Budget 2018: Cycling loses...

Tenzor07

A measly €3 million allocated for cycling infrastructure!

For some context, the high end estimate for the Fitzwilliam street cycle lane was just under €2 million... one cycle lane!


https://greenparty.ie/news/green-party-budget-2018-shows-no-vision-for-the-future-of-our-country/

velo.2010

Yes and 10 cent extra on a can of Coke for when your bolloxed after a long, tough spin... Bastards!

Beasty

Given most of the time we give out about the facilities that are provided and many of us don't use them, I don't see this as particularly bad news.

A completely new approach to cycling infrastructure is probably called for, but the odd million here and there is not going to deliver that.

Of course there are already certain initiatives underway, and I really don't think this is something to create a fuss over

Tenzor07

It's pretty worthless, it's around 80 cents per head of Irish population..?

The Dutch spend around €32 per head of population..


I guess then we should all quit complaining and get in our cars...

Beasty

Once they remove the ridiculous planning restrictions in Dublin and start building upwards like modern cities, space will be freed up facilitating a joined up public transport system and allowing roads to be widened and extra cycling facilities to be provided. Alas that needs forward thinking and I suspect will not be delivered in my lifetime

07Lapierre

Beasty wrote: »

Once they remove the ridiculous planning restrictions in Dublin and start building upwards like modern cities, space will be freed up facilitating a joined up public transport system and allowing roads to be widened and extra cycling facilities to be provided. Alas that needs forward thinking and I suspect will not be delivered in my lifetime

Or or kids lifetime!

Beasty

The Dutch were, of course, able to re-build after the war and put a modern infrastructure in place. Not wishing a war on us, but there needs to be some fundamental changes within Irish society to deliver sustained improvements to the infrastructure. Alas though I think the NIMBYs are too dominant/influential in this country.

Feckofff

In fairness there are about 90 votes in cycling issues and 85 of those are already going to the greens.

Are we really expecting FG to chase 5 votes?

When cyclist start voting like OAPs things will change!

Beasty

Feckofff wrote: »

When cyclist start voting like OAPs things will change!

Not that long to go for some of us....

magicbastarder

Beasty wrote: »

The Dutch were, of course, able to re-build after the war and put a modern infrastructure in place

not quite true, i believe:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord

Miklos

Beasty wrote: »

Once they remove the ridiculous planning restrictions in Dublin and start building upwards like modern cities, space will be freed up facilitating a joined up public transport system...

They are talking about this at the moment though aren’t they? Not removing it entirely but raising the restriction.

Grassey

I think I also read about removing the requirements to provide car parking spaces in apartment blocks within 1km of QBC or Luas too? Sounds like a positive move to me.

Tombo2001

If you want something to change then it has to be an election issue.

Otherwise no point in complaining.

mcgratheoin

Beasty wrote: »

Once they remove the ridiculous planning restrictions in Dublin and start building upwards like modern cities, space will be freed up facilitating a joined up public transport system and allowing roads to be widened and extra cycling facilities lanes for cars to be provided. Alas that needs forward thinking and I suspect will not be delivered in my lifetime

FYP :mad:

Chips Lovell

Cycling only loses if you think "cycling infrastructure" is a good idea. As a cyclist, I'd prefer if they spent the money on something else.

Macy0161

Beasty wrote: »

The Dutch were, of course, able to re-build after the war and put a modern infrastructure in place. Not wishing a war on us, but there needs to be some fundamental changes within Irish society to deliver sustained improvements to the infrastructure. Alas though I think the NIMBYs are too dominant/influential in this country.

As already pointed out, this is a myth.

The cities that are now held up as examples of cycling infrastructure now, were rebuilt after the war as car-centric cities.

It was in the 60's, with rising death rates of pedestrians and cyclists that the cities were reconfigured to prioritise pedestrians and cyclists. Utrecht was the case study I have previously read iirc.

magicbastarder

a comment on cycling and the budget, but specific to the proposed velodrome:
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/no-irish-velodrome-budget/

Macy0161

magicbastarder wrote: »

a comment on cycling and the budget, but specific to the proposed velodrome:
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/no-irish-velodrome-budget/

I'd expect Ross to be all in favour of indoor cycling that takes them out of the way of forcing cars to close pass them on the road...

Tenzor07

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'd expect Ross to be all in favour of indoor cycling that takes them out of the way of forcing cars to close pass them on the road...

And mountain biking! Moves cyclists off the road too...

That Ticknock trail near Stepaside, is in bits, needs a lot of repair work, and a few more trails to get best use out of the coillte lands..Could definitely do with some budget..

Chips Lovell

I'd be genuinely surprised if he even knew what a velodrome was.

Miklos

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

I'd be genuinely surprised if he even knew what a velodrome was.

"Wasn't Tina Turner in that?"

dbagman

Tenzor07 wrote:

That Ticknock trail near Stepaside, is in bits, needs a lot of repair work, and a few more trails to get best use out of the coillte lands..Could definitely do with some budget..

Sorry I'm not familiar with the area, but how do you propose they repair it? Tarmac it? Wouldn't be much of a mountain bike trail then would it??

Tim76

<Snip>

Macy0161

dbagman wrote: »

Sorry I'm not familiar with the area, but how do you propose they repair it? Tarmac it? Wouldn't be much of a mountain bike trail then would it??

Even "natural" trails do need maintenance work, due to wear and tear, weathering etc.

ednwireland

Just remember that politicians only have two aims in life get relected and stay on the gravy train as long as possible.
Its why you don't see management restructuring in the hse and layoffs. It's why they somehow think slapping a tax on sugary drinks is a solution where the solution is make schools not have vending machines and do have canteens that serve real food with nutritional guidelines.
Somehow replacing ice cars with electric cars is a solution where making sure that places are served by public transport that actually allows you to get to work before 9am .

But leo spends 5 million on a department of spin. They are all a f***in joke and wouldn't last 5 minutes in a real job.

Rant over

Tenzor07

dbagman wrote: »

Sorry I'm not familiar with the area, but how do you propose they repair it? Tarmac it? Wouldn't be much of a mountain bike trail then would it??

Is that meant to be a serious question or just taking the P?

Feckofff

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Is that meant to be a serious question or just taking the P?

People don't realise the work that goes into MTB trails, so I would guess it's an honest question.

Tenzor07

Feckofff wrote: »

People don't realise the work that goes into MTB trails, so I would guess it's an honest question.

I guess..

Anyone who's been around these trails would know they're in a bad state of repair, and need a lot of work done to restore and upgrade.

Ardennes1944

magicbastarder wrote: »

not quite true, i believe:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/05/amsterdam-bicycle-capital-world-transport-cycling-kindermoord

Good to see Basel is mentioned on that chart, theres great cycling infrstruture here

tomasrojo

Macy0161 wrote: »

The cities that are now held up as examples of cycling infrastructure now, were rebuilt after the war as car-centric cities.

It was in the 60's, with rising death rates of pedestrians and cyclists that the cities were reconfigured to prioritise pedestrians and cyclists.

Certainly, the change in policy seemed to really start having an effect in the mid-70s, which was 30 years after the end of WWII.

tomasrojo

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

Good to see Basel is mentioned on that chart, theres great cycling infrstruture here

I really loved cycling around Basel, back in the day.

mcgratheoin

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Cycling only loses if you think "cycling infrastructure" is a good idea. As a cyclist, I'd prefer if they spent the money on something else.

Well it also loses out in terms of public perception and government priorities. I agree with you that more sub standard "cycling infrastructure" is not a solution, but that the lack of any serious pro-cycling measures (e.g. incentivising companies to provide bike facilities, including showers) is annoying although expected. Additionally the lumping in of "walking and traffic management" and the clear bundling of cycling with tourism activities suggests that the government doesn't take cycling seriously as a contributor to a national transport plan.

The major issue around cycling, particularly in Dublin, is legitimising it as an acceptable mode of transport (separate from environmental/leisure/fitness activity) in the eyes of the driving public. There's no sign of this being addressed.

Kaisr Sose

dbagman wrote: »

Sorry I'm not familiar with the area, but how do you propose they repair it? Tarmac it? Wouldn't be much of a mountain bike trail then would it??

What, a smooth surface for cycling on.... Where is this nirvana?

eeeee

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

What, a smooth surface for cycling on.... Where is this nirvana?

Sundrive

dbagman

Tenzor07 wrote:

Is that meant to be a serious question or just taking the P?

Genuine question. I'd assume a mountain bike trail is meant to be rough given it's off road cycling? So what needs repairing?

Lusk_Doyle

dbagman wrote: »

Genuine question. I'd assume a mountain bike trail is meant to be rough given it's off road cycling? So what needs repairing?

Rough, yes. Uncycleable, no. Which is what it becomes if ut's not maintained as bits erode or fall away/collapse. Like any road, path, trail, etc that falls into disrepair if not maintained.

schemingbohemia

On topic - €110m for cycling and walking and €56m for Greenways over next 4 years
http://irishcycle.com/2017/10/11/e166m-allocated-to-cycling-and-walking-over-four-years/

dbagman

Lusk_Doyle wrote:

Rough, yes. Uncycleable, no. Which is what it becomes if ut's not maintained as bits erode or fall away/collapse. Like any road, path, trail, etc that falls into disrepair if not maintained.

Iv an uncle who mountain bikes. The muddier and tougher the terrain the better. Loves it. I'm still not getting how the ground can erode and collapse? Unless you're cycling on a cliff top? The ground becomes uneven the more it's used and the trail tougher perhaps, but then it's off road biking....isnt that the point?

mcgratheoin

dbagman wrote: »

I'm still not getting how the ground can erode and collapse? Unless you're cycling on a cliff top? The ground becomes uneven the more it's used and the trail tougher perhaps, but then it's off road biking....isnt that the point?

This kind of thing happens.


The whole idea of MTB trails is to create rideable off-road sections that can be taken (safelyish) at speed & with various technical challenges. If they erode too badly then there's no point in having a trail, you may as well just point a bike in any direction.

Tenzor07

dbagman wrote: »

Iv an uncle who mountain bikes. The muddier and tougher the terrain the better. Loves it. I'm still not getting how the ground can erode and collapse? Unless you're cycling on a cliff top? The ground becomes uneven the more it's used and the trail tougher perhaps, but then it's off road biking....isnt that the point?

Yea, if you were an MTB'er you'd understand...

"The Gap" trails in Glencullen show how it's supposed to be done, leave it to the private sector I guess!

Anyhoo, I'm sure the budget for trails maintenance comes from Coillte budget, or possibly the tourism budget...

AndrewJRenko

Tenzor07 wrote: »

dbagman wrote: »

Iv an uncle who mountain bikes. The muddier and tougher the terrain the better. Loves it. I'm still not getting how the ground can erode and collapse? Unless you're cycling on a cliff top? The ground becomes uneven the more it's used and the trail tougher perhaps, but then it's off road biking....isnt that the point?

Yea, if you were an MTB'er you'd understand...

"The Gap" trails in Glencullen show how it's supposed to be done, leave it to the private sector I guess!

Anyhoo, I'm sure the budget for trails maintenance comes from Coillte budget, or possibly the tourism budget...

How long did it take those really clever private sector folks to build the trails there?

Tenzor07

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How long did it take those really clever private sector folks to build the trails there?

In terms of? consulting, planning, design, construction, marketing, staffing, opening?

Macy0161

dbagman wrote: »

Iv an uncle who mountain bikes. The muddier and tougher the terrain the better. Loves it. I'm still not getting how the ground can erode and collapse? Unless you're cycling on a cliff top? The ground becomes uneven the more it's used and the trail tougher perhaps, but then it's off road biking....isnt that the point?

That's great that he's got the skills, but not every one does. That's why at trail centres they have different rated trails for different abilities.

However, it's not just about maintaining it for the mountain bikers, it's about preventing erosion and minimising impact on the surrounding landscape.

Anyway, I'm sure there's lots of people using them that aren't aware that even natural trails were built and/or maintained by other people and just assume they're following others and just heading into the forest...

AndrewJRenko

Tenzor07 wrote: »

In terms of? consulting, planning, design, construction, marketing, staffing, opening?

The whole shebang - you seem to be implying that trails just appear out of nowhere, and don't need to be maintained.

schemingbohemia

Sorry but any chance of some comments on the actual budget instead of all this ****eology on MTB trails and repairs?

Lusk_Doyle

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Sorry but any chance of some comments on the actual budget instead of all this ****eology on MTB trails and repairs?

Yes. The budget was announced the other day. Now, back to the trails!