SIRO with a powerline adaptor

SeanF

Hi,

I was about to get SIRO installed today, but unfortunately we had to cancel because of some wiring issues from my house to my garden office.

Currently I have a physical CAT6 cable that runs from my current Vodafone modem through a wall, and under the garden to the office. I also use a powerline adaptor (a TP-Link AV600) so that I can get wifi in the office. Very happy with the setup.

But I now have the opportunity to get SIRO gigabit installed, but unfortunately the only way I can connect my office to the new SIRO modem is to dig into the garden again, and also lift some patio tiles to get the office CAT6 cable to the new modem, which would be located on the other side of the house. I can get the previous landscaper to do this, but obviously it'll cost me.

On the other hand, I'm thinking that if I connect my laptop to the TP-Link (it also has a network port), I might actually get higher speeds than I'm getting now anyway. So even though I'm not going direct with a CAT6, it might be the case that I'm better off getting SIRO anyway. I could get the landscaper in a year or two anyway if I wanted to get the max possible speed.

Has anyone had any experience of SIRO with this sort of setup? If I go for SIRO there's no going back.

georgewickstaff

How about mesh wifi?

Google Wifi and connect a switch via Ethernet in your office.

SeanF

georgewickstaff wrote: »

How about mesh wifi?

Google Wifi and connect a switch via Ethernet in your office.

Maybe, but I'd prefer a physical connection if possible. Not sure wifi would get across the garden very well.

Johnboy1951

Is there no way to connect the location of the current Vodafone modem to the new SIRO connection point?
It might be easier do than all that digging and landscaping ..... even if it meant taking an ethernet cable outside and back in again?

SeanF

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is there no way to connect the location of the current Vodafone modem to the new SIRO connection point?
It might be easier do than all that digging and landscaping ..... even if it meant taking an ethernet cable outside and back in again?

That's a possibility - I certainly can't go through the house, that's for sure. I can over the roof, but it will look very messy, in fact I know my wife wouldn't let me do it.

ctlsleh

SeanF wrote: »

That's a possibility - I certainly can't go through the house, that's for sure. I can over the roof, but it will look very messy, in fact I know my wife wouldn't let me do it.

Is it true to say that the only purpose of the av600 is for wifi? i.e. that you only use one Av600.....? and therefore you're not actually using the powerline capabilities at all?
the way around this is to use powerline from your new Siro location, so connect a LAN output from your new Siro modem to another powerline adapter (non Wifi version) beside it, that will communicate to the powerline you have in your office and you still get the same functionality.in that case, your cat 5 cable becomes redundant.
Alternatively connect your cat 5 cable to another powerline adapter in the house beside your existing location and another powerline adapter to the new Siro location, it will be the same thing, but you might get better speeds as the length of the electricty wiring will be shorter.

i have a similar set-up as i work from home a lot and have an office in my garden........i have Modem - connected to powerline (Av600) in the house and an Av600 in my office connected directly to my PC docking station.
I also have a separate powerline (av600) connected to a Wifi access point in another point in the house where WiFi can reach the garage so my phone can connect via WiFi (and it provides better wifi coverage in the house also)

My advise would be to take Siro as soon as you can get it.......you dont want to have to wait for them to come back for phase 2

ED E

Sounds like the solution is political with the wife, not technical.

srsly78

I don't understand... if you have a cat6 cable going to office why do you also need powerline adapters?

Your problem is just in the house itself with new router location? Surely that's no big deal to connect, doesn't need digging.

ctlsleh

srsly78 wrote: »

I don't understand... if you have a cat6 cable going to office why do you also need powerline adapters?

i dont think he understands what powerline can do, hes just using one powerline adapter as a wifi extender and actually using Cat 5 to connect it back to his router, thats my understanding of the situation anyway......

i came to the same conclusion as you, however it might be better depending on distance to use the CAT5 in the same way he does it to day, but use Powerline in the house between the old and new locations.

i would suggest he tries both to see which has the better speed and ping

srsly78

OP get an IT professional around to sort it out (instead of a gardener), this should not be a big problem.

SeanF

ctlsleh wrote: »

Is it true to say that the only purpose of the av600 is for wifi? i.e. that you only use one Av600.....? and therefore you're not actually using the powerline capabilities at all?
the way around this is to use powerline from your new Siro location, so connect a LAN output from your new Siro modem to another powerline adapter (non Wifi version) beside it, that will communicate to the powerline you have in your office and you still get the same functionality.in that case, your cat 5 cable becomes redundant.
Alternatively connect your cat 5 cable to another powerline adapter in the house beside your existing location and another powerline adapter to the new Siro location, it will be the same thing, but you might get better speeds as the length of the electricty wiring will be shorter.

i have a similar set-up as i work from home a lot and have an office in my garden........i have Modem - connected to powerline (Av600) in the house and an Av600 in my office connected directly to my PC docking station.
I also have a separate powerline (av600) connected to a Wifi access point in another point in the house where WiFi can reach the garage so my phone can connect via WiFi (and it provides better wifi coverage in the house also)

My advise would be to take Siro as soon as you can get it.......you dont want to have to wait for them to come back for phase 2

No, that's not what I'm doing. Seems to be some confusion about what my setup is. Here's what I have at the moment:
- My modem has a CAT6 cable that goes directly from the modem under the garden and into a wall port in my office. I connect my PC to that so that I have a direct network connection to my modem. This gives me generally speeds of about 70-80 mbps, and it's the fastest I'm going to get with my current setup.
- I ALSO use a powerline adaptor to send a network signal to the office. This enables me to have wifi in the office (which I use for my phone, ipad, etc).

Now, I could connect my PC to the powerline unit in the office (the one that generates the wifi), but I only get about 30-50% of the speed of the CAT6-under-the-garden connection. I have done this to test the speed, and I get anything from 15-40mpbs.

My thinking is that if I get SIRO, and I use a powerline adapter, it would still be faster than the 70-80 mpbs I'm getting now with CAT6. I hope this makes sense?

SeanF

srsly78 wrote: »

I don't understand... if you have a cat6 cable going to office why do you also need powerline adapters?

Your problem is just in the house itself with new router location? Surely that's no big deal to connect, doesn't need digging.

The cat6 cable connects to my PC to get the fastest possible speed. But I also have the powerline adaptor to get wifi in the office (my house wifi doesn't reach).

Unfortunately, trust me, it's not simple to connect the existing cat6 cable to the new SIRO modem location. Its new location is the other side of the house.

ctlsleh

SeanF wrote: »

No, that's not what I'm doing. Here's what I have at the moment:
- My modem has a CAT6 cable that goes direct from the modem under the garden and into a wall port on my office wall. I connect my PC to that so that I have a direct network connection to my modem. This gives me generally speeds of about 70-80 mbps.
- I ALSO use a powerline adaptor to send a network signal to the office. This enables me to have wifi in the office (which I use for my phone, ipad, etc).
I could connect my PC to the powerline unit in the office (the one spits out the wifi), but I only get about 30-50% of the speed of the CAT6-under-the-garden connection. In tests, I get anything from 15-40mpbs.

My thinking is that if I get SIRO, and I use a powerline adapter, it would still be faster than the 70-80 mpbs I'm getting now with CAT6. I hope this makes sense?

So keep your existing set up and use a power line between your existing modem and the new modem position and connect it to your cat5 cable going to your offfice.....power line is point to multi-point, so it will work exactly like you have now

shanec1928

While no ideal.Why don’t you just keep wahts currently there. Run a cable to the new location of the fibre modem and then either terminate the existing cable into a wall plate or a joiner an extra hop but should still work..

ctlsleh

You can also get newer POwerline adaptors AV2000 and they support up to 1Gig, so with the relatively short distance between existing modem point and new modem point, you should still be able to get 100’s Mbs at your office using your cat5/6......I’d try your existing ones first though

SeanF

shanec1928 wrote: »

While no ideal.Why don’t you just keep wahts currently there. Run a cable to the new location of the fibre modem and then either terminate the existing cable into a wall plate or a joiner an extra hop but should still work..

Actually, I'd do that if I could, but it physically very difficult to connect the old location with the new location. I can't connect it inside the house without ripping out half the walls. So I have to either go over the roof, or under the gutters, or under the garden. Over the roof is not really an option.

SeanF

ctlsleh wrote: »

You can also get newer POwerline adaptors AV2000 and they support up to 1Gig, so with the relatively short distance between existing modem point and new modem point, you should still be able to get 100’s Mbs at your office using your cat5/6......I’d try your existing ones first though

Thanks...this is interesting. The reviews for it certainly look good!

SeanF

ctlsleh wrote: »

So keep your existing set up and use a power line between your existing modem and the new modem position and connect it to your cat5 cable going to your offfice.....power line is point to multi-point, so it will work exactly like you have now

Actually, that could work too, if I understand you correctly...
This would mean I would have the powerline receiver inside my house instead of inside the office, and I would connect the under-the-garden cat6 to this. However, the only benefit here is that the powerline connection is shorter (as both the source and receiver are in the house), so I might get a faster connection this way. But I'd need to buy another powerline receiver to get wifi into the office.

ctlsleh

SeanF wrote: »

Actually, that could work too, if I understand you correctly...
This would mean I would have the powerline receiver inside my house instead of inside the office, and I would connect the under-the-garden cat6 to this. However, the only benefit here is that the powerline connection is shorter (as both the source and receiver are in the house), so I might get a faster connection this way. But I'd need to buy another powerline receiver to get wifi into the office.

Don’t buy the ones with WiFi, you have one already, you don’t need any more.
try the connectivity with the powerline adpatersvyou have already by using your direct PC connection in the office, if the speed isn’t suffficient, then try the new av2000 standard, that way you can leave the one that supports WiFi working as is in the office and still get the best throughput using your cat5/6

ED E

Even gigabit powerline adapters will only do 100-200Mb on a very good day. Why bother going from 80 -> 1000 only to see 120Mb on any device? Silly.

Gigabit services are designed for heavy users, if the wiring job is past what you're willing to do you dont need gigabit. Stay with what you have.

Johnboy1951

SeanF wrote: »

Actually, I'd do that if I could, but it physically very difficult to connect the old location with the new location. I can't connect it inside the house without ripping out half the walls. So I have to either go over the roof, or under the gutters, or under the garden. Over the roof is not really an option.

It might well be difficult, but it is the optimum without digging a new trench.

You might be able to arrange the new connection to be brought in much closer to the existing one, making your connection job much easier.

SeanF

ED E wrote: »

Even gigabit powerline adapters will only do 100-200Mb on a very good day. Why bother going from 80 -> 1000 only to see 120Mb on any device? Silly.

Gigabit services are designed for heavy users, if the wiring job is past what you're willing to do you dont need gigabit. Stay with what you have.

Well, if I get 120mb it will still be 50 faster than my current setup. However, I still have a few devices inside my house that would definitely benefit - the TV, PS3, etc, etc.

ED E

SeanF wrote: »

TV, PS3, etc, etc.

TV will pull maybe 18Mb at most. PSN would be doing spectacularly to feed a game download at 200Mb.

ctlsleh

My advice would be that if you get the opportunity to take fibre you should take it now, whether or not you use it to capacity doesn't matter, by taking it you have future proofed yourself forever. if you go back in 3 years time and ask for it, you mightn't get it so take it now. you can always figure out later how to get the best set-up

Cuddlesworth

SeanF wrote: »

Actually, I'd do that if I could, but it physically very difficult to connect the old location with the new location. I can't connect it inside the house without ripping out half the walls. So I have to either go over the roof, or under the gutters, or under the garden. Over the roof is not really an option.

Those are not your options. Is this single story or two story.

You can wire around the bottom of the house with a heavy duty cable, no need to "dig down" more then a spades worth or create a huge trench. Or you can wire up to the roof, through the eaves and through the attic. Up through the internal walls could also be a option. The overall cable run should be under 50 Meters considering the connections involved.

Then put a switch into your office and plug only the powerline access point and PC into it. The powerline device can act as a AP within a transmitter in the house.

Nollog

You could get the 150 Mbit option, should be faster than anything Vodafone currently offer, and for a similar price.

I don't see the problem, the installers will install the ont anywhere you want within reason, so get them to put it where your current modem is and connect your cat6 there, you'll get at least the same speed as you do now, but unshackled from openeirs lines.

DECEiFER

SeanF wrote: »

No, that's not what I'm doing. Seems to be some confusion about what my setup is. Here's what I have at the moment:
- My modem has a CAT6 cable that goes directly from the modem under the garden and into a wall port in my office. I connect my PC to that so that I have a direct network connection to my modem. This gives me generally speeds of about 70-80 mbps, and it's the fastest I'm going to get with my current setup.
- I ALSO use a powerline adaptor to send a network signal to the office. This enables me to have wifi in the office (which I use for my phone, ipad, etc).

Now, I could connect my PC to the powerline unit in the office (the one that generates the wifi), but I only get about 30-50% of the speed of the CAT6-under-the-garden connection. I have done this to test the speed, and I get anything from 15-40mpbs.

My thinking is that if I get SIRO, and I use a powerline adapter, it would still be faster than the 70-80 mpbs I'm getting now with CAT6. I hope this makes sense?

So if you have a CAT6 wire going from the house to the office already, you don't even need a powerline adapter setup at all. In-fact, it's a waste of power and potential, if I'm getting you right - because a switch in the office along with a Wireless AP would enable you to get a direct connection to the SIRO router from the house at maximum possible speeds and the Wireless AP would handle the rest. You'd just need to have the cable reach the SIRO router in the house as well (if it doesn't, a switch can help there, too - BUT - you can always get the installers to drill in where the existing modem is from the outside!). Again, if I'm not missing something, this is the optimal setup for your needs and I wouldn't go near powerline adapters given that the cable is already in place. I use a TP-Link TL-PA9020P (2Gbps non-WiFi models) to send the Internet upstairs to a Wireless AP (no CAT6 extension for me!). If I bothered about the upstairs, I'd cable it and use it in a Wireless AP.

Switches:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0000E5SES
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00AWM7PKO

Both are excellent options that would suit the above scenario as I understand it.

Wireless AP:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B016K4GQVG
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004UBU8IE (a cheaper but good option if you're not worried about your phone, etc., getting the most out of SIRO)

Or use one of your existing powerlines getting the feed from the potential office switch to provide WiFi to save a few bucks.

SeanF

DECEiFER wrote: »

You'd just need to have the cable reach the SIRO router in the house as well (if it doesn't, a switch can help there, too - BUT - you can always get the installers to drill in where the existing modem is from the outside!). Again, if I'm not missing something, this is the optimal setup for your needs and I wouldn't go near powerline adapters given that the cable is already in place.

Unfortunately, you are missing something. The SIRO engineers have to install the new box close to the outside Electricity box (they drill through the wall). However, my current modem is on the other side of the house, and my CAT6 line is connected to this modem, through a hole in the external wall, under the garden to the office. It's not a simple matter of connecting the CAT6 line to the new SIRO modem. If I go through the house, I have drill through walls, chase the walls, etc. The only other options are (a) to go over the roof (which I can guarantee my wife will not agree with), or (b) find a way to go through the attic (I've looked, and I can't see a way) or (c) get the landscaper back to lift some tiles and go through the garden (this is the best option, but costly).

I use a TP-Link TL-PA9020P (2Gbps non-WiFi models) to send the Internet upstairs to a Wireless AP (no CAT6 extension for me!). If I bothered about the upstairs, I'd cable it and use it in a Wireless AP.

This is the option I'm most interested in. I was thinking about buying one of these, which I could use to bridge the gap between the new SIRO modem and the location of my current modem, where my CAT6 cable starts. The distance would not be that big to be honest, how do you find the speeds with it? Even if I get more than 70-80mpbs it's still a better option than what I have now.

Johnboy1951

SeanF wrote: »

Unfortunately, you are missing something. The SIRO engineers have to install the new box close to the outside Electricity box (they drill through the wall). However, my current modem is on the other side of the house, and my CAT6 line is connected to this modem, through a hole in the external wall, under the garden to the office. It's not a simple matter of connecting the CAT6 line to the new SIRO modem. If I go through the house, I have drill through walls, chase the walls, etc. The only other options are (a) to go over the roof (which I can guarantee my wide will not agree with), or (b) find a way to go through the attic (I've looked, and I can't see a way) or (c) get the landscaper back to lift some tiles and go through the garden (this is the best option, but costly).


This is the option I'm most interested in. I was thinking about buying one of these, which I could use to bridge the gap between the new SIRO modem and the location of my current modem, where my CAT6 cable starts. The distance would not be that big to be honest, how do you find the speeds with it? Even if I get more than 70-80mpbs it's still a better option than what I have now.

It really depends on the wiring in your home, so you won't know until you try.
It might work brilliantly or it might be crap.

IMO, it is worth a try (not costly) .... but don't expect miracles when sending data across the electric wiring.

DECEiFER

SeanF wrote: »

Unfortunately, you are missing something. The SIRO engineers have to install the new box close to the outside Electricity box (they drill through the wall). However, my current modem is on the other side of the house, and my CAT6 line is connected to this modem, through a hole in the external wall, under the garden to the office. It's not a simple matter of connecting the CAT6 line to the new SIRO modem. If I go through the house, I have drill through walls, chase the walls, etc. The only other options are (a) to go over the roof (which I can guarantee my wide will not agree with), or (b) find a way to go through the attic (I've looked, and I can't see a way) or (c) get the landscaper back to lift some tiles and go through the garden (this is the best option, but costly).


This is the option I'm most interested in. I was thinking about buying one of these, which I could use to bridge the gap between the new SIRO modem and the location of my current modem, where my CAT6 cable starts. The distance would not be that big to be honest, how do you find the speeds with it? Even if I get more than 70-80mpbs it's still a better option than what I have now.

Can the SIRO installers not route the cable on the outside to your preferred location and drill in from there? I'd investigate that as a possibility.

All that not working out, the TP-Links I have are good. I was getting a LAN speed of about 700Mbps according to TP-Link's tpPLC Utility. But I've been using them in a house that's about 10 years old. You're going out to another building, so it's not possible to say for certain what you'd end up getting. Amazon have a very generous return policy so there's no harm in trying. Just remember what I said before - this is a non-WiFi model.

SeanF

DECEiFER wrote: »

Can the SIRO installers not route the cable on the outside to your preferred location and drill in from there? I'd investigate that as a possibility.

All that not working out, the TP-Links I have are good. I was getting a LAN speed of about 700Mbps according to TP-Link's tpPLC Utility. But I've been using them in a house that's about 10 years old. You're going out to another building, so it's not possible to say for certain what you'd end up getting. Amazon have a very generous return policy so there's no harm in trying. Just remember what I said before - this is a non-WiFi model.

No, they were in the house yesterday, and their work needs to be close to the electricity box, so routing the cable around the house is definitely not an option.

700Mpbs sounds very promising. Fortunately, I won't have to route it to the garden office, just to the location of the old modem (my existing CAT6 cable will then take it from there).

DECEiFER

SeanF wrote: »

No, they were in the house yesterday, and their work needs to be close to the electricity box, so routing the cable around the house is definitely not an option.

700Mpbs sounds very promising. Fortunately, I won't have to route it to the garden office, just to the location of the old modem (my existing CAT6 cable will then take it from there).

That's gold star thinking right there! The only thing I'd say to you is, it's hard to know if it is a true representation of the actual speed. I've never tested doing a (large) file transfer from one computer to another through it, for example.

Cuddlesworth

DECEiFER wrote: »

That's gold star thinking right there! The only thing I'd say to you is, it's hard to know if it is a true representation of the actual speed. I've never tested doing a (large) file transfer from one computer to another through it, for example.

Its not a true representation of speed and is dependant on a lot of factors. I'd be surprised if you get past 200Mbps on a good day.

ED E

SeanF wrote: »

No, they were in the house yesterday, and their work needs to be close to the electricity box, so routing the cable around the house is definitely not an option.

700Mpbs sounds very promising. Fortunately, I won't have to route it to the garden office, just to the location of the old modem (my existing CAT6 cable will then take it from there).

780 Mbps in TP PLC = 140Mb usable.

DECEiFER

ED E wrote: »

780 Mbps in TP PLC = 140Mb usable.

Up until I got SIRO I was using it as a means to get my desktop to the router with FTTC - and I was able to attain consistent max speeds of 85-90Mbps that my line was able to get. Beyond that, I'm afraid, I don't know how much I'd get as I got SIRO installed into the same room as my desktop and repurposed the powerlines to deliver Internet upstairs.

If you're in any position to get the cable into the attic, say, via clipping it up on a corner of the wall, and then coming down in the room via a corner as well and then via the skirting board to cover the remaining distance, then you're better-off doing that than going through walls with a drill. Like I said, though, Amazon have a generous return policy so by all means try the powerlines first and if you're not happy with them, you might consider the attic as the easiest, cheapest, and cleanest way to get a cable to your garden extension - where you can use a switch or other means to connect the two cables up. I'd even ask the SIRO installers to do it for you and offer them a few bucks for their efforts

SeanF

So I got the TP-Link TL-PA9020P AV2000.

I did some tests using speedtest.net...

Existing CAT6
Ping: 7 ms
Download: 76.37 Mbps
Upload: 18.86 Mbps

With old AV600 powerline:
Ping : 10 ms
Download: 22.91 Mbps
Upload: 18.26

With AV2000 in new location (used a very long cable to get connect to the new modem location):
Ping: 24 ms
Download: 75.08 Mbps (!)
Upload: 18.51 Mbps

Very pleasantly surprised at how good this works. I tested the speeds numerous times, and it always came back with speeds above 70mbps. This is almost as good as the CAT6 line, and way above anything I ever got with the AV600 powerline adapter. The SIRO engineers are coming back next week, so I'll be getting it installed.