Planning permission Question

from_atozinc

Hi,

this is probably an age old question.
My father is a farmer and will give me a site to build a house.
Would plan on something about 2,200 square feet. Road has water supply, electricity, eircom etc i.e its not in the middle of nowhere.

High level, how much would it cost to get planning permission?

or another way, if I went through the whole planning process,
and the planning permission was not granted, how much would I be down? ball park and a rough break down of the fees

Metric Tensor

Somewhere between €2500 and €5000*

*Assuming a relatively simple house design, not in any specially designated areas, that you are an easy client to deal with and that the council don't spring any surprise requests at further information stage.

Cost will be the same regardless of whether permission is granted or refused.

from_atozinc

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Somewhere between €2500 and €5000*

*Assuming a relatively simple house design, not in any specially designated areas, that you are an easy client to deal with and that the council don't spring any surprise requests at further information stage.

Cost will be the same regardless of whether permission is granted or refused.

Thank you. At least gives me a ball park figure.

Is there any such thing as getting planning semi approved without having to spend over 2500 euro, like in case planning wasn’t granted, at the end of the day, its essentially 2500 euro or more down the drain. (And 2500 is a lot of money to me)

Essentially, like a test the water high level planning scenario without having to possibly waste thousands.

Metric Tensor

It's called an "Outline Planning" but it will cost you only a little less than a full planning permission because it is mostly the same just without detailed house plans.

Not only that but you would then have a to double spend by getting a a full planning permission in future. So you could/would end up spending a lot more in the long run.

Outline planning permission is really for people who want to sell a site "with planning"

Markcheese

A lot of county council planning offices will do a preplanning meeting, where you'll go in with an outline of what you want and they tell you what they'd like or not like on that site...

dellas1979

Hi there,

Well, to submit a planning application you really need the following:

- Piece of land (you dont need it transferred into your name to make an application. Once planning is gotton, you could then transfer. Please note legal fees apply and stamp duty (father to child).

- An architect or engineer to design the house. Engineers are cheaper, but dont expect an architectually designed house from an engineer. Bog standard house fair enough (not to put all engineers in this bucket, but they are not trained the same as an architect).

- A percolation test on the land. You need to employ an engineer for this. And someone to dig holes. Engineer percolation report can be ball park e400-6/700, depending on what else additional you may need the engineer to report on (i.e., if site is on an incline, how to deal with that).

Am at planning stage/further information. Ive used an architect. Done percolation. And so far has cost me about 8k. Keep in mind, I employed archi to make the application for me/coordinate everything/deal with planning office and councillors.

Yes. Money matters. But if you are very very tight, you are going to have to scrimp. And am not sure how well that would stand to your house in years to come.

Things cost what they cost unfortunately. Especially at the start (architects/engineers/percolation/legal fees) and at the end (hooking up water/electricity etc can be thousands...even if there is a line right outside the gate).

Where you could compromise is when actually building.....self builds can be cheaper. But you (IMO) need to have your head screwed on to manage to build project.

Also, to finish....one big thing with councils are sight lines. If you are on an 80km road, you must have 70 meters to left and 70 meters to right, 2.4 meters back from the road (to see traffic). Councils are sticklers for things like this.

One last thing (promise!) 2,200 square feet is actually quite a large house....are you sure you need a house this big (if money is going to be tight?). I down sized mine to fit my budget. As I want to wag the tail so to speak, not the tail (bank/mortage) wagging it for me...You could design something smaller, with a view to extend in future if needed.

from_atozinc

Metric Tensor wrote: »

It's called an "Outline Planning" but it will cost you only a little less than a full planning permission because it is mostly the same just without detailed house plans.

Not only that but you would then have a to double spend by getting a a full planning permission in future. So you could/would end up spending a lot more in the long run.

Outline planning permission is really for people who want to sell a site "with planning"

Thanks, so essentially, to get any form of planning will cost a minimum of 2500 Euro.

from_atozinc

dellas1979 wrote: »

Hi there,

Well, to submit a planning application you really need the following:

- Piece of land (you dont need it transferred into your name to make an application. Once planning is gotton, you could then transfer. Please note legal fees apply and stamp duty (father to child).

- An architect or engineer to design the house. Engineers are cheaper, but dont expect an architectually designed house from an engineer. Bog standard house fair enough (not to put all engineers in this bucket, but they are not trained the same as an architect).

- A percolation test on the land. You need to employ an engineer for this. And someone to dig holes. Engineer percolation report can be ball park e400-6/700, depending on what else additional you may need the engineer to report on (i.e., if site is on an incline, how to deal with that).

Am at planning stage/further information. Ive used an architect. Done percolation. And so far has cost me about 8k. Keep in mind, I employed archi to make the application for me/coordinate everything/deal with planning office and councillors.

Yes. Money matters. But if you are very very tight, you are going to have to scrimp. And am not sure how well that would stand to your house in years to come.

Things cost what they cost unfortunately. Especially at the start (architects/engineers/percolation/legal fees) and at the end (hooking up water/electricity etc can be thousands...even if there is a line right outside the gate).

Where you could compromise is when actually building.....self builds can be cheaper. But you (IMO) need to have your head screwed on to manage to build project.

Also, to finish....one big thing with councils are sight lines. If you are on an 80km road, you must have 70 meters to left and 70 meters to right, 2.4 meters back from the road (to see traffic). Councils are sticklers for things like this.

One last thing (promise!) 2,200 square feet is actually quite a large house....are you sure you need a house this big (if money is going to be tight?). I down sized mine to fit my budget. As I want to wag the tail so to speak, not the tail (bank/mortage) wagging it for me...You could design something smaller, with a view to extend in future if needed.

Thank you, great reply.

Could you give a rough breakdown of costs?

Legal fees/solicitor
Stamp duty of site from father to child.
Architect/engineer
Percolation engineer
Digging costs
County council fees
Newspaper fees
Any other fees?

Metric Tensor

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks, so essentially, to get any form of planning will cost a minimum of 2500 Euro.

I honestly haven't done an outline planning for a single house in many years. I've no idea what the going rate is these days - I suspect like everything else it involves more work from the consultant than in times past.

If you are that stuck for money I'm not sure you are going down the right road because getting a mortgage will be very challenging.

Why do you need/want planning permission now?

from_atozinc

Metric Tensor wrote: »

I honestly haven't done an outline planning for a single house in many years. I've no idea what the going rate is these days - I suspect like everything else it involves more work from the consultant than in times past.

If you are that stuck for money I'm not sure you are going down the right road because getting a mortgage will be very challenging.

Why do you need/want planning permission now?

my reasoning is that we have land but are not in a a position to build yet, may start building in 2-3 years.

But just wanted to do the planning anyway - just to have that out of the way and done and not being held up with it again, if we do proceed.

So was wondering how much the planning process would cost me - that is all.

Metric Tensor

A planning permission only lasts 5 years ... I don't think there's any point in getting one now unless you have a specific need.

When it comes to actually needing a house you will find that the cost of the planning permission is a tiny issue compared to getting the house and site design as you want it. No point doing a half arsed thing now and having to go back and do it correctly in future.

Do you have or plan to have a significant other? They will want (would like) input too!!!

dellas1979

Legal fees/solicitor: Am going through this right now. So, I've no specific details of this (yet). I've budgeted a couple of thousand. If its less, excellent. If its more, well, will still have to be paid.

Stamp duty of site from father to child: Current stamp duty is 2% of the value of the site. For 1/2 acre. 1 acre etc will cost more.

You dont need to do a land transfer to make a planning application. You just need a letter from landowner (your dad) to say its ok with him.

Architect/engineer: I used an archi. e7500 for inital design, design, design for planning application, and to make planning application/coordinate everything for me. Listen, depending on what you think about this, you could get an engineer to design and draw up plans for half the cost. I chose an archi, as design is important to me. And I felt it was better to get it right at the start.

Percolation engineer: e600
Digging costs: e300

County council fees: I am in Tipp and they are currently e31 per square meter (of house). You need to check this with your own council. All councils have different prices. You only pay this when you intend to build.

Newspaper fees: e50-70.

You need 6 copies of everything. Every bit of paper you submit.

Any other fees: Up to planning, not that I can think of. Some of the above (land transfer, council fees) you dont need to pay at an application.

The real cost is designing something. And percolation. Time and patience too.

PS: Are you prepared to commit money and time for something (I get an impression) youre not sure of doing? If you've a few ks to see what happens, go for it. If not, maybe wait until you are 100%?

from_atozinc

dellas1979 wrote: »

Legal fees/solicitor: Am going through this right now. So, I've no specific details of this (yet). I've budgeted a couple of thousand. If its less, excellent. If its more, well, will still have to be paid.

Stamp duty of site from father to child: Current stamp duty is 2% of the value of the site. For 1/2 acre. 1 acre etc will cost more.

You dont need to do a land transfer to make a planning application. You just need a letter from landowner (your dad) to say its ok with him.

Architect/engineer: I used an archi. e7500 for inital design, design, design for planning application, and to make planning application/coordinate everything for me. Listen, depending on what you think about this, you could get an engineer to design and draw up plans for half the cost. I chose an archi, as design is important to me. And I felt it was better to get it right at the start.

Percolation engineer: e600
Digging costs: e300

County council fees: I am in Tipp and they are currently e31 per square meter (of house). You need to check this with your own council. All councils have different prices. You only pay this when you intend to build.

Newspaper fees: e50-70.

You need 6 copies of everything. Every bit of paper you submit.

Any other fees: Up to planning, not that I can think of. Some of the above (land transfer, council fees) you dont need to pay at an application.

The real cost is designing something. And percolation. Time and patience too.

PS: Are you prepared to commit money and time for something (I get an impression) youre not sure of doing? If you've a few ks to see what happens, go for it. If not, maybe wait until you are 100%?

Thanks again for reply.
As for your last question, this is the decision I have to make.
Which is why im asking all these questions so I dont go in blind, as bad and all as I am, im sure there are others that just go in and have no idea about all these costs.

Just one thing, in regard to this: "County council fees: I am in Tipp and they are currently e31 per square meter (of house). You need to check this with your own council. All councils have different prices. You only pay this when you intend to build."

are you saying 31 euro per square meter? so, if you build a 150 square meter house, you have to pay the council 4650 euro.

dogg_r_69

Council charges do vary I paid 3350 for 2400sqf house in West Cork.

van_beano

I paid over €1800 in council contributions for a 64m2 extension 2 years ago in South Dublin, the first 40m2 were exempt, the remainder was charged at €85/m2. They do allow payment over 12 months though if asked nicely.

Payment is required as one of the conditions of the planning permission.

dellas1979

Yep. e31 x 150.

Per above, this varies council to council. So, you can ring your co co and ask them what it is.

I've heard in more urbanised areas it can go up to e80-e90 per square meter.

And let's be honest also (when trying to make your decision), if you want a 2,200 sq feet house, you are simply going to have to pay to build that size.

Get smart/efficient with your design (if money is a worry). I've a 3 bed + walk in wardrobe/3 bathroom house designed. With a kitchen. Sitting room. Utility and study for just over 100 square meters. Also, it costs less (for overall build) to build a two storey (less roof and less foundation than a bungalow). Also more economical to heat/fuel and clean. I asked for the house to be adaptable easy, in the case I ever do want to put on an extention.

I am not sure what is important to you in designing a house. Or what your needs are. But you should make a list. If massive space is important to you, then you have to be prepared to pay for this. Might not be what you want to hear...I had trouble getting my head around it too "It costs WHATTTT!!!!???".

Am still not sure what the rush is for you or if you are trying to be super organised. But, my advice would be, decide a) if you want to build. b) see if its possible (which is what youre doing). c) If yes, start design process. Otherwise, yep I just dont see it viable that you would put 000s into something youre not sure about. The land (I assume) will still be there in 1/2 years!