Annual Leave/Job closing for a day

Gavin "shels"

Just wondering if there is anything in law about if you have Annual Leave booked but the job closes for a day (e.g. the hurricane tomorrow). Are you entitled to the AL day back?

Nutser

I'd imagine everyone will be taking an annual leave day for it.

Gavin "shels"

Nah they ain't - not my workplace that it's happening, I'm getting my AL day back.

loyatemu

Gavin shels wrote: »

Nah they ain't - not my workplace that it's happening, I'm getting my AL day back.

silver lining - though I assume whatever you had the day booked for is off anyway.

billyhead

Whats the legislation though if your forced to take a day off i.e working in the public/civil service and the place is closed?

B-D-P--

I would imagine its the same as a Bank Holiday, Your present to work but they closed, so your vacation days shouldnt be docked

amtc

I had to do some research on companies policy 're Good Friday. About half of all places closed. It was given to where I worked as an extra day's holiday in recognition of work through the Year.

If couldn't attend work due to weather etc there was a blanket force majeure so didn't have to take holidays.

davo10

amtc wrote: »

I had to do some research on companies policy 're Good Friday. About half of all places closed. It was given to where I worked as an extra day's holiday in recognition of work through the Year.

If couldn't attend work due to weather etc there was a blanket force majeure so didn't have to take holidays.

That isn't what FM is.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/employers-don-t-have-to-pay-you-if-you-miss-work-because-of-ophelia-1.3257440?mode=amp

Kuva

Some dude on news this morning said if the employer closed up shop today, he has to pay staff.

messrs

Id would say it would be at the discretion of your manager, i remember a few years back i had a day al booked of as i was sitting my driving test, it was December time and weather was really bad and decision was made to close the office and have noone come in, i brought it up with my manager and asked for my al day back and he said no - basically tough luck! In my current job one of the girls had today booked of as AL as she was going to a function last night so wanted today off and she was told because our office was shut today they would give her the days al back - so hopefully you have a sound manager and get your day back

Dial Hard

Nutser wrote:

I'd imagine everyone will be taking an annual leave day for it.

Not necessarily. Law lecturer from NUI Maynooth on RTE earlier, basically if your employer made the decision to close today then they have to pay you and can't take it out of leave. If, however, they were open and you chose not to travel, then it's a leave/unpaid day situation.

Not sure where that leaves the OP, though.

A_Sober_Paddy

Kuva wrote: »

Some dude on news this morning said if the employer closed up shop today, he has to pay staff.

What happens if a shopping centre closes thus closing my shop where I work

jaffa20

I'm in the same situation. I think the office closed early today but i had Annual leave day booked off. I will ask tomorrow but i don't think i will get anywhere.

titan18

Dial Hard wrote:

Not necessarily. Law lecturer from NUI Maynooth on RTE earlier, basically if your employer made the decision to close today then they have to pay you and can't take it out of leave. If, however, they were open and you chose not to travel, then it's a leave/unpaid day situation.

What about if they opened and closed as hardly anyone turned up as we all chose it was unsafe to travel?

amtc

davo10 wrote: »

That isn't what FM is.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/employers-don-t-have-to-pay-you-if-you-miss-work-because-of-ophelia-1.3257440?mode=amp

It was in the context of the organisation I worked for and formed part of the regulatory regime. Believe me I paid enough in legal fees to a large law firm to be told this.

I do know what regular fm is. But certain regulations over ride this. It was in the context of snow.

davo10

amtc wrote: »

It was in the context of the organisation I worked for and formed part of the regulatory regime. Believe me I paid enough in legal fees to a large law firm to be told this.

I do know what regular fm is. But certain regulations over ride this. It was in the context of snow.

I do not believe you, FM has nothing to do with being unable to attend work due to weather conditions.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/30/section/13/enacted/en/html#sec13

posturingpat

I went in this morning and was sent home at lunchtime(was meant to have a full day).
Will i be entitled to a full day pay? I'm certain my employers won't pay me unless they legally have to, i'd say it killed them to even shut, must've been under serious pressure from a Union.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

amtc

davo10 wrote: »

I do not believe you, FM has nothing to do with being unable to attend work due to weather conditions.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1998/act/30/section/13/enacted/en/html#sec13

Look at the Postal Services Act and the Communications Regulation Act. I do know what I'm talking about in this context as I managed a case all the way to the supreme court and won.

davo10

amtc wrote: »

Look at the Postal Services Act and the Communications Regulation Act. I do know what I'm talking about in this context as I managed a case all the way to the supreme court and won.

But FM applies when you urgently need to be there for a close relative, it cannot be applied as a "blanket" for everyone as you state.

Leo said it "could come into play" in the public service in the context presumably young kids having to stay home from school or an employee having to look after an elderly/sick parent if their carer cannot, but that certainly would not apply to those who do not need to be at home to look after the young/elderly/sick. And it does not apply to private employers, in fact he said it was "up to individual employers" if they pay their staff or not.

http://www.thejournal.ie/leo-varadkar-briefing-ophelia-3648761-Oct2017/

The case you mention should have set a clear precedent for this if you couldn't attend due to snow, I can't find it when I google "Supreme Court force majeure", could you provide a link to it and the section of the communications Act which relates to FM. This is something which would be very useful on future threads about FM. Thanks.

amtc

Can't link the supreme court judgement...it was a reserved judgement. From memory the High Court one is there. But doing this from my phone.

The relevant provision is section 21 of the Act. I think you're maybe confusing fm leave rather than what is fm. Fm leave is as you say to provide a service that someone cannot offer. The extension of that to fm is in a situation where the service can not be provided and hence the staff are not needed. This was the kernel of the court case.

davo10

amtc wrote: »

Can't link the supreme court judgement...it was a reserved judgement. From memory the High Court one is there. But doing this from my phone.

The relevant provision is section 21 of the Act. I think you're maybe confusing fm leave rather than what is fm. Fm leave is as you say to provide a service that someone cannot offer. The extension of that to fm is in a situation where the service can not be provided and hence the staff are not needed. This was the kernel of the court case.

I am not confused, the definition of FM is right there on the stature book, it isn't a broad definition, it's quite succinct on who it applies to and under what circumstances.

amtc

davo10 wrote: »

I am not confused, the definition of FM is right there on the stature book, it isn't a broad definition, it's quite succinct on who it applies to and under what circumstances.

Fine if that's what you believe. The other issue I dealt with was industrial action as fm.

Anyway not discussing further. Back at work!

maximoose

Gavin shels wrote: »

Nah they ain't - not my workplace that it's happening, I'm getting my AL day back.

Same here, had yesterday off anyway - day was credited back to me as office closed

Wombatman

You choose not to come in because of storm - annual leave or lieu leave.

They choose to close because of storm - full pay.

https://rsvpmagazine.ie/dunnes-stores-tesco-reveal-workers-will-continue-paid-despite-storm-ophelia/

Gavin "shels"

maximoose wrote: »

Same here, had yesterday off anyway - day was credited back to me as office closed

So did I, but my gf didn't in here place.

Conall Cernach

The employer is under no obligation to pay staff where they have temporarily closed due to extreme weather.

When an employee cannot attend work because of extreme weather events, is the employer obliged to pay the employee?

There is no legal entitlement for that employee to be paid where they cannot attend for work. Any more beneficial arrangement is a matter for agreement between the employer and the employee. Employers are encouraged to take a long-term view of the working relationship, recognising that demonstrating concern for the welfare of employees and treating employees fairly translates into a better working environment to the benefit of both the staff and the employer.

What happens where the employer is unable to either open the premises because of the unforeseen emergency or where there is no work?

If the employer has put employees on a period of 'layoff' because there is no work available and where they are clear it is of a temporary nature and that the employee can expect to return to work in the future, then the employer is not obliged to pay employees. However, eligible employees may be entitled to Social Welfare benefits.

http://workplacerelations.ie/en/news-media/Workplace_Relations_Notices/Unforeseen_Circumstances_Affecting_Normal_Employment_Situations.html

Minimo62

Our company took decision to close for the day and pay staff. But anyone who was on annual leave will not get the day back. Not sure how that stands in terns of employment law but seems unfair not to give back the annual leave?