Employer and holidays (can they do this)

Buckfast W

Hello I just need some advice and want to see where I stand.

I work in an English Language school in Ireland. At the moment I can take paid holidays providing there is availability. I would usually take maybe 2 or 3 days say a friday monday and tuesday so I can have a long weekend away.

From next year my employer is trying to change this. The school closes for 4 weeks throughout the year for no particular reason. During this time I'm deemed to be unemployed and am able to put a claim in to the social welfare and receive a limited payment. My employer now wants to give us these weeks off as holidays and pay us for them.

So I'm wondering can they do this (force us to take these days as holidays), they choose to close the school and make us unemployed, but now wish to close the school for no real reason and pay us our holiday pay, however this would mean that I'd be missing out on any social welfare payments in the future.

Thanks.

silent_spark

Short answer - yes, they can.

Buckfast W

silent_spark wrote: »

Short answer - yes, they can.

Cheers, a kick in the balls but at least I know

jimmycrackcorm

You should check your contract, it is normal to state that days are at the discretion of your employer.

Buckfast W

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You should check your contract, it is normal to state that days are at the discretion of your employer.

Will go digging around and have a look for it (signed it years ago so can't really remember). I was just wondering what the situation was regarding the weeks that they want us to take off because as I said the school closes and makes us unemployed.

irelandrover

silent_spark wrote: »

Short answer - yes, they can.

I'm not sure, surely if the company are closed and you claim social then you are on 11 month contracts.
They are basically proposing now to move you to 12 month contracts and give you holiday pay during this time.

the_pen_turner

surely the extra weeks wages and contributions etc is worth more to you that social welfare

davo10

irelandrover wrote: »

I'm not sure, surely if the company are closed and you claim social then you are on 11 month contracts.
They are basically proposing now to move you to 12 month contracts and give you holiday pay during this time.

An 11 month contract would be a fixed term contract, if the op is paid all year, then it would be a contract of indefinite duration i.e. full time employed (there would be no benefit to employer to have a 12 month fixed term over an 11 month fixed term) Full time employment gives you more rights.

Buckfast W

the_pen_turner wrote:

surely the extra weeks wages and contributions etc is worth more to you that social welfare

The way it's working at the moment is we get our 21 days holidays but on top of that the school is closed for 4 weeks but we're not paid, we're technically unemployed so we're able to go on the social welfare but even then it only kicks in after 3 days or something.

GM228

OP, have you had a "rolled up holiday pay" type agreement up to now?

Buckfast W

GM228 wrote:

OP, have you had a "rolled up holiday pay" type agreement up to now?

We have it worked on a system that if you build up your hours and you take time off you get paid. That's what it's been like in every other job I've had.

the_pen_turner

Buckfast W wrote: »

The way it's working at the moment is we get our 21 days holidays but on top of that the school is closed for 4 weeks but we're not paid, we're technically unemployed so we're able to go on the social welfare but even then it only kicks in after 3 days or something.

is your yearly wages going up by 4 weeks pay. it should do
is that extra 4 weeks pay more or less than what you would get from the social welfare

Tigger

Buckfast W wrote: »

The way it's working at the moment is we get our 21 days holidays but on top of that the school is closed for 4 weeks but we're not paid, we're technically unemployed so we're able to go on the social welfare but even then it only kicks in after 3 days or something.

this is really dodgy
you arent unemployed if you aent looking for a job

Buckfast W

Tigger wrote:

this is really dodgy you arent unemployed if you aent looking for a job

But I am unemployed, the school closes and I don't get paid, it's not practical to look for a job for a working week only to leave again.

Buckfast W

the_pen_turner wrote:

is your yearly wages going up by 4 weeks pay. it should do is that extra 4 weeks pay more or less than what you would get from the social welfare

The 4 weeks would definitely be more money, we don't have a problem with taking the normal 21 days off like anyone else and we'd rather that the school didn't close for an additional 4 weeks. The problem is going to arise for us taking holidays in blocks, in one instance there's a 4 month block where we'd be expected to take no days off apart from our usual Saturday or Sunday, so if I had a wedding to go to or a graduation or something it's tough luck.

GM228

Tigger wrote: »

this is really dodgy
you arent unemployed if you aent looking for a job

The requirement to be looking for a job is not absolute to qualify for SW payments.

It is subject to (amongst other things) your normal occupation.

GM228

Buckfast W wrote: »

So I'm wondering can they do this (force us to take these days as holidays), they choose to close the school and make us unemployed, but now wish to close the school for no real reason and pay us our holiday pay, however this would mean that I'd be missing out on any social welfare payments in the future.

To answer your initial query, yes an employer can force you to take leave at any time (once they give at least one months notice).

However your employment contract is also relevant, in other words does it have any specifics such as working 11 months only etc, or taking the 4 weeks as unpaid leave etc.

I'm also curious about how leave is currently paid to you, i.e is it specifically on a paid per leave day basis (meaning no loss of pay when on leave) or is it a pre-paid basis (meaning spread over the working year and subsequently when on leave your wages are reduced accordingly - this is what is known as "rolled up holiday pay").

The latter was common for those working in the education sector and has been changing over the 2015/2016 and 2016/2017 education terms for legal reasons, those affected must now take their leave over holiday periods (Christmas, Easter, summer etc) even though they are off those times anyway.

the_pen_turner

Buckfast W wrote: »

The 4 weeks would definitely be more money, we don't have a problem with taking the normal 21 days off like anyone else and we'd rather that the school didn't close for an additional 4 weeks. The problem is going to arise for us taking holidays in blocks, in one instance there's a 4 month block where we'd be expected to take no days off apart from our usual Saturday or Sunday, so if I had a wedding to go to or a graduation or something it's tough luck.

its a nightmare that way.
I have a friend like this,. he has a calendar printed off handed to him every year with his day off on it. there is no leeway its like it or lump it

Buckfast W

GM228 wrote:

To answer your initial query, yes an employer can force you to take leave at any time (once they give at least one months notice).

GM228 wrote:

However your employment contract is also relevant, in other words does it have any specifics such as working 11 months only etc, or taking the 4 weeks as unpaid leave etc.

GM228 wrote:

I'm also curious about how leave is currently paid to you, i.e is it specifically on a paid per leave day basis (meaning no loss of pay when on leave) or is it a pre-paid basis (meaning spread over the working year and subsequently when on leave your wages are reduced accordingly - this is what is known as "rolled up holiday pay").

GM228 wrote:

The latter was common for those working in the education sector and has been changing over the 2015/2016 and 2016/2017 education terms for legal reasons, those affected must now take their leave over holiday periods (Christmas, Easter, summer etc) even though they are off those times anyway.

The contract states that we are given the usual 21 days off (paid) and that we may be required to change our working hours to suit the school if needed but nowhere does it say anything about 4 additional weeks unpaid.

Tigger

Buckfast W wrote: »

But I am unemployed, the school closes and I don't get paid, it's not practical to look for a job for a working week only to leave again.

you're not you're on holidays

Buckfast W

Tigger wrote:

you're not you're on holidays

Really, I'm on 4 weeks unpaid holidays yeah!

GM228

Tigger wrote: »

Buckfast W wrote: »

But I am unemployed, the school closes and I don't get paid, it's not practical to look for a job for a working week only to leave again.

you're not you're on holidays

Unemployment is simply a period of interruption of remunerative employment.

If your employer does not pay you for any 4 days (whether consecutive or not) of 7 consecutive days of a week you are legally deemed to be unemployed. Any two such weeks in a 52 week period is considered to be continuous unemployment.

4 such weeks and the OP is most definately unemployed.