Renting out

nicedryturf

I've inherited 30 acres. I have a green cert myself but I'm too busy at the moment to be farming so I'm planning on renting it out. A few quick questions - is it true the rent relief is only available if I rent to a "trained" farmer or does it make any difference about the renters qualification?

If anyone else is renting here, are they letting off their entitlements also? It's very sound land on Tipp-Cork border, I'm surrounded by dairymen and land around is making 300 per acre - a few of the prospective renters have advised that theyd be looking for the entitlements at that money.

K.G.

If its boundsing a dairy farmer its worth 300 plus entitlements but be warned start from the right client back to the money.

nicedryturf

K.G. wrote: »

If its boundsing a dairy farmer its worth 300 plus entitlements but be warned start from the right client back to the money.

And the the client doesn't need any particular qualification for me to claim tax relief on rent?

kowtow

nicedryturf wrote: »

And the the client doesn't need any particular qualification for me to claim tax relief on rent?

AFAIK needs to meet the definition of an active farmer for you to retain the CAT (inheritance) relief if it is relevant to you, although I think you said you had a green cert yourself in which case that is a non issue.

I would have thought any dairy farmer would meet the active farmer definition automatically.

And as far as the relief on rental income is concerned I think as long as they are renting for farming purposes and not a connected party (family etc.) then you are good to go.

rangler1

nicedryturf wrote: »

I've inherited 30 acres. I have a green cert myself but I'm too busy at the moment to be farming so I'm planning on renting it out. A few quick questions - is it true the rent relief is only available if I rent to a "trained" farmer or does it make any difference about the renters qualification?

If anyone else is renting here, are they letting off their entitlements also? It's very sound land on Tipp-Cork border, I'm surrounded by dairymen and land around is making 300 per acre - a few of the prospective renters have advised that theyd be looking for the entitlements at that money.

It's looking likely that the entitlements will be taken off landlords in 2020. It's all up in the air at the moment but the person working the land and claiming the subsidies should have the entitlements to be fair.
as said above if you're surrounded by dairying 300 + entitlements should be available

C0N0R

rangler1 wrote: »

nicedryturf wrote: »

I've inherited 30 acres. I have a green cert myself but I'm too busy at the moment to be farming so I'm planning on renting it out. A few quick questions - is it true the rent relief is only available if I rent to a "trained" farmer or does it make any difference about the renters qualification?

If anyone else is renting here, are they letting off their entitlements also? It's very sound land on Tipp-Cork border, I'm surrounded by dairymen and land around is making 300 per acre - a few of the prospective renters have advised that theyd be looking for the entitlements at that money.

It's looking likely that the entitlements will be taken off landlords in 2020. It's all up in the air at the moment but the person working the land and claiming the subsidies should have the entitlements to be fair.
as said above if you're surrounded by dairying 300 + entitlements should be available

Any idea what might happen in a situation where a farm was leased out from 2017 - 2022 with the tenant drawing down the entitlements and returning to owner, and then the owner wished to commence farming again, would the tenant hold onto the entitlements in that scenario? Would it then make sense for the owner to sell his entitlements in 2019 instead?

alps

rangler1 wrote: »

as said above if you're surrounded by dairying 300 + entitlements should be available

For the first year or two anyway.......

Panch18

300 plus entitlements sounds nothing short of insanity IMO

kk.man

Panch18 wrote: »

300 plus entitlements sounds nothing short of insanity IMO

But great if you get it !

rangler1

C0N0R wrote: »

Any idea what might happen in a situation where a farm was leased out from 2017 - 2022 with the tenant drawing down the entitlements and returning to owner, and then the owner wished to commence farming again, would the tenant hold onto the entitlements in that scenario? Would it then make sense for the owner to sell his entitlements in 2019 instead?

Anyone buying entitlements would only be gambling, if he buys in 2019 and the new CAP reform is based on historical reference years, say 2016 -2018 he won't get the benefit, or if it goes the way it was supposed to go the last time, ie flat payments, he'd get on benefit either.
Even if 2019 was a reference year, there'd usually be the average of three years. For the last CAP Reform a alot of the tenants ended up owning the entitlements that they were leasing before, and my money would be on the same this time only a lot more in the favour of the tenant.
Share farming is probably the best option if you want to keep your entitlements, but the Tax incentive of leasing is way more than entitlements are going to be worth in 5years.........discuss

digzy

nicedryturf wrote: »

I've inherited 30 acres. I have a green cert myself but I'm too busy at the moment to be farming so I'm planning on renting it out. A few quick questions - is it true the rent relief is only available if I rent to a "trained" farmer or does it make any difference about the renters qualification?

If anyone else is renting here, are they letting off their entitlements also? It's very sound land on Tipp-Cork border, I'm surrounded by dairymen and land around is making 300 per acre - a few of the prospective renters have advised that theyd be looking for the entitlements at that money.

You need yo have a lease in place for a minimum term of 5 years to avoid the tax

C4d78

Opportunity has come up to rent 35 acres, on bounds ditch on milking platform. (Good dry ground) Opportunity won’t come again as Big dairy area.
Not much care would have been put into place lately.
Would need lime and P&K would be low and most of it would need to be reseeded.
It’d also need roadways as there are no paddocks.
With all this in mind and a 5 year lease in the offering what do lads think would be max could justify per acre.
Reseeding alone would be almost €300/acre if I’m correct.
Roadways €15/m
Not to mention Water troughs and Water piping.
Any advice or figures appreciated??

MIKEKC

rangler1 wrote: »

It's looking likely that the entitlements will be taken off landlords in 2020. It's all up in the air at the moment but the person working the land and claiming the subsidies should have the entitlements to be fair.
as said above if you're surrounded by dairying 300 + entitlements should be available

Where did you see that entitlements will be taken off landlords in 2020?.people are being encouraged to rent long term by government policy.

Mooooo

C4d78 wrote: »

Opportunity has come up to rent 35 acres, on bounds ditch on milking platform. (Good dry ground) Opportunity won’t come again as Big dairy area.
Not much care would have been put into place lately.
Would need lime and P&K would be low and most of it would need to be reseeded.
It’d also need roadways as there are no paddocks.
With all this in mind and a 5 year lease in the offering what do lads think would be max could justify per acre.
Reseeding alone would be almost €300/acre if I’m correct.
Roadways €15/m
Not to mention Water troughs and Water piping.
Any advice or figures appreciated??

It depends where you are in the country, perhaps get on to an auctioneer and see what way land is running locally. Re the roadway will you be putting a road to the ditch or continuing thru the land? Could turn the topsoil down and subsoil on top if only cattle using it, or depending on layout of land could you fence in such a way not to need to put a roadway in? Tbh I don't think I'd pay 300 for ground, esp if it needs work, 200 to 250 max. Depends on scenario really

C4d78

Mooooo wrote: »

It depends where you are in the country, perhaps get on to an auctioneer and see what way land is running locally. Re the roadway will you be putting a road to the ditch or continuing thru the land? Could turn the topsoil down and subsoil on top if only cattle using it, or depending on layout of land could you fence in such a way not to need to put a roadway in? Tbh I don't think I'd pay 300 for ground, esp if it needs work, 200 to 250 max. Depends on scenario really

Cork. I know land making up to and above €300 in the area but in this case with so much to spend I’m doubting it’s it’d be profitable. Would have to continue through the land with the roadway. Maybe as you say inverting the topsoil might do but even at that. Low PH , P and K I’m thinking €250 MAX as well. Would figured would people put on sorting soil fertility. ?

Markcheese

It's the p + K, lime and grass seed that your caught with, you'd only really have the ground "up to speed" when the 5 years'd be up, and then you're back into a bidding war...
A lot depends on who owns the ground, what they want for it (it's care), and Wether they think it's brilliant now or realise that it needs work...
. .

J.O. Farmer

MIKEKC wrote: »

Where did you see that entitlements will be taken off landlords in 2020?.people are being encouraged to rent long term by government policy.

Entitlements were seperated from land in the last CAP but maybe that's why the government is encouraging long term leasing. It will make it easier to take entitlements from those not farming and give them to those who are.

Details of CAP post 2019 have not been made public but it is likely that entitlements will be taken off them in much the same way as the previous CAP.

As landlords can't draw entitlements themselves the tenants are drawing them for them. There's a fair chance that the entitlements under the current scheme will be replaced with entitlements under the new scheme given to those who drew them in the current scheme.

In that way landlords will lose entitlements but whether tenants gain and by how much remains to be seen as there is a shift away from direct subsidies at EU level. There will probably be a flattening of payments and over the next couple of decades entitlements will probably be reduced or even eliminated with money going to things like environmental schemes.