absolutely no other option in an emergency.

A weather storm that was predicted days in advance is no such emergency.

For those without tue option to make back the hours, the option is zero pay or annual leave.

I’ve allowed staff to choose themselves. It will be an even split between annual leave and making back the hours.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

I think expecting FM for a weather event is going against the spirit of the act.
It was intended for emergency events that could only be dealt with by you and only your presence, sick kid etc.

Using it for rainy days will dilute its intention and so in time it will be poorly regarded as a much needed fall back when there is absolutely no other option in an emergency.

A weather storm that was predicted days in advance is no such emergency.

For those without tue option to make back the hours, the option is zero pay or annual leave.

I’ve allowed staff to choose themselves. It will be an even split between annual leave and making back the hours.

Or, the employer could use this rare event to show some appreciation to their hard working employees, and not expect them to take annual leave/work back the hours, for a situation that was completely out of their employees hands

Making back the hours, holy smoke

s15r330

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Or, the employer could use this rare event to show some appreciation to their hard working employees, and not expect them to take annual leave/work back the hours, for a situation that was completely out of their employees hands

Making back the hours, holy smoke

Exactly, make up hours that were missed through no fault of their own. F*ck that

ibarelycare

Making employees pay for the day off themselves is completely scabby. I think employers are within the law doing so, but it shows complete disregard for employees who were available for, and who wanted to work that day. The whole country was practically shut down ffs. Chalk it down to a once-in-a-lifetime situation and keep the respect and morale of your staff.

kaners87

As per advice from Citizens Advice:

If you were unable to attend work that day and your place of employment was open, then technically you may have to take it as annual leave or work back the hours.

If your place of employment was closed then they can't take it as annual leave as you were available to work. You may run into a grey area where staff notified employer of intention not to go to work and due to staff shortage a business was forced to close as a direct result of this.

TaurenDruid

_Brian wrote: »

I think expecting FM for a weather event is going against the spirit of the act.
It was intended for emergency events that could only be dealt with by you and only your presence, sick kid etc.

Using it for rainy days will dilute its intention and so in time it will be poorly regarded as a much needed fall back when there is absolutely no other option in an emergency.

A weather storm that was predicted days in advance is no such emergency.

Jesus. It wasn't a "rainy day". It was a nationwide red weather warning due to a hurricane, that resulted in the loss of the lives of three people.

The storm/hurricane was predicted, but the red weather warning was only extended from southern and western counties to the entire country the evening before.

With schools - and creches - being ordered to close at short notice then absolutely, force majeure would apply to tens of thousands of workers who are parents of young children.

And as said by others: "Or, the employer could use this rare event to show some appreciation to their hard working employees, and not expect them to take annual leave/work back the hours, for a situation that was completely out of their employees hands."

amtc

Like I said in the other thread Force Majeure whilst defined is also subject to interpretation. Whilst for example there is a school of thought that industrial action is not force majeure there are cases where it has been found to be. During the snow in 2010 An Post applied for force majeure which was granted under appeal in the Supreme Court and later by ComReg and international postal unions in the second round of snow.

georgewickstaff

Always delightful to see the IBEC lot wringing the last drop out of the unsure and worriers