Home Automation and Disconnections from Virgin Hub

Irish Gunner

Hi

Ok having a bit of trouble with my Virgin Media Hub and all of the Home Automation that I have in the house. I have the following

• Netatmo thermostat
• Hue Bulbs * 4
• Hue Go
• Harmony Hub
• Alexa
• Echo
• TP Link plugs * 2
• TP Links Wi-Fi adapter
• Logitech IP Cam
• Android Box

So along with us using the phones also there is a lot going on.

Now the issue is that I keep on having to reboot the Virgin Media hub on occasion as some items disconnect. This morning it was the IP Cam previously it was the Netatmo. I checked with Netatmo and they said their servers where ok and checking with Logitech the same. It’s just that we cannot then turn on the heating or sometimes lighting etc. when out of the house.

The issue gets resolved then when I reboot the Virgin Media Hub. I have been onto Virgin but I might as well be talking to my month one old son as get more sense from him. The Hub is upstairs and most of the items downstairs and I tried a Wi-Fi analyser app but can’t decipher anything from it to see if any interference. I had trouble connecting to Alexa but then Virgin put extra Wi-Fi option .5ghz.

Is there anyone else having the same issue or is there anything that I can check

kenmc

Not sure how enforced it is, but I remember seeing something on my virgin p.o.s. I mean hub about a limit of 12? Wi-Fi connections (at work now so can't be certain) at a time, so maybe that's your issue? Might be worth running a separate Wi-Fi network for home auto stuff, connected to the hub using one of the lab ports? Just a thought....

I usually have to reboot the stupid thing about once or twice a month anyway, and I don't have that many devices attached.... although now that I start counting...

Irish Gunner

Cheers

Thing is that I have 2 Wi-Fi connections set up on the router. One is VM***DAB5 and the other is VM***DAB5.5ghz. I was sick of having to reset Alexa anytime I had to reboot router and rang virgin and they set up the 5.5ghz so not sure if the Home Automations apps are connecting to this 5.5ghz or the regular one. I know Alexa is not sure of others. I don’t know if I can split the connections?

How can I separate the Wi fi network for Home Auto stuff?

bk

It is normal for modern wifi routers to have two separate wifi networks, one operating at 2.4GHz and one 5GHz. This is due to different evolving wifi standards. Generally 5GHz has more bandwidth then 2.4, but doesn't travel as far or well through walls, etc.

Which frequency each smart home device connects to depends on which frequencies each device supports and which frequency you selected in the devices wifi settings during setup.

Having said that, if the Virign router has a limit on the number of devices that can connect to it, I suspect it is at the DHCP level of the router itself, so the 12 devices level would be for all devices connected to the router, regardless of which wifi frequency each device happens to be using.

Personally I've Virgin, but I use their router as a simple modem, instead I use a more powerful and feature rich wifi router which connects to the Virgin router, but otherwise handles DHCP and all the wired and wireless devices connected to it. It is rock solid.

Irish Gunner

bk wrote: »

It is normal for modern wifi routers to have two separate wifi networks, one operating at 2.4GHz and one 5GHz. This is due to different evolving wifi standards. Generally 5GHz has more bandwidth then 2.4, but doesn't travel as far or well through walls, etc.

Which frequency each smart home device connects to depends on which frequencies each device supports and which frequency you selected in the devices wifi settings during setup.

Having said that, if the Virign router has a limit on the number of devices that can connect to it, I suspect it is at the DHCP level of the router itself, so the 12 devices level would be for all devices connected to the router, regardless of which wifi frequency each device happens to be using.

Personally I've Virgin, but I use their router as a simple modem, instead I use a more powerful and feature rich wifi router which connects to the Virgin router, but otherwise handles DHCP and all the wired and wireless devices connected to it. It is rock solid.

What router do you have and is it easy to set up?

bk

TP Link Archer C7, however that is quite old now. Without researching what the latest and greatest is, the Archer C9 looks like a decent option.

I've a full guide in the Broadband forum on how to set it up here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057367191

Irish Gunner

Virgin came back with this re limit on connections to 12

No the DHCP table wouldn't limit so low, most houses now would have at least 2 devices per person so a max connected device limit of 12 wouldn't really be workable.

Dazzy

In my experience the VM hub can't handle that load. Same as the OP, I was always rebooting the hub until I put the hub into bridge mode and installed my own router and AP's for wireless. I have about 30 devices at any one time (wired and wireless) on the Network and it all works fine now*.

I purchased a Ubiquiti router and AP's.

* Slingbox can take any network out :-)

bk

Well I don't think their is an actual limit as such on the number of IP's issued by the DHCP server *

* Strictly speaking their is probably a 256 device theoretical limit.

I think it is more that the processor and available memory on the router can't handle many devices connected to it at the same time. Specially if their is a lot of video streaming going on over wireless.

You have to remember that ISP supplied equipment is usually the cheapest of the cheap. With all corners possible cut, all their care about is getting a small number of devices working for the average light user. And that is fair enough IMO, afterall they normally give them away for free.

For power users like us, then I think you will need to invest in a better router. I see that the C7 I have is only £70! While an older device, it still works extremely well and good value for money if you can't stretch to the C9

The Ubiquiti setup that Dazzy has above it absolutely excellent, pretty much as good as you can get. I'll probably upgrade to the same in future. However it is a bit techy to setup and maybe overkill for the average Irish home.

Stoner

I had the C7 it's a great bit of kit

I replaced it with a Google onhub. BK doesn't like it , but I've never had to turn it on and off and I've cover everywhere.

I've over 40 bits of iot devices in my house.

I'm not counting amps, TVs, PS4, Xbox PCs fire TVs or Chromecasts I'd possibly have 60 devices overall.

I've left out Kindles, smart watches, smoke detectors and phones

However I have all my iot on the onhub router
Most require very little bandwidth, and some set up their own mesh networks.

A lot of the other devices I have are hardwired. Everywhere I have a group of devices , office, entertainment , gaming etc I have unmanaged Gbit switches
These are connected to a decent Gbit switch in my attic where my cctv, Nas, alarm etc all hook up to it too.

I have one DHCP server. It's not the onhub, so my computer traffic is not running over it just WiFi only devices

I recommend using wired where possible. The switches are only about 20 euro and you never have to put passwords on them. The sockets controlling them are connected to the onhub router and therefore I switch them off at night bar the main one in the Attic.

Renaming devices on Google WiFi is a doodle
The bonus here is that you get great connections at your wired points, you usually only need one data point in most cases in a house as rarely will someone stream music to the amp, have apple or Android TV on, Netflix on the TV and have the PS4 on. Usually only one device is connected.

So if something can be wired then I wire it
Changing wifi passwords is easier too.

One thing that I would take into consideration is the ability to rename devices on the WiFi network.
I can see many items like SONOFF, Nest Protect Smoke detectors etc. that don't connect to hubs or bridges so it's handy to have a router with fast access to the connected device list, and better again if it allows you to rename them to suit your needs.

We are going to be adding wifi control to devices at plug top points soon. So it's important to have a decent router.

bk

Stoner wrote: »

I replaced it with a Google onhub. BK doesn't like it , but I've never had to turn it on and off and I've cover everywhere.

Actually the Google OnHub looks great! My only complaint was that you are using an imported US one, which would use wifi frequencies not allowed in Europe. That can cause issues.

They have now launched Google Wifi (the mesh network setup) in Europe, so I assume it now has firmware support for European frequencies.

BTW Google Wifi if you use ethernet backhaul looks pretty good. I wouldn't use it as wifi backhaul, use ethernet instead. If people can't do ethernet, then I'd use Netgear Orbi with it's dedicated backhaul radio instead, far better performance.

Stoner wrote: »

A lot of the other devices I have are hardwired. Everywhere I have a group of devices , office, entertainment , gaming etc I have unmanaged Gbit switches
These are connected to a decent Gbit switch in my attic where my cctv, Nas, alarm etc all hook up to it too.

I highly recommend this. I've ethernet throughout my home and use multiple Gbit switches for every device that has an ethernet port. Really takes the strain off the wifi network.

Black_Knight

+1 on ubiquiti. Got myself an the AP Lite last month, and while there's a bit of setup involved, it's been pretty flawless compared to using the Virgin (UPC) router I have (wireless devices were constantly falling off the network/dropping packets).
The result with my new AP; much better wifi connectivity and reliability, no more devices dropping off the network, & increased wifi range.

Irish Gunner

Thanks for the replies

Would like to possible look at purchasing the Archer C9. Have Virgin Hub upstairs and connected to this is DECT phone and Hue Hub and if I get another router not sure if enough room on the shelf. We do stream via android box via tp link plugs so not using Wi-Fi for this. All others are using the Wi-Fi with exception of desktop PC which is hardwired

However the possibility of having no more drop offs is tempting so if I do get Archer C9 would this eliminate the drop offs?

Virgin came back with the below

if you have the time try save your current set up via the modem admin then factory reset and try connect everything with the default set up again - it could be a solution but if not you can re apply your config file to the modem in the admin page again.

I don't want to do this as I will have to probably reset all home automations again correct?

bk

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Would like to possible look at purchasing the Archer C9. Have Virgin Hub upstairs and connected to this is DECT phone and Hue Hub and if I get another router not sure if enough room on the shelf. We do stream via android box via tp link plugs so not using Wi-Fi for this. All others are using the Wi-Fi with exception of desktop PC which is hardwired

You'll just have to get a bigger shelf :P

With a good, well positioned wifi router, you could probably get rid of the tp-link plugs if you wanted to.

Irish Gunner wrote: »

However the possibility of having no more drop offs is tempting so if I do get Archer C9 would this eliminate the drop offs?

I suspect it will, but of course no guarantees. It can depend on things like position of the router, size of the house, materials that walls are made out of and interference from neighbours, etc.

I will say that it should be much better then the Virgin hub and 99% of people who I've recommended a c7/c9 to have come back and said it made a fantastic difference and solved all their problems.

But it is impossible to guarantee. That is why I recommend buying it from somewhere with an easy no quibble return policy. Buy it, try it out and return it if it doesn't work out for you.

all I can say is that I couldn't be happier with mine.

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Virgin came back with the below

if you have the time try save your current set up via the modem admin then factory reset and try connect everything with the default set up again - it could be a solution but if not you can re apply your config file to the modem in the admin page again.

I don't want to do this as I will have to probably reset all home automations again correct?

Probably, yes, sounds like they don't really know. It is the typical turn it off and back on again "solution"

Irish Gunner

bk wrote: »

You'll just have to get a bigger shelf :P

With a good, well positioned wifi router, you could probably get rid of the tp-link plugs if you wanted to.



I suspect it will, but of course no guarantees. It can depend on things like position of the router, size of the house, materials that walls are made out of and interference from neighbours, etc.

I will say that it should be much better then the Virgin hub and 99% of people who I've recommended a c7/c9 to have come back and said it made a fantastic difference and solved all their problems.

But it is impossible to guarantee. That is why I recommend buying it from somewhere with an easy no quibble return policy. Buy it, try it out and return it if it doesn't work out for you.

all I can say is that I couldn't be happier with mine.



Probably, yes, sounds like they don't really know. It is the typical turn it off and back on again "solution"

took the plunge and got the C9 from Amazon warehouse so will see how it goes and if easy to set up. I will follow your instructions. Hopefully it will resolve the drop outs. For the TP Plugs. This is plugged into downstairs socket and then wired up to Android box. Watched a few things and buffering is the only issue. Are you saying that with the Archer I will potentially get better wifi than what I get with the wired TP Plugs?

Now time to get a bigger shelf:p

bk

Irish Gunner wrote: »

took the plunge and got the C9 from Amazon warehouse so will see how it goes and if easy to set up. I will follow your instructions. Hopefully it will resolve the drop outs. For the TP Plugs. This is plugged into downstairs socket and then wired up to Android box. Watched a few things and buffering is the only issue. Are you saying that with the Archer I will potentially get better wifi than what I get with the wired TP Plugs?

Yes, possibly, powerline plugs sometimes don't have much better performance then wifi. On the other hand, no harm in leaving it as it is if you prefer.

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Now time to get a bigger shelf:p

Just wait until you have so much gear that it needs it's own room like I have!

Irish Gunner

bk wrote: »

Yes, possibly, powerline plugs sometimes don't have much better performance then wifi. On the other hand, no harm in leaving it as it is if you prefer.



Just wait until you have so much gear that it needs it's own room like I have!

Just about enough room for myself

Read your set up and seems ok. However have the Hue Hub plugged into the Virgin router so once I set up with the new modem I plug this into Archer. Same goes for DECT phone I have with virgin do I plug this into the Archer?

Take it that I will have to amend the wifi so at the moment its VM****** then I set up 2 new wifi with one 2ghz and the other with 5?

Hopefully it will prevent the drop outs esp with the Netatmo but means I have to set up the other Home Auto apps again:rolleyes:

Ah well hopefully the end justify the means

bk

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Just about enough room for myself

Read your set up and seems ok. However have the Hue Hub plugged into the Virgin router so once I set up with the new modem I plug this into Archer. Same goes for DECT phone I have with virgin do I plug this into the Archer?

You leave the DECT phone plugged into the Virgin router, everything else should be plugged into the C9

Irish Gunner wrote: »

Take it that I will have to amend the wifi so at the moment its VM****** then I set up 2 new wifi with one 2ghz and the other with 5?

Hopefully it will prevent the drop outs esp with the Netatmo but means I have to set up the other Home Auto apps again:rolleyes:

Ah well hopefully the end justify the means

Yes, you will need to connect them to one of the two wifi networks on the C9. However you maybe able to do it without a complete reset, just change the wifi and password in the settings of each device.

Irish Gunner

Hi

 Ok the Archer arrived over the weekend and set it up

 So took everything out from the virgin hub and put it into the relevant ports on the Archer. Then linked the hub to the Internet port on the Archer. The phone is still plugged into the virgin hub. Then logged into the archer and then changed the channels from Auto and also set up a new Wi-Fi both 2ghz and 5. Then I logged into the virgin hub and disabled the Wi-Fi on this. So router, Modem, Phone and Philips Hub all on the one shelf. Then I tried to login to the Wi-Fi and checked the speed and it was awful. Then I realised I forgot to add the aerials. First I had the aerials standing straight and still not great but then I moved the aerials about. Checked the speeds via speed test apps and was getting over 140 mbs downstairs and close to 200 upstairs this was on the 5ghz. So I got rid of the tp link plugs as Wi-Fi speed better than these connected to TV’s

 However for some reason yesterday we could not connect to either Wi-Fi and realised this after shouting at Alexa to turn off the lights. It was asking to login did and nothing. So I did the old turn it off and on again and this fixed it. The reason I bought the archer was to prevent this as we cannot connect to automation apps remotely when this happened with the Hub

 Is there any reason that it can drop and anything I can do to prevent this from re-occurring?

Stoner

Irish Gunner wrote:

Is there any reason that it can drop and anything I can do to prevent this from re-occurring?

Irish Gunner you've moved into the broadband forum zone

Would you consider posting there

Irish Gunner

Stoner wrote: »

Irish Gunner you've moved into the broadband forum zone

Would you consider posting there

Sure just move post there

BrookieD

Funny reading the OP today as i had a hellish time over last week re-setting up my Belkin insight and link bulbs on the Virgin Hub 3. In the end i placed it into bridge mode this morning and set up my Belkin AC1800 again and everything came back on line in 5 mins. Just getting ready for my new google Home next week. Bloody Hub was useless

Irish Gunner

I've hub in modem mode and using Archer c9.

No drop outs and fantastic WiFi around the house definitely recommded.

Got some assistance over on the broadband thread and here also but easy enough to set up

bk

I'm delighted to hear it worked out for you 😊

I think a good quality wifi router is a most for those of us into the HA toys. The ISP supplied gear simply isn't up for the strains that the likes of us put on it.