Finding a job at age 54 with a standard reference

rawn

Hi all.

I'm looking for advice regarding my mother. She has worked in the health care industry for 17 years, and was recently forced to resign based on a false accusation made by a co-worker regarding a client. After them dragging out the investigation for nearly a year, they only gave her 10 minutes to decide whether to be fired with an extra month's pay on top of what she was owed but no reference , or voluntarily resign without the extra month pay but with a standard reference. She chose the reference. They are obliged to tell any employer that calls for a reference about the incident if she applies for another job in that field. Otherwise they will give a standard reference exactly the same as the written one she was given which says "Mrs Rawn worked in X company in X role for X years". She is on JB for now but is at her wits end worrying about who will hire her! What can she do with pretty much nothing to show what she has been doing for 17 years, at her age and with declining health (arthritis in her spine and hip, among other issues! ) She would happily work in a shop but is worried, i mean, do the likes of Supervalu/Dunnes hire 54 year olds?! She has a meeting next week to help with a CV, if anyone has any advice whatsoever about what she should say to potential employers or where she should look we would be so grateful! She lives alone and needs to support herself. Her LL has signed her up for HAP and signed a year's fixed lease so she's ok there for the moment thank goodness.

partyguinness

Hold on this does not make sense.

You are essentially saying she was strong armed into accepting 2 options over 10 minutes. If the accusations were false she should have stood her ground.

1. What disciplinary process/internal discipline took place?
2. Is there a Union Rep?

There is clearly more to this so I am thinking Unfair Dismissal. Speak to a good employment lawyer.

rawn

partyguinness wrote: »

Hold on this does not make sense.

You are essentially saying she was strong armed into accepting 2 options over 10 minutes. If the accusations were false she should have stood her ground.

1. What disciplinary process/internal discipline took place?
2. Is there a Union Rep?

There is clearly more to this so I am thinking Unfair Dismissal. Speak to a good employment lawyer.

She had a union rep with her throughout the entire thing, he was the one who got the offer for the reference, as they weren't going to give any at all. It was investigated internally for almost a year, she was suspended with pay during this time. No one expected her to lose her job, in face no one thought she would be found guilty, we all thought she would be transferred or suspended without pay but that was not the case. She appealed it, they upheld the verdict, then when she went in for her punishment she was fired. She had previously planned to fight tooth and nail to have her name cleared above anything else, but she cannot do that now as she signed the form admitting her guilt (in order to get the reference). She cannot afford to pay for legal action. It's a mess.

The main thing now is finding her a job!

Slippin Jimmy

rawn wrote: »

Hi all.

I'm looking for advice regarding my mother. She has worked in the health care industry for 17 years, and was recently forced to resign based on a false accusation made by a co-worker regarding a client. After them dragging out the investigation for nearly a year, they only gave her 10 minutes to decide whether to be fired with an extra month's pay on top of what she was owed but no reference , or voluntarily resign without the extra month pay but with a standard reference. She chose the reference. They are obliged to tell any employer that calls for a reference about the incident if she applies for another job in that field. Otherwise they will give a standard reference exactly the same as the written one she was given which says "Mrs Rawn worked in X company in X role for X years". She is on JB for now but is at her wits end worrying about who will hire her! What can she do with pretty much nothing to show what she has been doing for 17 years, at her age and with declining health (arthritis in her spine and hip, among other issues! ) She would happily work in a shop but is worried, i mean, do the likes of Supervalu/Dunnes hire 54 year olds?! She has a meeting next week to help with a CV, if anyone has any advice whatsoever about what she should say to potential employers or where she should look we would be so grateful! She lives alone and needs to support herself. Her LL has signed her up for HAP and signed a year's fixed lease so she's ok there for the moment thank goodness.

Where is she based? Are her computer skills up to a basic level? There are plenty of call centres that are regularly looking for people of all ages.

rawn

Slippin Jimmy wrote: »

Where is she based? Are her computer skills up to a basic level? There are plenty of call centres that are regularly looking for people of all ages.

She can type very well but her computer skills are atrocious. She has done basic computer courses to no avail but that's not a bad idea, if she can put her mind to it!

She's based in D15.

She's most concerned at the moment with what to tell a potential employer in an interview regarding her previous 17 years and why the one paragraph reference, as I'm sure that's a massive red flag to any interviewer! Should she be fully honest or should she tell the truth but without the finer details?

Tenigate

She needs to get a personal reference ideally from her supervisor or a manager.
Also.. write an anonymous review on glassdoor.com , and a few negative reviews of the company or its products on google places, facebook, amazon, etc.

rawn

Tenigate wrote: »

She needs to get a personal reference ideally from her supervisor or a manager.
Also.. write an anonymous review on glassdoor.com , and a few negative reviews of the company or its products on google places, facebook, amazon, etc.

Unfortunately it's not a company, it's part of the HSE! She has no supervisor, just one manager (since transferred) and she is the one who gave her the one paragraph reference.

17 years of unblemished service to be forced to resign over an alleged misdemeanor, the only 3 witnesses gradually changed their stories from the truth to the complainants version of the story as the investigation went on! One of the ladies even said in her interview when asked why she was telling a different story from before (we have the transcripts) "I really need this job, I'm sorry" Madness. I feel like she's going to be on the dole now for the rest of her life with that reference!

dubrov

Just say that it was the previous company's policy to only give a standard reference for all employees. It happens a lot

Tenigate

It's a tough one. I was forced out of a job before. A few devious old-timers threw me under the bus when a new senior management team were brought in. They wanted me to quit after an orderly handover and I'd no choice, as i wanted a reference. They got a week and paid me 2 months.

I got a basic reference.. job title, from and to dates, which was company policy. My direct manager gave me a personal reference. It was enough to land me a new job (which i nearly lost by being hesitant about giving his contact details). In reality, i wanted to blow whistles to clients and cost the company a few hundred thousand, but given how long i was in the job even now i rely on his reference.

But your mother... If she needs to explain circumstances of being pushed out.. well it's worse than not having a reference at all. I'd suggest she should try to take the statement of employment, along with a personal reference. It should be enough to gain employment.

If she cannot get that much, well, if she has a case and the cash and evidence it's a job for her solicitor. Personally i didn't have the energy to take things to that level, and had the offer of a new job I didn't want to lose.

Without a reference though.. I'd have gotten very dirty. You can't be in an organisation so long without knowing all the dirty secrets of the company and its individuals.

rawn

Tenigate wrote: »

It's a tough one. I was forced out of a job before. A few devious old-timers threw me under the bus when a new senior management team were brought in. They wanted me to quit after an orderly handover and I'd no choice, as i wanted a reference. They got a week and paid me 2 months.

I got a basic reference.. job title, from and to dates, which was company policy. My direct manager gave me a personal reference. It was enough to land me a new job (which i nearly lost by being hesitant about giving his contact details). In reality, i wanted to blow whistles to clients and cost the company a few hundred thousand, but given how long i was in the job even now i rely on his reference.

But your mother... If she needs to explain circumstances of being pushed out.. well it's worse than not having a reference at all. I'd suggest she should try to take the statement of employment, along with a personal reference. It should be enough to gain employment.

If she cannot get that much, well, if she has a case and the cash and evidence it's a job for her solicitor. Personally i didn't have the energy to take things to that level, and had the offer of a new job I didn't want to lose.

Without a reference though.. I'd have gotten very dirty. You can't be in an organisation so long without knowing all the dirty secrets of the company and its individuals.

Thank you that's very helpful. Unfortunately there's no chance of a personal reference from anyone there, there's no one else that can give one.

She can't bring her complaint any further as she simply hasn't got the money. She lives alone. Her savings were being used to pay her rent and she has very little left. Believe me she has a LOT she could say about the workplace, especially the management! But she just wouldn't have the funds for it, whereas they would have the funding of the HSE against her. I suppose if she's applying for a basic shop job they might not pry too much past the basic reference. If she HAS to explain more about the incident itself - really the incident (if it were true) isn't horrendous, you would be surprised to think someone working there 17 years with a perfect record would be fired over it! The union rep thinks she's being made an example of - there are many similar cases on his plate arising from this particular branch of the HSE

Stheno

rawn wrote: »

Thank you that's very helpful. Unfortunately there's no chance of a personal reference from anyone there, there's no one else that can give one.

She can't bring her complaint any further as she simply hasn't got the money. She lives alone. Her savings were being used to pay her rent and she has very little left. Believe me she has a LOT she could say about the workplace, especially the management! But she just wouldn't have the funds for it, whereas they would have the funding of the HSE against her. I suppose if she's applying for a basic shop job they might not pry too much past the basic reference. If she HAS to explain more about the incident itself - really the incident (if it were true) isn't horrendous, you would be surprised to think someone working there 17 years with a perfect record would be fired over it! The union rep thinks she's being made an example of - there are many similar cases on his plate arising from this particular branch of the HSE

I'd be exhausting every appeal via unions and workplace relations

rawn

Stheno wrote: »

I'd be exhausting every appeal via unions and workplace relations

She can't, as she has signed a form admitting her guilt and no longer works for them, so no union I would be inclined to agree with you but at this stage I think she's just burnt out and worrying about the future!

Tenigate

As unapthetising as it sounds, id approach someone on a personal level and seek them to be a referee.. just a phonecall to say "i worked with them".. and damn, I don't want to be sexist i really don't.. but in that job i left the male manager said "sorry you're leaving under these circumstances but you can trust me to give you a positive personal reference".
A nutty female manager i had before in a role that lasted only 6 mths replied to my request by writing a letter on headed paper saying "i have not worked with tenifan long enough to form an opinion, however i can confirm...". Gotta wonder why some people are like that!

Diziet

You mother should be applying for jobs right now - is she? Worrying about the reference won't help - apply and see how she gets on.

rawn

Diziet wrote: »

You mother should be applying for jobs right now - is she? Worrying about the reference won't help - apply and see how she gets on.

She applied to two shop jobs so far. No response yet but it has only been a week.

GalwayGrrrrrl

rawn wrote: »

She applied to two shop jobs so far. No response yet but it has only been a week.

Two applications in one week isn't enough- she needs to be applying for more jobs than that in this economic climate.
She can't really change her situation now that she has signed for the standard reference. All she can do is put it behind her, get cracking on applications and hopefully someone will take a chance on her.

Grumpypants

Sorry to hear about your mum, i can only imagine how worried she is.

But it isn't all doom and gloom.

Has she looked at private home help. I know some of my frends' mums have started recently and love it. They pop to neighbours and help out with tidying up a bit of cooking and washing. But mainly it is company.

On the reference front. References don't need to be a direct manager. I've been a reference for ex team members going for jobs. I never managed them but was still able to talk about their work, atitude, work ethic. Etc.

I recently gave a reference for someone i was in college with.

Both job their jobs.

Have her think about everyone she worked with over the last 17 years. There has to be 3-4 that would be a reference. It would really help if they had climbed the ladder. Their workplace won't know.

Also i would say if she gets to an interview and they ask directly about it, be honest. Interviewers are human. If they hear how badly she was treated they might actually be more inclined to help.

She needs to upskill. And I don’t mean the sh**e courses offered by FAS. She needs take time out and decide what she’s interested in. Shop work is very hard for someone with arthritis. Was she a member of a Union? If so, they may be able to guide her. God knows they owe her if they allowed this happen to an innocent person.

nikkibikki

There are free legal aid clinics. www . flac . ie

Someone there might be able to advise on unfair dismissal.

Teyla Emmagan

What about "home help". My granny has this army of helpers who come in every day to wash her and take her to the loo and stuff. It wouldn't be the most glamorous job but it sounds like something your Mum could do in her sleep. And none of those ladies are younger than 50. Or private nursing homes. Again, not as easy as standing at a cash register but they would take her in a heartbeat. There are loads of nursing agencies, there must be agencies that deal with similar health sector roles. You should find one and get your mum signed up.

The reference won't be as big a issue as you think, don't worry about it. Once they meet your mother and see she is competent it will be fine. But a personal reference would definitely be a good thing to have, even from a buddy in the old job.

I think you should look into free legal aid though and follow it up at the same time. What happened to your mother sounds bananas.

Teyla Emmagan

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

What about "home help". My granny has this army of helpers who come in every day to wash her and take her to the loo and stuff. It wouldn't be the most glamorous job but it sounds like something your Mum could do in her sleep. And none of those ladies are younger than 50. Or private nursing homes. Again, not as easy as standing at a cash register but they would take her in a heartbeat. There are loads of nursing agencies, there must be agencies that deal with similar health sector roles. You should find one and get your mum signed up.

The reference won't be as big a issue as you think, don't worry about it. Once they meet your mother and see she is competent it will be fine. But a personal reference would definitely be a good thing to have, even from a buddy in the old job.

I think you should look into free legal aid though and follow it up at the same time. What happened to your mother sounds bananas.

They need Garda clearance and references. As well as reams of qualifications. Home help jobs aren’t that easy come by.

nikkibikki

nikkibikki wrote: »

There are free legal aid clinics. www . flac . ie

Someone there might be able to advise on unfair dismissal.

We only have OPs word that it was unfair dismissal.

amtc

B and Q, Woodies and Supervalu have specific policies about hiring older people. I know as my dad got a interview at 79!

Etc

Deleted User wrote: »

We only have OPs word that it was unfair dismissal.

Yes, and seeking free advise will confirm whether there is a case there or not.

A standard reference is good enough in today's climate. Not all employers are looking for a bells and whistles reference.

For my current job I underwent a background check which only required my current and previous companies confirming my dates of employment.

Etc

Etc wrote: »

Yes, and seeking free advise will confirm whether there is a case there or not.

A standard reference is good enough in today's climate. Not all employers are looking for a bells and whistles reference.

For my current job I underwent a background check which only required my current and previous companies confirming my dates of employment.

Working with vulnerable people is different. Would you like anyone walking in off the street without any background check looking after your Mum or Gran?

Etc

Deleted User wrote: »

Working with vulnerable people is different. Would you like anyone walking in off the street without any background check looking after your Mum or Gran?

We're talking about the person looking outside her current field and again, in a situation like you outline above a background check isn't confined to just a written / verbal reference, it's only part of it.

nikkibikki

Deleted User wrote:

We only have OPs word that it was unfair dismissal.

Hence my advice to seek qualified legal advice??

OP, could your mother volunteer in a charity shop maybe? She'd be getting retail experience plus have another reference option when she might need it.

Hotblack Desiato

rawn wrote: »

She can't, as she has signed a form admitting her guilt

She signed it under duress. She should go to the WRC.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

She signed it under duress. She should go to the WRC.

She had her Union Rep with her. She was suspended for a year on full pay. Then was the time to get legal help, not after accepting the findings.

rawn

Deleted User wrote:

She had her Union Rep with her. She was suspended for a year on full pay. Then was the time to get legal help, not after accepting the findings.

This is true, but no one expected her to be fired, precedence allowed us all to believe she would be suspended without pay or transferred to another centre, both of which she was going to fight tooth and nail against a she refused to admit to something she didn't do. They were taken by surprise when they fired her, the union rep did what he could but she was under pressure and knew she would need a reference. If she were to fight it now and it dragged on and on, or lost, she would be financially ruined.

Thanks all for the advice I'll read through it properly later and have a chat with my mam tomorrow.

beauf

I think you put too much faith in unions. They mainly look after their own interests. I expect the union rep got little support from the union itself.

I would go to the WRC you need to fight and get a proper reference.

Switching career or industry is very hard you are over qualified in one area and under qualified in another. Employers don't like that. Even without the problem of a reference.

There is a shortage of care assistants I thought.

Teyla Emmagan

Deleted User wrote:

They need Garda clearance and references. As well as reams of qualifications. Home help jobs aren’t that easy come by.

But a Garda reference is not a big deal. And the OP's mum has been working in the HSE somewhere for years, she possibly has the qualifications. Or could avail of free training. The government will do anything to keep you out of a state run nursing home.

Hotblack Desiato

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She had her Union Rep with her. She was suspended for a year on full pay. Then was the time to get legal help, not after accepting the findings.

How can someone take a case for unfair dismissal before they've been dismissed?

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How can someone take a case for unfair dismissal before they've been dismissed?

Legal advice when she felt she was being done wrong. I didn’t mention unfair dismissal.

partyguinness

TBH it sounds like she was guilty of gross misconduct but be that as it may that is not the OP's issue.

I am employer and if I received a standard reference it wouldn't necessarily put me off but I would ask at the interview as to why the person left.