Loophole closed?

Titzon Toast

Looks like they've closed the change of ownership trick to avoid paying back dated tax on your own car.
That's according to their website anyway.

Mine's out 3 months on a pre 2008 2 litre, stinger.

jca

How is that being implemented?

unkel

Titzon Toast wrote: »

That's according to their website anyway.

Link?

boardsuser1

I've had a good look around, i can't find anything.

Where on the motortax website did you see it?

grogi

unkel wrote: »

Link?

Yawns

Love to know how they are going to close it. New owner can't be liable for unpaid tax. How are they gonna force an old owner to cough up money for tax due on a car they no longer own. The current state of play is fine for them as long as the gardaí enforce the law.

grogi

Yawns wrote: »

Love to know how they are going to close it. New owner can't be liable for unpaid tax. How are they gonna force an old owner to cough up money for tax due on a car they no longer own. The current state of play is fine for them as long as the gardaí enforce the law.

Very simple: reduce the tax credit with the amount owned.

Jobs OXO

Yawns wrote: »

Love to know how they are going to close it. New owner can't be liable for unpaid tax. How are they gonna force an old owner to cough up money for tax due on a car they no longer own. The current state of play is fine for them as long as the gardaí enforce the law.

Why can't they make the new owner liable? That would ensure cars will would need to be taxed to be able to be sold or else have the sale price discounted by what is owed so buyer isn't out of pocket.

boardsuser1

grogi wrote: »

Very simple: reduce the tax credit with the amount owned.

If they don’t work their tax credit can’t be reduced.

Will they bring the former owner to court for outstanding tax?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Why can't they make the new owner liable? That would ensure cars will would need to be taxed to be able to be sold or else have the sale price discounted by what is owed so buyer isn't out of pocket.

And what ultimately happens is that tax cost is added onto the buying price as Seller’s don’t want to lose out either.

unkel

Yawns wrote: »

Love to know how they are going to close it.

Probably the same way that it is working fine in most other countries. If your car is not SORN (declared off the road), you will automatically get fines in the post if the car is not taxed. These fines are of course a lot higher than the actual tax due. Not like the fixed €60 fines on cars which cost €1809 to tax. Or guards saying "ah you're grand, please tax it next time". Big deterrent that.

Jobs OXO

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Why can't they make the new owner liable? That would ensure cars will would need to be taxed to be able to be sold or else have the sale price discounted by what is owed so buyer isn't out of pocket.

Surprised they're not doing it to be honest. Their friends in the 'motor industry' would love it, seen as it'd do major damage to the 2nd hand market.

NinjaTruncs

Yawns wrote: »

Love to know how they are going to close it. New owner can't be liable for unpaid tax. How are they gonna force an old owner to cough up money for tax due on a car they no longer own. The current state of play is fine for them as long as the gardaí enforce the law.

Just don't allow change of ownership while there are any tax arrears. Buyers won't buy the car if there is any arrears as they wouldn't be able to get it into their name.

Jobs OXO

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

And what ultimately happens is that tax cost is added onto the buying price as Seller’s don’t want to lose out either.

Or cars that's are properly taxed sell and those that aren't won't.

gonko

This wont happen hopefully. Car tax in this country is a joke.

grogi

gonko wrote: »

This wont happen hopefully.

I certainly hope it will happen. There are enough chances around.

gonko wrote: »

Car tax in this country is a joke.

There are parts of it that are less than ideal, like the fact you cannot suspend the already paid tax if your car gets out of the road or official way to check if car is taxed.

But overall I don't understand your sentiment - unless it is against taxation in general.

Titzon Toast

unkel wrote: »

Link?

Apologies, I can't give you a link, my friend who I asked to "buy" the car off me just rang me and said he spotted it on the motortax website.

I think he might have just bottled it, I hope he hasn't and I can still pull this trick.
I really don't fancy shelling out the guts of 400 quid this side of Christmas.

Titzon Toast

grogi wrote: »

I certainly hope it will happen. There are enough chances around.



There are parts of it that are less than ideal, like the fact you cannot suspend the already paid tax if your car gets out of the road or official way to check if car is taxed.

But overall I don't understand your sentiment - unless it is against taxation in general.

The dual band tax system is a joke. I like older cars but they're prohibitively expensive to tax in this country.

grogi

Titzon Toast wrote: »

The dual band tax system is a joke. I like older cars but they're prohibitively expensive to tax in this country.

Yet you are forgetting they are incredibile affordable because of the tax.

Identical cars, one from 2007 and 2008, can differ in purchase price by thousands. That's not only depreciation to blame.

Yawns

unkel wrote: »

Probably the same way that it is working fine in most other countries. If your car is not SORN (declared off the road), you will automatically get fines in the post if the car is not taxed. These fines are of course a lot higher than the actual tax due. Not like the fixed €60 fines on cars which cost €1809 to tax. Or guards saying "ah you're grand, please tax it next time". Big deterrent that.

This is the one method that would work the best. I can't agree with the others such as not allowing car to be sold or buyer must pay tax.

Buyers will refuse to pay arrears, sellers won't get much of a chance to up the market rate by including the arrears as the arrears can vary depending on how long the tax is out.

Fines for non SORN'd cars would work but like unkel said, only if they are hefty fines.

gonko

grogi wrote: »

I certainly hope it will happen. There are enough chances around.



There are parts of it that are less than ideal, like the fact you cannot suspend the already paid tax if your car gets out of the road or official way to check if car is taxed.

But overall I don't understand your sentiment - unless it is against taxation in general.

I drive a super low emission hybrid car, and I am asked to pay 1800 per year. Not to mention what I pay in income taxes etc . And the same car, a few years younger is 800-900. How is this fair. Would you pay it and be taken for a mug??

How is 1800 per year fair on a hybrid? Consider what we pay on fuel etc. It is morally wrong.

grogi

Yawns wrote: »

Buyers will refuse to pay arrears, sellers won't get much of a chance to up the market rate by including the arrears as the arrears can vary depending on how long the tax is out.

If you up the price too much, nobody will buy the bloody thing.

grogi

gonko wrote: »

I drive a super low emission hybrid car, and I am asked to pay 1800 per year. Not to mention what I pay in income taxes etc . And the same car, a few years younger is 800-900. How is this fair. Would you pay it and be taken for a mug??

How is 1800 per year fair on a hybrid? Consider what we pay on fuel etc. It is morally wrong.

And how much did you pay for your Lexus ?! I bet less than 5k... If it was on 750 rate, you would pay twice that...

s15r330

grogi wrote: »

And how much did you pay for your Lexus ?! I bet less than 5k... If it was on 750 rate, you would pay twice that...

The fact that the market price has developed that way is due to the unfair tax. I'd rather pay a happy medium and affordable tax than fork out a ridiculous 1800 per year for absolutely nothing

gonko

grogi wrote: »

And how much did you pay for your Lexus ?! I bet less than 5k... If it was on 750 rate, you would pay twice that...

More than 5k actually. Price I paid has nothing to do with tax bands being charged.

Stick to topic.

Dravokivich

gonko wrote: »

I drive a super low emission hybrid car, and I am asked to pay 1800 per year. Not to mention what I pay in income taxes etc . And the same car, a few years younger is 800-900. How is this fair. Would you pay it and be taken for a mug??

How is 1800 per year fair on a hybrid? Consider what we pay on fuel etc. It is morally wrong.

You didn't know how much the tax cost when you bought it?

Yawns

grogi wrote: »

If you up the price too much, nobody will buy the bloody thing.

At which point it will be too much to pay tax arrears and not enough money when sold to cover the arrears. It'll be scapped and tax arrears ignored etc.

Unkels idea could work and does in other countries he has said. Seems simpler. That or the usual idea of tax on fuel but I wouldn't trust our lot to keep the cost down or in a few years time to re-introduce motortax on top of keeping the fuel taxes the same or higher.

ION08

Titzon Toast wrote: »

Looks like they've closed the change of ownership trick to avoid paying back dated tax on your own car.
That's according to their website anyway.

.....

Titzon Toast wrote: »

Apologies, I can't give you a link, my friend who I asked to "buy" the car off me just rang me and said he spotted it on the motortax website.

Yet you sounded so certain and conclusive in your first post :rolleyes:

If you go ahead and NOT post this type of crap without having anything to back it up other than a mates hearsay , that would be great.

gonko

s15r330 wrote: »

The fact that the market price has developed that way is due to the unfair tax. I'd rather pay a happy medium and affordable tax than fork out a ridiculous 1800 per year for absolutely nothing

I've not paid it since owning the car. It's cheaper for me to have it impounded and pay the release etc.

s15r330

Dravokivich wrote: »

You didn't know how much the tax cost when you bought it?

That doesn't make it right or fair

gonko

Dravokivich wrote: »

You didn't know how much the tax cost when you bought it?

Of course I did.....whats your point?

elperello

ION08 wrote: »

.....


Yet you sounded so certain and conclusive in your first post :rolleyes:

If you go ahead and NOT post this type of crap without having anything to back it up other than a mates hearsay , that would be great.

Ah don't be so harsh.
Great adrenaline rush for a Wednesday morning.
"Fear and loathing in the dodgy motor community!!"

grogi

Yawns wrote: »

At which point it will be too much to pay tax arrears and not enough money when sold to cover the arrears. It'll be scapped and tax arrears ignored etc.

You're right.

grogi

gonko wrote: »

Price I paid has nothing to do with tax bands being charged.

Of course it does.

Price reflects the value and maintenance costs. A car with high tax is more expensive to run, thus it's purchase price reflects it.

fancy pigeon

From the motor tax website



Where did you get the other info from?

jjj.png

gonko

grogi wrote: »

Of course it does.

Price reflects the value and maintenance costs. A car with high tax is more expensive to run, thus it's purchase price reflects it.

We are talking about TAX. TAX.
You keep mentioning the price of cars etc. Who cares. This discussion is about tax....nothing else. I couldnt care how much cars cost. I buy a car I like and off I go.

gonko

fancy pigeon wrote: »

From the motor tax website



Where did you get the other info from?

jjj.png

So no change. Arrears apply from the start of the new month after ownership change. That is how it is currently.

ION08

elperello wrote: »

Ah don't be so harsh.
Great adrenaline rush for a Wednesday morning.
"Fear and loathing in the dodgy motor community!!"

Yeah, I heard from a mate down at the pub that they're getting rid of VRT!!.. It says so on their website.

Going to start a New Thread about it now, brb!!!

fancy pigeon

ION08 wrote: »

Yeah, I heard from a mate down at the pub that they're getting rid of VRT!!.. It says so on their website.

Going to start a New Thread about it now, brb!!!

I would print the page above and shove it up their... tax disc holder

Titzon Toast

ION08 wrote: »

.....


Yet you sounded so certain and conclusive in your first post :rolleyes:

If you go ahead and NOT post this type of crap without having anything to back it up other than a mates hearsay , that would be great.

Yet you failed to spot the question mark in my title?
If you go ahead and NOT post this type of crap without reading the OP first that would be great also.

Toyotafanboi