Viewing a house. Then estimating costs

tom_tarbucket

Hi All,

I am in the process for the last while of viewing houses. No luck yet. I know one can go in to a house and it may be advertised for 300,000, that's fine, at least, I know the ball park figure there, + or - (if things dont get too silly with bidding etc)

My problem is when I go in to a house and I would like to do changes, which depending on the house could be anything from:

law down tiles in hall and kitchen, do up a bathroom
knock a concrete wall and open up room
move kitchen from current location to further out in back lawn i.e extension etc
dryline all the walls
put in a new kitchen
re do back lawn
build a concrete shed out the back
replace current stairs
paint outside and inside of house, new carpet all round
etc etc


I know my examples above are not very specific and every case is different, but so is every house. Some houses might need a lot of work, some not so much, but im open either way.

For the ones that need work done, my problem is just simply estimating how much more I need to spend, like to knock a concrete wall, does it costs 1000 or 5000 (just an example) , I dont know, and this is my big problem. I have no knowledge of these costs.

Who is the best person to engage before purchasing a house to estimate how much works could cost?

Would they normally be in a position to come and view a house if one was in the very very interested stage - to give a cost estimation ?

Cuddlesworth

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Would they normally be in a position to come and view a house if one was in the very very interested stage - to give a cost estimation ?

You could arrange visits and get a quote. Word of advise though, in my opinion there is no value in buying a "needs work" house in Ireland. Your much better off saving and just picking up a turn key house.

The Mulk

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You could arrange visits and get a quote. Word of advise though, in my opinion there is no value in buying a "needs work" house in Ireland. Your much better off saving and just picking up a turn key house.

I'd be of the opposite opinion, turn key houses attract all the bidders and usually go way over asking. Houses needing work put all lot of people off.
Although it depends how much work you can do yourself. I would hate having to pay for even the smallest job!
Try pick a house that will only need cosmetic work/modernisation. Extensions aren't cheap.

Cuddlesworth

The Mulk wrote: »

I'd be of the opposite opinion, turn key houses attract all the bidders and usually go way over asking. Houses needing work put all lot of people off.
Although it depends how much work you can do yourself. I would hate having to pay for even the smallest job!
Try pick a house that will only need cosmetic work/modernisation. Extensions aren't cheap.

Not in Dublin. You can have houses that have 100k in "work" between them but the difference in price is half that.

tom_tarbucket

Thanks for replies, but can we keep to the questions I am asking. who is best to engage etc

Cuddlesworth

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thanks for replies, but can we keep to the questions I am asking. who is best to engage etc

Right, I'm going to take a guess and say you have never had or done building work.

You "can" find a builder, expect to pay to have him come to multiple houses to give rough quotes.

Quotes can be 10-30% either side of what you get in terms of ball park figures at a viewing.

Take a bathroom for example. Tiling could be 200 or 2 grand, same with bathroom fittings. It's all dependant on labour, time, finish and cost of materials.

You really need to know "exactly" what you want before you start. You can use other houses for example.

The Mulk

.

Back on-topic, i was quoted €4,500 to take down a supporting wall between a dining room and Kitchen.
A Quantity Surveyor will be able to price all the work for you, but if you contact tradesmen they can give you rough ideas. You really need to know what you want done and set your budget or it can become a money pit.
As Cuddlesworth said buy the finished house, especially if you've no experience or background in building.
It takes time and money. An extension could set you back 60-70k if you need new kitchen etc.

tom_tarbucket

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Right, I'm going to take a guess and say you have never had or done building work.

You "can" find a builder, expect to pay to have him come to multiple houses to give rough quotes.

Quotes can be 10-30% either side of what you get in terms of ball park figures at a viewing.

Take a bathroom for example. Tiling could be 200 or 2 grand, same with bathroom fittings. It's all dependant on labour, time, finish and cost of materials.

You really need to know "exactly" what you want before you start. You can use other houses for example.

The answer is yes to your question. Which is why I am asking the question in the first place.

But high level, a Builder is the person I need to engage to give me a high level ball park figure of costs.

The Mulk

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

The answer is yes to your question. Which is why I am asking the question in the first place.

But high level, a Builder is the person I need to engage to give me a high level ball park figure of costs.

Check out the price/costs board on here.
I found it good when trying to get rough prices or for advice.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1245

tom_tarbucket

The Mulk wrote: »

.

Back on-topic, i was quoted €4,500 to take down a supporting wall between a dining room and Kitchen.
A Quantity Surveyor will be able to price all the work for you, but if you contact tradesmen they can give you rough ideas. You really need to know what you want done and set your budget or it can become a money pit.
As Cuddlesworth said buy the finished house, especially if you've no experience or background in building.
It takes time and money. An extension could set you back 60-70k if you need new kitchen etc.

Thanks. 4500 g’s , ok. Tricky when they are supporting walls alright.


Sonthis is the thing, who is it best to engage

1. Builder
2. Architect
3. Quantity surveyor

Wesser

Hi there.

I had the exact same problem when I started out house searching . I had no idea how muvh i could bid as i had no idea of costs. I posted a similar thread anout it here but i felt nobody really ' got' my question.

What you have to do is if you are serious about the house to organise to bring a trusty builder. Bring him to a few houses and over time you will learn how much things cost , you will learn, you will develop a more critical eye. My trusty builder did a great job for a friend if mine and I used to text him and ask him to view houses with me. He was a super advisor, not just about costs, but he was also able to spot structural problems and damp and.... just potential problems. He also noticed things like.... light aspect heat etc etc. I listened to him and I learnt. I used to throw him a few quid each time. Also read posts here on boards and you will learn.
So you need to ask around friernds and work mates for a trusty builder!!!!!

tom_tarbucket

Wesser wrote: »

Hi there.

I had the exact same problem when I started out house searching . I had no idea how muvh i could bid as i had no idea of costs. I posted a similar thread anout it here but i felt nobody really ' got' my question.

What you have to do is if you are serious about the house to organise to bring a trusty builder. Bring him to a few houses and over time you will learn how much things cost , you will learn, you will develop a more critical eye. My trusty builder did a great job for a friend if mine and I used to text him and ask him to view houses with me. He was a super advisor, not just about costs, but he was also able to spot structural problems and damp and.... just potential problems. He also noticed things like.... light aspect heat etc etc. I listened to him and I learnt. I used to throw him a few quid each time. Also read posts here on boards and you will learn.
So you need to ask around friernds and work mates for a trusty builder!!!!!

Thanks Wesser. Great reply.
Glad I’m not the only one. I appreciate the replies - I really do. But yeah, with some of the replies, I feel people do not “get” me either and just miss my question. I sometimes feel really stupid on these forums, most people on here know their stuff and the basic questions I am asking would probably not enter their head.

Anyways, yeah. Having a builder I can trust is key. Anyone know of one in mid galway?

Sleeper12

tom_tarbucket wrote:

Who is the best person to engage before purchasing a house to estimate how much works could cost?

I'm a plumber myself and never quote for work until you own the house. I doubt that you will get any trades to quote till you actually own the property.

You should get an engineer to inspect the property before you buy. He/she can give you an idea on pricing of alterations you might want.

tom_tarbucket

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm a plumber myself and never quote for work until you own the house. I doubt that you will get any trades to quote till you actually own the property.

You should get an engineer to inspect the property before you buy. He/she can give you an idea on pricing of alterations you might want.

Thanks.

Right. So we have builders, architects, quantity surveyors and now engineers.

What kind of an engineer would do this work ?

I’m just confused again as to who to actually engage !!!

Wesser

A builder.

An engineer will only comment on the structural aspects.

He won't have a nice about how much it will cost to paint a house. It's not structural.

A builder has knowledge if everything!! He works with engineers architects plumbers.

Most if all you need to find someone you trust and who has alot of experience. You don't need an exact price . Just a rough estimate.

Askthe EA

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Would they normally be in a position to come and view a house if one was in the very very interested stage - to give a cost estimation ?

You could arrange visits and get a quote. Word of advise though, in my opinion there is no value in buying a "needs work" house in Ireland. Your much better off saving and just picking up a turn key house.

I STRONGLY disagree with you...

Wesser

Ooh!!! I like strong disagreements!!!

Sleeper12

tom_tarbucket wrote:

What kind of an engineer would do this work ?

You need your building inspected before you buy it. Your bank sends out a surveyor but Purley to value it & to see that it will stand for the duration of the mortgage but you will still need you own inspection. A structural engineer is best for this. While he is inspecting the building he can give you an idea of what works will cost.

tom_tarbucket wrote:

Right. So we have builders, architects, quantity surveyors and now engineers.

Be very careful of "builders". A builder will build you a house or extension. A builder won't go from house to house with you. He will be much too busy for something like this. If he did he wouldn't settle for throwing him a few bob.

When most people say builder they mean a handyman. Some handymen know their stuff but most have never qualified at any trade at all. Ask yourself this, why would a tradesman call himself a handyman when he would earn more per hour by using his real trade name.

Askthe EA

Wesser wrote: »

Ooh!!! I like strong disagreements!!!

It's the football match I reckon....

A_Sober_Paddy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You could arrange visits and get a quote. Word of advise though, in my opinion there is no value in buying a "needs work" house in Ireland. Your much better off saving and just picking up a turn key house.

Well I got a needs work house 7 months ago. We got it for 105k put about 20k(remodeling, new heating system, decoration, furniture etc) mortgage is 46% of my rent at the time. My neighbours house which is in a terrible state just sold for 140k

Askthe EA

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You could arrange visits and get a quote. Word of advise though, in my opinion there is no value in buying a "needs work" house in Ireland. Your much better off saving and just picking up a turn key house.

Well I got a needs work house 7 months ago. We got it for 105k put about 20k(remodeling, new heating system, decoration, furniture etc) mortgage is 46% of my rent at the time. My neighbours house which is in a terrible state just sold for 140k

This! There's simply less demand for fixer uppers.

hometruths

Askthe EA wrote: »

This! There's simply less demand for fixer uppers.

I would have thought getting mortgage approval on a fixer upper is a lot harder, so right off the bat you're competing with a smaller pool of buyers.

Most of the remaining buyers would have similiar problems and concerns as the OP - i.e how do you accurately cost something on the strength of a couple of viewings. That will put off another swathe.

Sure builders can cost the job, buy the property and do the job themselves; I know of a few builders who kept themselves going during recession buying fixer uppers, but I reckon most would now prefer to take the regular work when there is plenty available.

So you're left with cash rich investors with experience of renovating property.

No I have no idea how many of them are active but certainly they're not as numerous as regular Joes with mortgage approval looking for family home.

Common sense would surely suggest there is value to be had for a buyer with the funds and knowledge to take on a fixer upper.

Askthe EA

A fixer upper doesn't have to be expensive. A 3 bed semi needing say a new kitchen,windows flooring painting could be done for 20k. Banks will lend for structural stuff alright but it's a pain.

If you have more than the 10% deposit, you'll be competing with far less buyers.

quadrifoglio verde

Askthe EA wrote: »

A fixer upper doesn't have to be expensive. A 3 bed semi needing say a new kitchen,windows flooring painting could be done for 20k. Banks will lend for structural stuff alright but it's a pain.

If you have more than the 10% deposit, you'll be competing with far less buyers.

That's a 20 year old house
You can move in and do it slowly. Worst thing that happens is some heat escapes out the windows until they're replaced.
All you're really doing is redecorating.

Fixer upper to me is one that has all the hallmarks of an executor sale. All thats left is the 70s psychidelic flooring, woodchip on the walls, a poky gloomy kitchen out the back. an avocado toilet for your morning dump. single glazing.
The house needs to be gutted, the house rewired and replummed. Changes in the internal layout and an extension out the back
That to me is a fixer upper. Habitable but nasty. Generally the only positive of a fixer upper is that it can't get any worse!

amtc

You asked who you needed. I was in the lucky position of having a site engineer friend married to an architect. However his advice when he wasn't available was to go to a building site and find the foreman and ask him to do it, or to go to the local school and find out who did diy evening classes. Obviously these are just estimates. If you were in Dublin my dad would do it (he's an ex building project manager). He uses the website of the Chartered Institute of Surveyors for per m costs. The reason I didn't use him to do mine is he has an obsession with light. My kitchen is quite dark but it suits me as I only use it in the evening and has lots of mood lighting. I was getting my house painted a few years ago and came home to find my dad had wandered in and met the painter and between them had sketched out plans to remove various walls and put in glass blocks. Thankfully I got home before they progressed to hire a local builder!

budhabob

In terms of bringing someone with you, a trusted builder is probably the best option.

There are other options too, in terms of doing some research yourself, that's what I did, but had a fair idea myself e.g.
New Kitchen - 5-7k from Ikea, >12k anywhere else
Rewire - 6-7k
New boiler 4k
Windows and doors - 10-12k
Extension - 60-100k
etc.

In relation to it being cheaper / better value to buy a turn key v's a doer upper, once you know what youre doing, how to get best value, and can do a good chunk of work yourself theres WAY more value in buying a doer upper (in Dublin!!!).

tom_tarbucket

budhabob wrote: »

In terms of bringing someone with you, a trusted builder is probably the best option.

There are other options too, in terms of doing some research yourself, that's what I did, but had a fair idea myself e.g.
New Kitchen - 5-7k from Ikea, >12k anywhere else
Rewire - 6-7k
New boiler 4k
Windows and doors - 10-12k
Extension - 60-100k
etc.

In relation to it being cheaper / better value to buy a turn key v's a doer upper, once you know what youre doing, how to get best value, and can do a good chunk of work yourself theres WAY more value in buying a doer upper (in Dublin!!!).

brilliant, thanks. This is what im looking for

And finally after all the posts, I am thinking the best person to engage is a decent builder (not architect, not quantity surveyor, not engineer)

Now indeed, you could well engage the architect, engineer and quantity surveyor, but for my needs, a decent builder should know the story better than I ever could.

Thanks for your high level figures.

tom_tarbucket

amtc wrote: »

You asked who you needed. I was in the lucky position of having a site engineer friend married to an architect. However his advice when he wasn't available was to go to a building site and find the foreman and ask him to do it, or to go to the local school and find out who did diy evening classes. Obviously these are just estimates. If you were in Dublin my dad would do it (he's an ex building project manager). He uses the website of the Chartered Institute of Surveyors for per m costs. The reason I didn't use him to do mine is he has an obsession with light. My kitchen is quite dark but it suits me as I only use it in the evening and has lots of mood lighting. I was getting my house painted a few years ago and came home to find my dad had wandered in and met the painter and between them had sketched out plans to remove various walls and put in glass blocks. Thankfully I got home before they progressed to hire a local builder!

Thank you, your dad must be a fan of Dermot Bannon

Wheeliebin30

Extensions 60-100k????

BrokenArrows

When i was buying and had already chosen the house i arranged a few viewings and i brought along trades people to quote for the work i wanted.
Some trades people are more accommodating than others. Some dont want to view a job when you dont even own the house yet.

Your only option is to start trying to get people to come to the houses with you and quote for work.
Eventually you will form a ballpark figure of how much things cost.

tom_tarbucket

BrokenArrows wrote: »

When i was buying and had already chosen the house i arranged a few viewings and i brought along trades people to quote for the work i wanted.
Some trades people are more accommodating than others. Some dont want to view a job when you dont even own the house yet.

Your only option is to start trying to get people to come to the houses with you and quote for work.
Eventually you will form a ballpark figure of how much things cost.

yeah, I can imagine the hassle of trying to get trades people in - especially when they may not be guaranteed a job.

I am thinking it will be hard enough just to get 1 person, i.e a builder in to have a gander )

tom_tarbucket

may as well ask this question here too:

Can anyone recommend a builder in Galway that may help with my request?

budhabob

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

may as well ask this question here too:

Can anyone recommend a builder in Galway that may help with my request?

Not to confuse things, your question was purely related to doing up a house, but you should also have a structural assessment done - it may be a requirement of the mortgage provider anyway. So you will still likely also need to engage an engineer.

A_Sober_Paddy

schmittel wrote: »

I would have thought getting mortgage approval on a fixer upper is a lot harder, so right off the bat you're competing with a smaller pool of buyers.

Most of the remaining buyers would have similiar problems and concerns as the OP - i.e how do you accurately cost something on the strength of a couple of viewings. That will put off another swathe.

Sure builders can cost the job, buy the property and do the job themselves; I know of a few builders who kept themselves going during recession buying fixer uppers, but I reckon most would now prefer to take the regular work when there is plenty available.

So you're left with cash rich investors with experience of renovating property.

No I have no idea how many of them are active but certainly they're not as numerous as regular Joes with mortgage approval looking for family home.

Common sense would surely suggest there is value to be had for a buyer with the funds and knowledge to take on a fixer upper.

Well in my case it's structural sound and in a good location with regards letting it out or resale

amtc

Someone had a boiler quote of 4k here. Both myself and my parents got ours replaced for 1800 in last month

amtc

My dad uses some builder and trade guys in the north to carry out projects. They're pretty cheap and will travel. If you want their number will pm you

budhabob

amtc wrote: »

Someone had a boiler quote of 4k here. Both myself and my parents got ours replaced for 1800 in last month

They were pretty generous estimates as theres no info on whether the boiler would have to be moved, changing the water tank etc.

I got boiler replaced, moved, couple of rads removed / added and hot water tank changed for about 3.5k.

tom_tarbucket

amtc wrote: »

My dad uses some builder and trade guys in the north to carry out projects. They're pretty cheap and will travel. If you want their number will pm you

thanks, may take you up on this at some stage

LirW

I can only urge you to keep in mind when you start scraping at the surface of a fixer upper you will most likely find problems that weren't obvious.
We bought a fixer upper for f all money and wanted to do work bit by bit and in the end do the whole lot at once now. Classic problems would be the wiring of the house needs to be replaced and the plumbing isn't up to date to satisfy the heating needs in 2017. This is all too common, plenty of these houses have old boilers and old cylinders. Before you engage any of the other work I'd get a plumber and an electrician in to inspect the status quo, because most people have no knowledge about either.
I made the experience while a nice tiling is wonderful to have, a sufficient heating system is 100 times more important. You probably won't get to test the heating before you close the sale so it's really important to check that.

Also make sure that the surveyor you hire is good and reputable. I made the painful experience that a fixer upper + a bad surveyor are a horrible and costly combination.

tom_tarbucket

LirW wrote: »

I can only urge you to keep in mind when you start scraping at the surface of a fixer upper you will most likely find problems that weren't obvious.
We bought a fixer upper for f all money and wanted to do work bit by bit and in the end do the whole lot at once now. Classic problems would be the wiring of the house needs to be replaced and the plumbing isn't up to date to satisfy the heating needs in 2017. This is all too common, plenty of these houses have old boilers and old cylinders. Before you engage any of the other work I'd get a plumber and an electrician in to inspect the status quo, because most people have no knowledge about either.
I made the experience while a nice tiling is wonderful to have, a sufficient heating system is 100 times more important. You probably won't get to test the heating before you close the sale so it's really important to check that.

Also make sure that the surveyor you hire is good and reputable. I made the painful experience that a fixer upper + a bad surveyor are a horrible and costly combination.

Thanks.
Yeah, this is purely the reason why I started this thread, so I can maybe pre empt all these things and not go in blind.

Most of the houses im viewing were built in the 2000's, so hopefully nothing too too major will need to be done.

dont know what the corr etc age limit is on a fixer upper, suppose any house that is second hand really, but you would imagine a house in the 2000's should be ok, then again maybe not !!!

LirW

Some houses that were built in the 2000s have pretty lousy plumbing especially in the bathrooms, but it depends on where you are and when it was built. Plumbing would be one of the things where I'd always be wary because fixing any plumbing work is really expensive.