Charging best practices...?

billy few mates

Just curious what people (EV drivers) do as a matter of practice when it comes to charging their EVs.
I fill my petrol car up once a fortnight, full to about 100miles remaining but I know I can nip into a petrol station and fill it up in minutes if I need to go somewhere in a hurry.

Do EV owners charge them and let them go as low as they dare before recharging or do you just keep topping up whenever you get the opportunity?
Does this affect long term battery life?

If I had one I'd like to think it would remain fully charged in case I needed to go somewhere. That means I'd probably charge it every night regardless of the state of charge, and grab a quick charge any time I park it up if a charger is available.
What does everyone else do?

pwurple

Typically, i charge at work. Or at home if it’s holidays. I charge twice or three times a week.

If I am on a longer trip than my range, I use fast chargers. Charge for 15or 20 minutes on the motorway stops. Grab a coffee or let the kids take a pee break. Done.

grogi

Charge everytime when you can. At the house, at work etc.

cros13

billy few mates wrote: »

Do EV owners charge them and let them go as low as they dare before recharging or do you just keep topping up whenever you get the opportunity?

Plug in every time I get home but the car is usually set to "off-peak charging" and knows the nightsaver hours and next departure time from my calendar/the set schedule. If I'm low and I'm going somewhere that evening two/three button taps (or on the mobile app if I forgot to set it before leaving the car) and the car starts charging immediately, generally charging 40-70km per hour of charging. If I arrive at practically empty at 19:00, find out I need to make an unexpected trip to pick up some ingredients for dinner or whatever I have a button in the kitchen (smart home) I can press that uses the BMW Connected API to tell the car to charge immediately. 10 minutes later the car has charged enough for the round trip to Tesco.

billy few mates wrote: »

Does this affect long term battery life?

I try to avoid leaving the car for long periods below 10% SoC and often if I arrive home that low I'll set the car to charge immediately and change back to the timer via the app once the car is over 20% SoC.

billy few mates wrote: »

If I had one I'd like to think it would remain fully charged in case I needed to go somewhere. That means I'd probably charge it every night regardless of the state of charge, and grab a quick charge any time I park it up if a charger is available.
What does everyone else do?

Pretty much that...

When I move to a 60kWh+ car I may limit daily charging to 70-80% SoC if it gives me the option in software. But right now the loss of utility from not fully charging the car would trump the unproven and at best marginal increase in pack lifespan.

BoatMad

billy few mates wrote: »

Just curious what people (EV drivers) do as a matter of practice when it comes to charging their EVs.
I fill my petrol car up once a fortnight, full to about 100miles remaining but I know I can nip into a petrol station and fill it up in minutes if I need to go somewhere in a hurry.

Do EV owners charge them and let them go as low as they dare before recharging or do you just keep topping up whenever you get the opportunity?
Does this affect long term battery life?

If I had one I'd like to think it would remain fully charged in case I needed to go somewhere. That means I'd probably charge it every night regardless of the state of charge, and grab a quick charge any time I park it up if a charger is available.
What does everyone else do?

Charge every night at home as car does 130 km commute.

Only fast charge to whatever amount I need to get home or to destination, no more , no less

unkel

Usually charge at home when the car goes under 30% of battery left or so. Which is maybe 2 or 3 times a week.

I'm lucky in that I have a fast charge point just round the corner from me, so should I need an unexpected top up, I could go there

billy few mates

So assuming I bought an EGolf with the 300km range of which I’d guess would realistically be approx 200km. The journey I do from home to Clare is about 270km so a stop on the way would be a must.
Reading the literature about the EGolf it says they take approx 17hrs to charge for a normal three pin plug and approx 10hrs from a normal home charger, no problem I’ll charge it overnight before I leave.
I reckon I should be able to reach the Barrack Obama plaza on that charge so I would aim to stop off there To recharge the batteries, how long would I have to stay at one of these roadside chargers to get enough juice to continue my journey? I’m assuming the chargers in public places like this would be able to charge me a lot quicker that the three pin plug and standard home charger or are some of these public chargers similarly slow?

unkel

About 20 minutes or so...

cros13

billy few mates wrote: »

I reckon I should be able to reach the Barrack Obama plaza on that charge so I would aim to stop off there To recharge the batteries, how long would I have to stay at one of these roadside chargers to get enough juice to continue my journey? I’m assuming the chargers in public places like this would be able to charge me a lot quicker that the three pin plug and standard home charger or are some of these public chargers similarly slow?

You'd stop in Roscrea for about 20 minutes on the way. Barack Obama plaza doesn't have a rapid charger, if you stopped there it would take 3-4 hours to pull the same amount of power 15-20 mins in Roscrea would give you.

Shefwedfan

I charge all the time.....I do all my charging at home but even if I have used up 20km in car I will plug in at night. I have it set in the car to use night electricity. You can have multiple setup in eGolf, so different days you can set different charging patterns etc.

With eGolf you will get Car-Net app. So you can start/finish charging car from phone. Check battery status/car location etc

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

But right now the loss of utility from not fully charging the car would trump the unproven and at best marginal increase in pack lifespan.

it's not unproven, it's fact that the longer Li cells sit at high soc the more stresses imposed on them. Nasa know this, Nissan Know this and the Leaf manual states not to leave the car above 80% for extended periods. That would mean keeping it plugged in , going to the shop 2 Kms away, coming back and charging again. Even the battery report from Nissan shows this.

GM also prevent the Volt from charging beyond something like 60% SOC and one reason it lasts long in a small pack, one reason the NiMh cells lasted so long in the Prius is due to only using about 50% SOC.

Everything matters in a small battery , cycling will be the main issue for high mileage drivers such as I, for a low mileage driver it would be time v temperature v time spent at high soc. But, everything adds up.

With a 60 Kwh battery it's won't matter so much because a 10% loss in capacity wouldn't be noticed so you can be much less cautious unless you want to maximise the length of time for which the battery becomes unusable of you intend to keep it many years.

jca

Slightly off topic but for those on here who mainly charge at home I've two questions. How long does the home charger take to get the battery from 10% to full charge? In real figures how much extra did your electricity bills increase by over the 2 month period?

goz83

We have two 24kWh Leafs.
Each one is charged on average once every 3 days.
If a longer journey is planned for one, or both cars, they are charged.
We almost never charge if the battery is 80% or higher.
We have night rate electricity and the cars are set to take advantage of that.
Our journeys are fairly short and predictable and we usually have at least 1 car at 70% or higher, so don’t need to plug in each night, which would not be any trouble anyway.

Like Unkel, there is a fast charger only 5 minutes from me and the airport fast charger is only 5 minutes from that one if I needed it.

goz83

jca wrote: »

Slightly off topic but for those on here who mainly charge at home I've two questions. How long does the home charger take to get the battery from 10% to full charge? In real figures how much extra did your electricity bills increase by over the 2 month period?

That would depend on
(a) Whether the domestic unit can safely provide an extra 16 or 32 Amps.
(b) Whether there is a 16 or 32 Amp EVSE (home charger) installed.
(c) What OBC the car has (how much power can it draw).

In my situation, I have a 32Amp EVSE and I have both a 3.6 and a 6.6 OBC Leaf.

The 3.6 Leaf would take around 2.5 hours and the 6.6 Leaf around 4.5 hours, give or take.

My electric bill is around the same, or lower. We switched to night rate and adjusted our usage habits, so the dishwasher and washing machine usually go on a timer to start on the night rate.

We pretty much drive for free (less tax, insurance etc)

jca

goz83 wrote: »

That would depend on
(a) Whether the domestic unit can safely provide an extra 16 or 32 Amps.
(b) Whether there is a 16 or 32 Amp EVSE (home charger) installed.
(c) What OBC the car has (how much power can it draw).

In my situation, I have a 32Amp EVSE and I have both a 3.6 and a 6.6 OBC Leaf.

The 3.6 Leaf would take around 2.5 hours and the 6.6 Leaf around 4.5 hours, give or take.

My electric bill is around the same, or lower. We switched to night rate and adjusted our usage habits, so the dishwasher and washing machine usually go on a timer to start on the night rate.

We pretty much drive for free (less tax, insurance etc)

Thanks for that. I saw a clip of the new Leaf, I think it was on fb, it looks very nice. I'm kind of sorry I didn't make the leap instead of playing safe and getting an Octavia, maybe in 3 years I'll do it.

KCross

jca wrote: »

Slightly off topic but for those on here who mainly charge at home I've two questions. How long does the home charger take to get the battery from 10% to full charge?

Its down to the numbers.... depends on car and charge point.
Some details here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102642345&postcount=39

jca wrote: »

In real figures how much extra did your electricity bills increase by over the 2 month period?

Thats a classic how long is a piece of string question. It has 4 main variables...

1) You electricity price
2) How much driving you do
3) The efficiency of the car and how hard you like to drive.
4) The efficiency of the charging process.

As a rough guide...

1) Nearly everyone with an EV will have night rate electricity and if they don't, they should! So, the answer to question 1 is ~7c/kWh
2) Only you can answer that.
3) For "normal" driving the Ioniq uses about 13kWh/100km. The Leaf is about 15kWh/100km. Of course, YMMV.
4) 90% efficiency is typical.

So, you simply do the math then after that.

Example... lets say you do 100km's per day x 7 and you drive a Leaf (36,000km/yr).

That would be 15kWh's of electricity, add 10% for the efficiency so 16.5kWh per day. Thats 990kWh's for a 2 monthly bill @ 7c/kWh so the total added onto your bill for the 2 months, having done 6000km's, would be €69 inc Vat!!

unkel

And that's of course twice the national average mileage!

Do the national average (18k km) in Ioniq, charged at night and it will cost you

(18000*12/100 * 6.65c) + 10% for inefficiency = €23 per bimonthly bill or €158 per year. And of course public charging is still free, so if you ever charge in public, that amount of €158 goes down

I used to spend €60 per week in petrol

peposhi

unkel wrote: »

I used to spend €60 per week in petrol

The petrol station near your place lost a seriously good customer. They must be peed off :):)

unkel

cnocbui wrote:

What colour Ferrari La Ferrari shall I choose - hmmmmm - decisions, decisions.

peposhi wrote:

The petrol station near your place lost a seriously good customer. They must be peed off

Not as peed off as the Exchequer. Used to pay 3600 per year in fuel duty and motor tax. Now it's just 120

billy few mates

I’ve definitely decided to put my plans to buy an EV or Hybrid on hold for this year, I can’t find a suitable second hand and I’m not going to push the boat out to have a new car which will really only be ‘new’ for a couple of months. I might have a look at it again in the new year if the dealers have any good deals on 2017 models.
Does anybody know if the ESB will be extending the free home charger into 2018 or what the plan is for this?

Shefwedfan

billy few mates wrote: »

I’ve definitely decided to put my plans to buy an EV or Hybrid on hold for this year, I can’t find a suitable second hand and I’m not going to push the boat out to have a new car which will really only be ‘new’ for a couple of months. I might have a look at it again in the new year if the dealers have any good deals on 2017 models.
Does anybody know if the ESB will be extending the free home charger into 2018 or what the plan is for this?

From what I know it looks to be extended but it is only for new cars

So if buying second hand there is discussion about potential for a SEAI grant for the charger but I haven't seen confirmation.

The charger is not a huge cost.....

billy few mates

Shefwedfan wrote: »

From what I know it looks to be extended but it is only for new cars

So if buying second hand there is discussion about potential for a SEAI grant for the charger but I haven't seen confirmation.

The charger is not a huge cost.....

No, but just something I'll have to factor in to the costs when I do my budget calculations.

Firblog

Deleted User wrote: »

it's not unproven, it's fact that the longer Li cells sit at high soc the more stresses imposed on them. Nasa know this, Nissan Know this and the Leaf manual states not to leave the car above 80% for extended periods. That would mean keeping it plugged in , going to the shop 2 Kms away, coming back and charging again. Even the battery report from Nissan shows this.

GM also prevent the Volt from charging beyond something like 60% SOC and one reason it lasts long in a small pack, one reason the NiMh cells lasted so long in the Prius is due to only using about 50% SOC.

Everything matters in a small battery , cycling will be the main issue for high mileage drivers such as I, for a low mileage driver it would be time v temperature v time spent at high soc. But, everything adds up.

With a 60 Kwh battery it's won't matter so much because a 10% loss in capacity wouldn't be noticed so you can be much less cautious unless you want to maximise the length of time for which the battery becomes unusable of you intend to keep it many years.

So are you saying that you shouldn't charge to the 100% unless you'll need the range? Is it better to leave it @ 80%??

What is the definitive answer as to the effect this has on the life of the battery?

Shefwedfan

Firblog wrote: »

So are you saying that you shouldn't charge to the 100% unless you'll need the range? Is it better to leave it @ 80%??

What is the definitive answer as to the effect this has on the life of the battery?

This is interesting because I always charge to 100% but I don't need the range. I could charge to 80% and still have plenty everyday for what I need....

Orebro

The way I play it is just remember that if the car is going to be sitting for a few weeks then try to have it at around 50% charge. And if the charge is above 80% don't charge it (for the Leaf anyway). Outside of that I just carry on and don't think about it, as everyone has their own view on what's best. I trust that Nissan have covered all bases so I don't need to obsess about it!

BoatMad

Shefwedfan wrote: »

From what I know it looks to be extended but it is only for new cars

So if buying second hand there is discussion about potential for a SEAI grant for the charger but I haven't seen confirmation.

The charger is not a huge cost.....

It's has been confirmed by DCCAE but no specific details yet

BoatMad

Orebro wrote: »

The way I play it is just remember that if the car is going to be sitting for a few weeks then try to have it at around 50% charge. And if the charge is above 80% don't charge it (for the Leaf anyway). Outside of that I just carry on and don't think about it, as everyone has their own view on what's best. I trust that Nissan have covered all bases so I don't need to obsess about it!

The whole 80% thing is a throwback to first generation leafs. It's completely gone from the 30 kWh leaf.

The manual states don't recharge if the car is 95% or above , ( from memory )

Ignore most people's " wisdom " on Li batteries. Few have any empirical data to back up their " advice " most of which is internet hearsay

The manual does mention not storing the car for too long at 100 % , there's no definition of " too long " , personally I view it as a week or more ( a purely hearsay figure )

Li degredation is a very complex area , with all sorts of confusing data