Gyms misleading new members

MillyD123

Update: glad to post that this issue has been sorted.

Sincere thank you to all of you who gave me great advice, which I took. I emailed the finance company last night and got a reply this morning telling me, everything is fine, account is closed and I won't be hearing from them again. So I'm very relieved and certainly won't make this mistake again.

Thanks again.

coylemj

MillyD123 wrote: »

New members enter their details including bank details for monthly direct debit into a tablet.

My sympathy for your situation evaporated right at the end of that sentence.

MillyD123

coylemj wrote: »

My sympathy for your situation evaporated right at the end of that sentence.

No sympathy deserved. I should have known better.

mr_cochise

I think you should contact your bank and have the direct debit blocked.

velo.2010

If your worried about being scammed any further, the most somebody can do with your account number and sort code is set up a DD. Once you didn't enter a PIN or password/code, they can do no more.

I remember Jeremy Clarkson printed his bank account details to show how 'relatively safe' it was when there was a security breach in a UK bank. Many thousands of account numbers and sort codes were made public. The most someone did with Clarkson's details was to set up a direct debit to a charity.

MillyD123

mr_cochise wrote: »

I think you should contact your bank and have the direct debit blocked.

I will do that alright. I guess I’m just horrified that I gave my bank details to people who were posing as staff members. They were even wearing branded uniforms.

coylemj

mr_cochise wrote: »

I think you should contact your bank and have the direct debit blocked.

That is not necessarily good advice. The OP has entered into a contract which, if it follows the usual format, involves her borrowing an amount of money to pay the gym in advance for 36 months 'discounted' membership. The contract will stipulate the repayment schedule and if she simply tells her bank to refuse the direct debit, the finance company behind this 'deal' will take steps to enforce the contract which will probably progress through the usual threatening letters, calls from debt collectors and potentially a civil action in the courts. Which can end up affecting your credit rating.

A lot of consumers take the view that if they stop going to the gym, they can simply stop making the payments and walk away, it's not that simple. The problem with this approach is that the finance company has already handed over the money to the gym and they want to get paid. It's not like you're cancelling a window cleaning contract, there is a loan to be repaid so you can't just walk away.

OP, you said that you verbally cancelled the contract. You need to do better than that, get the name of the finance company and write or e-mail them immediately. Leave out the emotional stuff - don't make allegations about sharp practices, just say you are invoking your rights under the 'cooling off' condition and are revoking the contract.

MillyD123

coylemj wrote: »

That is

OP, you said that you verbally cancelled the contract. You need to do better than that, get the name of the finance company and write or e-mail them immediately. Leave out the emotional stuff - don't make allegations about sharp practices, just say you are invoking your rights under the 'cooling off' condition and are revoking the contract.

Thank you I’ll do that now. Is there a statutory cooling off period do you know ? I did follow up the verbal cancellation with an email to the lesiaure centre confirming that I wished to cancel. It was neither acknowledged or replied to.

I may also email the general manager of the hotel. They’re a reputable hotel and I don’t understand why they are using these tactics to recruit members.

JohnC.

Does the hotel own and operate the gym? If they do, can they really wash their hands of it?

Rubberchikken

Is there no a cooling off period in these circumstances.
You should make your displeasure known to the hotel manager also. This type of marketing while not illegal is unpleasant and could be shown to affect the hotels reputation in the long run.

Hitman3000

MillyD123 wrote:

Hi, does anyone have any experience of this. My local hotel gym has a marketing company posing as staff members; selling discounted membership. The process is not very transparent. New members enter their details including bank details for monthly direct debit into a tablet. There is no opportunity to view terms and conditions prior to signing up. Only after signing up and paying a small deposit are you are given a very vague contract, showing duration of 36 months, penalty for cancelling early and also personal/bank details being passed to a finance company in UK for collection.

This sounds like you signed up to a personal loan. Can you give the name of the underwriters?

MillyD123

JohnC. wrote: »

Does the hotel own and operate the gym? If they do, can they really wash their hands of it?

Yes they do own and operate it. they are misleading people and I think it won’t do their reputation any good

raxy

coylemj wrote: »

That is not necessarily good advice. The OP has entered into a contract which, if it follows the usual format, involves her borrowing an amount of money to pay the gym in advance for 36 months 'discounted' membership. The contract will stipulate the repayment schedule and if she simply tells her bank to refuse the direct debit, the finance company behind this 'deal' will take steps to enforce the contract which will probably progress through the usual threatening letters, calls from debt collectors and potentially a civil action in the courts. Which can end up affecting your credit rating.

A lot of consumers take the view that if they stop going to the gym, they can simply stop making the payments and walk away, it's not that simple. The problem with this approach is that the finance company has already handed over the money to the gym and they want to get paid. It's not like you're cancelling a window cleaning contract, there is a loan to be repaid so you can't just walk away.

OP, you said that you verbally cancelled the contract. You need to do better than that, get the name of the finance company and write or e-mail them immediately. Leave out the emotional stuff - don't make allegations about sharp practices, just say you are invoking your rights under the 'cooling off' condition and are revoking the contract.

I'd don't think your right on this (but I could be wrong, never been in the situation myself).
The Op said he cancelled within an hour. Any contract signed would have a cooling off period so you have a right to change your mind.
I would also think in this situation the op never signed any contract, only agreed verbally & gave bank details so I would assume this should be easy to back out of.
What I would do is put your cancellation in writing immediately, state that you believe you were miss sold & the terms of the contract were not explained to you correctly.
It would be different if you signed up & went to the gym for four months & then changed your mind.
On the direct debit you can't simply cancel with your bank because it will be the marketing company who set it up. You need to cancel your direct debit through them & notify your bank also. I contacted my bank about doing this & that is what they told me. If you cancel with the bank only the marketing company may still be able to take the money. Put in your cancellation letter that you would like the direct debit cancelled immediately also. If they do take the money you can request the bank to recall it after

MillyD123

Hitman3000 wrote: »

This sounds like you signed up to a personal loan. Can you give the name of the underwriters?

I got very little information only that payment queries were to be directed to ‘Debit Finance UK’. From Google they appear to specialize in collecting direct debits for the leisure industry.

liam7831

What's the name of the hotel, dont see the reason for not telling us

coylemj

MillyD123 wrote: »

I did follow up the verbal cancellation with an email to the lesiaure centre confirming that I wished to cancel. It was neither acknowledged or replied to.

Forget about the hotel and the leisure centre for the moment. Neither of them is a party to the contract you signed to borrow the money.

Read my post again, the contract is between you and the finance company, it's them you have to contact to revoke the loan.

MillyD123

liam7831 wrote: »

What's the name of the hotel, dont see the reason for not telling us

I’d rather not until I speak to the general manager and give them a chance to help me. Fairs fair. While I’m annoyed at being mislead. It may well be rectified with a quick chat.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

coylemj wrote: »

That is not necessarily good advice. The OP has entered into a contract which, if it follows the usual format, involves her borrowing an amount of money to pay the gym in advance for 36 months 'discounted' membership. The contract will stipulate the repayment schedule and if she simply tells her bank to refuse the direct debit, the finance company behind this 'deal' will take steps to enforce the contract which will probably progress through the usual threatening letters, calls from debt collectors and potentially a civil action in the courts. Which can end up affecting your credit rating.

A lot of consumers take the view that if they stop going to the gym, they can simply stop making the payments and walk away, it's not that simple. The problem with this approach is that the finance company has already handed over the money to the gym and they want to get paid. It's not like you're cancelling a window cleaning contract, there is a loan to be repaid so you can't just walk away.

OP, you said that you verbally cancelled the contract. You need to do better than that, get the name of the finance company and write or e-mail them immediately. Leave out the emotional stuff - don't make allegations about sharp practices, just say you are invoking your rights under the 'cooling off' condition and are revoking the contract.

I would suggest asking in the legal forum to get an answer, but I have a feeling that this "contract" isn't valid as parts of the contract were introduced after signing.

Get onto your bank and tell them what happened, that is the best advice for now, regardless of what people may think.

You were scammed into signing over money. If you knew the full details before, you wouldn't have entered that contract.

MillyD123

coylemj wrote: »

Forget about the hotel and the leisure centre for the moment. Neither of them is a party to the contract you signed to borrow the money.

Read my post again, the contract is between you and the finance company, it's them you have to contact to revoke the loan.

Good advice. Thank you !

Hitman3000

MillyD123 wrote:

I got very little information only that payment queries were to be directed to ‘Debit Finance UK’. From Google they appear to specialize in collecting direct debits for the leisure industry.

Contact this company and exercise your right to cancel.

Taylor365

Just for curiosity, what made you give your details so easily OP?

Hitman3000

Taylor365 wrote:

Just for curiosity, what made you give your details so easily OP?

This helps how?

MillyD123

Taylor365 wrote: »

Just for curiosity, what made you give your details so easily OP?

Pure foolishness on my part. The sales pitch was intense and I felt uncomfortable. There were others waiting in the queue. Hard lesson learned

coylemj

Jason Quaint Family wrote: »

I would suggest asking in the legal forum to get an answer, but I have a feeling that this "contract" isn't valid as parts of the contract were introduced after signing.

We (and the OP) have no sight of the actual contract so that would be a pointless exercise.

Jason Quaint Family wrote: »

Get onto your bank and tell them what happened, that is the best advice for now, regardless of what people may think.

The bank don't want to know the details, they are simply a facilitator. They will tell the OP she has two options: leave the DD in place or cancel it. Beyond that, they don't care.

Jason Quaint Family wrote: »

You were scammed into signing over money. If you knew the full details before, you wouldn't have entered that contract.

However you might disagree with the sales tactics that were used, I think 'scammed' is a bit OTT. The OP signed a contract for 36 months gym membership - where was the scam?

MillyD123

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Contact this company and exercise your right to cancel.

Thanks Hitman.

Tenigate

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Is there no a cooling off period in these circumstances.

Not necessarily. If the contract was entered on an ipad it could possible fall under distance selling regulations.

If a finance agreement is involved, there may also be a cooling off period.

And finally, if the printed contract differed to what the op saw on screen (particularly if there was no time given to review T&Cs and the op relied on what the sales people said and info that was visible on screen) once again, a good argument for cancelling the contract.

My advice to the op. Do not use the gym. Cancel DD mandate online. Write to the party on the contract and state you will not be going ahead with it. Write to the hotel. Keep copies of the correspondence.

velo.2010

MillyD123 wrote: »

The sales pitch was intense and I felt uncomfortable. There were others waiting in the queue.

That's harassment! No foolishness on your part.

A quick look at your profile and I could guess the hotel/gym. Get onto their Facebook/Tripadviser page and make a statement of the service you received. Tell them you were harassed into signing a contract and you were not comfortable doing so. If they had any sense, management will pick up on this and look to sort it out for you.

Make some noise! At the very least, others will be warned off signing up. Who knows how many they've managed to pressure into signing. That's the sort of thing you see on BBC Rogue Traders!

Xterminator

velo.2010 wrote: »

That's harassment! No foolishness on your part.

I commend the OP for understanding that he did act unwisely. People have to take responsibility for their actions, as the OP has.

Oh the bad salesman made me forget my common sense doesn't wash in court.

AndrewJRenko

coylemj wrote: »

Forget about the hotel and the leisure centre for the moment. Neither of them is a party to the contract you signed to borrow the money.

Read my post again, the contract is between you and the finance company, it's them you have to contact to revoke the loan.

While this is technically correct, you should also consider using leverage of the hotel/gym to get the contract cancelled. They won't want a big light of publicity shined on shady practices like this.

If the first attempt to sort it directly doesn't work, I wouldn't hesitate to involve the hotel and the gym and use that leverage.

coylemj

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

While this is technically correct, you should also consider using leverage of the hotel/gym to get the contract cancelled. They won't want a big light of publicity shined on shady practices like this.

If the first attempt to sort it directly doesn't work, I wouldn't hesitate to involve the hotel and the gym and use that leverage.

You seem to be missing the obvious point which is that these cowboys sold the scheme first to the gym operators, then the management stood there while their members were given the hard sell and persuaded to sign up for this scheme. Why? Because the management were getting generous kickbacks and the gym operator was getting a big chunk of cash for advance membership. This scheme has been going on for years, it's basically a financial 'smash and grab', usually with a poor outcome for the customers.

The operators get money in advance, kickbacks are splashed around and everyone is happy for a while. The problem arises when it dawns on the operators that their subscription stream has dried up. After a year or so, the business goes bust because there's no money to pay wages and bills. Then it's miraculously taken over by a 'new' operator, the existing customers (with 36 month membership paid up) are told that they are unsecured creditors of the old company and have no right to use the facilities without taking out new a membership.

AndrewJRenko

coylemj wrote: »

You seem to be missing the obvious point which is that these cowboys sold the scheme first to the gym operators, then the management stood there while their members were given the hard sell and persuaded to sign up for this scheme. Why? Because the management were getting generous kickbacks and the gym operator was getting a big chunk of cash for advance membership. This scheme has been going on for years, it's basically a financial 'smash and grab', usually with a poor outcome for the customers.

The operators get money in advance, kickbacks are splashed around and everyone is happy for a while. The problem arises when it dawns on the operators that their subscription stream has dried up. After a year or so, the business goes bust because there's no money to pay wages and bills. Then it's miraculously taken over by a 'new' operator, the existing customers (with 36 month membership paid up) are told that they are unsecured creditors of the old company and have no right to use the facilities without taking out new a membership.

I'm not missing anything thanks. I understand how things work.

However, the name of the hotel is above the door. If they have half a business brain, they won't want their name flying round social media or Joe Duffy or whatever associated with these schemes, as the money coming in will dry up very, very soon.

coylemj

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

However, the name of the hotel is above the door. If they have half a business brain, they won't want their name flying round social media or Joe Duffy or whatever associated with these schemes, as the money coming in will dry up very, very soon.

So people will cancel their weddings and the granny's 80th birthday party because a gym operating out of the hotel premises went bust? Don't think so.

People on boards have an inflated view of the power of Facebook and Twitter to damage a business. Nobody will see that crap except the 'friends' and followers of the people who post. Yes, a few people will 'like' and retweet but it's not going to cause lasting damage. And Joe Duffy's lawyers will put a stop to any scurrilous attempt to associate the hotel with sharp financial practices by a tenant operating out of the premises.

AndrewJRenko

coylemj wrote: »

So people will cancel their weddings and the granny's 80th birthday party because a gym operating out of the hotel premises went bust? Don't think so.

People on boards have an inflated view of the power of Facebook and Twitter to damage a business. Nobody will see that crap except the 'friends' and followers of the people who post. Yes, a few people will 'like' and retweet but it's not going to cause lasting damage. And Joe Duffy's lawyers will put a stop to any scurrilous attempt to associate the hotel with sharp financial practices by a tenant operating out of the premises.

So why do you think the Happy Pear lads took down their Instagram post of them going for a swim on the morning of the storm?

coylemj

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So why do you think the Happy Pear lads took down their Instagram post of them going for a swim on the morning of the storm?

Who?

AndrewJRenko

coylemj wrote: »

Who?

The Happy Pear lads.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The Happy Pear lads.

Who?

AndrewJRenko

Fernando Happy Harpist wrote: »

Who?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105012275&postcount=35

coylemj

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The Happy Pear lads.

I never heard of them or that story until you posted that and neither have I seen any mention of them on Twitter, despite the fact that I follow most of the major Irish (RTE and press) journalists and news feeds. And none of my friends on Facebook posted a link to the story.

I really don't see the parallel with the topic in this thread, the Irish press were just waiting to name anyone caught frolicking in the water during the storm. A gym taking money via a hard sell wouldn't merit any coverage at all for the simple reason that they were doing nothing illegal.

The common psychological condition known as 'buyer's regret' is not a news story.

Tenigate

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So why do you think the Happy Pear lads took down their Instagram post of them going for a swim on the morning of the storm?

I didnt hear of those attention seeking clowns until their publicity stunt the morning of the storm.

And I'm not sure if you're shilling for them or just dragging the thread off topic.

Tenigate

coylemj wrote: »

The common psychological condition known as 'buyer's regret' is not a news story.

Buyers' regret is one thing, but there are consumer protections surounding advertising, mis-selling and cooling-off periods for certain types of transactions. This type of hard-sell could easily be a newsworthy story, particularly the involvement of 18mth contracts and complex transactions involving multiple parties for a gym membership.. first and foremost, my question to the op would be was he/she made aware of the 18 mth contract and penalties for breaking it?

AndrewJRenko

coylemj wrote: »

I never heard of them or that story until you posted that and neither have I seen any mention of them on Twitter, despite the fact that I follow most of the major Irish (RTE and press) journalists and news feeds. And none of my friends on Facebook posted a link to the story.

I really don't see the parallel with the topic in this thread, the Irish press were just waiting to name anyone caught frolicking in the water during the storm. A gym taking money via a hard sell wouldn't merit any coverage at all for the simple reason that they were doing nothing illegal.

The common psychological condition known as 'buyer's regret' is not a news story.

If 'legal' was the criteria for excluding whingers on Joe Duffy, it would be a half hour show twice a week. Legal doesn't make it right, or generally publicly acceptable.

They have 160k followers on Instagram and are frequently on RTE and TV3. They run a couple of restaurants and sell products into the major supermarkets. They don't float my boat, but they are big.

My point was that they got figuratively beaten up by their followers (not by the press) over their morning swim, and they withdrew swiftly.

The gym is much more than a 'tenant' of the hotel. They are part of the overall package. If you look on the hotel website, you will see them pushing the gym and leisure as part of their overall facilities. The hotel name is over the door.

I'm not suggesting that national press would be interested, but there is certainly leverage to be gained by involving the hotel.

coylemj

OP has replaced her first post with a statement that the contract has been revoked by the finance company so she's satisfied.

Means the thread won't make any sense to someone reading it after the event as the first post is now the resolution but what the hell ....

dudara

Closing this thread now as the OP has resolved their issue.

dudara