I'm thinking of getting a motorbike. What's involved? Cost?

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Please forgive me if the question offends the motorbiking community. I'm already an experienced car driver. Does that mean half the battle is already fought with regard to being prepared for the test in terms of rules of the road?

Is handling a motorbike similar to handling a bicycle, just at much higher speed with a much heavier equipment?

Is it worthwhile doing it in a manual bike or are most automatic nowadays? I know the clutch is at the left handlebar and the gears are at the left foot, bt how many gears are there? Just a general question.

What is it like in Autumn? Is it dangerous with fallen leaves?

Are on-road driving lessons mandatory or is it just the IBT that's mandatory?

Can you do the IBT without the learner permit? technically you should be able to because it's done off-road (I got off-road car lessons back in 2006 before I had my learner permit with Rosemary Smith in Kildare).

Because I'm 26, does that mean I can go straight to category A?

Do you recommend any schools around?

khaldrogo

Not sure if you're trolling or not?

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote:

Please forgive me if the question offends the motorbiking community. I'm already an experienced car driver. Does that mean half the battle is already fought with regard to being prepared for the test?

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote:

Is handling a motorbike similar to handling a bicycle, just at much higher speed with a much heavier equipment?

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote:

Is it worthwhile doing it in a manual bike or are most automatic nowadays? I know the clutch is at the left handlebar and the gears are at the left foot, bt how many gears are there? Just a general question.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

khaldrogo wrote: »

Not sure if you're trolling or not?

Genuinely not. I'm just interested in getting a motorbike

Tigger

what type donyou like
enduro moto sports sports tourer tourer cruiser naked ?

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Tigger wrote: »

what type donyou like
enduro moto sports sports tourer tourer cruiser naked ?

?

I like Suzuki GZ. A co worker of mine drives one.

khaldrogo

Riding a motorcycle is absolutely different to driving a car. If all you have is car and bicycle experience then you need to start at the beginning.

Getting a motorcycle licence these days is time consuming and relatively expensive.

You must first do a theory test, then your IBT, then your test and then you're restricted for 2 yrs if you're under a certain age.

If you are seriously suggesting that because you know the clutch is on the left and you've driven cars and cycled bikes you should be legally and or practically able to forgoe formal training be let loose on a bike then I suggest you rethink the whole bike thing.

I have been riding bikes for 20 years. I love it but even fecker out there in a car/truck/bus is trying to kill you.

You NEED to do the full training and start on small bikes and work your way up.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

khaldrogo wrote:

I love it but even fecker out there in a car/truck/bus is trying to kill you.

As a car driver I take exception to that statement.

khaldrogo

Erica Few Physician wrote:

As a car driver I take exception to that statement.

Subconsciously......

Tigger

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

?

I like Suzuki GZ. A co worker of mine drives one.

thayts a cruiser style

fleet

Rules of the Road: yeah, realistically this WILL help a lot. Learning to ride a motorcycle will take a lot of concentration, so not having to think about this helps a lot. I remember profuse sweating learning to drive a car, the motorcycle a few years later was much less stress.

Clutch and gearing: again, biting point, clutch control, engine revs and note etc. All skills learnt in a car will stand to you.

Bicycle physics: single track, rear heavy, counter steering, independent brakes with front breaking dominant, leaning to corner... All the same. Motorcycle is just heavier and faster, therefore requires more forward planning and counter steering.

Ignore the folks here who say your existing skills won't help, they will, enormously.

You will screw up a few times though, so be prepared to pick the motorcycle up more than a few times... with new scratches and dents each time... on both of you.

fleet

Costs:

Decent helmet - 200ish - check out the UK government SHARP ratings, don't buy the Aldi/Lidl one. I did try a Shoei once, it was very comfortable, but not 500 comfortable given it tested the same as my 200 euro one. Get one with an integrated flip up sun visor, we have a lot of low sun in Ireland.

Jacket, Gloves and Pants - 250 - Aldi and Lidl do them twice yearly, the pants help confidence cornering in the wet. I forget, but one supermarket offers much better than the other (I have both). Head out to Cotters or other stores if you need them now or are anything but standard sizing.

Bike - 500 to whatever - a decent bike with under 30,000km and ABS will run you 5,000.

Insurance and Tax - 300 and 88 - insurance depends on too many factors, check Liberty for an online quote then ring the others with it.

fleet

Other costs:

350 euro on tires every 20,000km or so...

200 on chain and sprockets every 30,000km or so

Brake pads, rotors, oil changes, fluids.... I spend a lot of time and money on routine maintenance.

Get a good tool kit with sockets, wrenches, drivers, and a torque wrench.

I commute 15,000km a year.

I reckon it costs: 500 in fuel, 500 in routine maintenance and 1000 in depreciation per year on my beat up 250cc.

Throw in insurance and clothing and you're looking at about 2,500 per annum total annual cost for the pleasure owning and running a motorcycle for commuting. That might drop to 1,500 per annum for a weekend warrior, but no less than that. Tack on an additional 500 if you don't do the repairs yourself.

khaldrogo

fleet wrote:

Ignore the folks here who say your existing skills won't help, they will, enormously.

If he attempts to ride a bike like he would drive a car then no, it won't.

Lumen

In my experience (urban) bicycle skills are useless for balance and control of a motorbike but excellent for anticipation and progressing safely through traffic. They won't stop you toppling over but they may stop you from dying.

Driving skills are useful for ROTR and understanding the mindset of drivers but not much else.

antiskeptic

The stats indicate your being 35 times more likely to die and 16 times more likely to be seriously injured in an accident compared to a car. You could add a multiple of the latter to the chances of your sustaining a life altering injury - not serious but something which inhibits and dogs you for the rest of your life. Those figures are averages. You can crank them upwards significantly when the population considered involves the learning years / commuting riding / wet/frosty condition. In considering biking, a sober appreciation of the risk league you are planning on stepping into needs to be understood. This needn't stop you biking, but it might inform the approach you take when entering it. Training and practicing techniques, quality of gear, starting out in optimum conditions (dry weather, daylight, quiet routes), good quality tyres.

With 25 all year round biking to protect me, the impending arrival of my son made it a no brainer: if I wanted to be around for him, and run around with him then biking had to go. The risk, even though far, far less than those you'd be facing, weren't possible to run.

No doubt posts will follow decrying what I say. The reality is the reality however. And something that ought be faced head on.

Lumen

antiskeptic wrote: »

The stats indicate your being 35 times more likely to die and 16 times more likely to be seriously injured in an accident compared to a car.

It's actually worse than that, per mile travelled. UK 2014 stats:

"The fatality rate for motorcycle riders was 122 deaths per billion miles in 2014. This compares to a fatality rate of 1.8 deaths per billion miles for car drivers."

Source: http://www.roadsafetyobservatory.com/Review/10088

However, I travel about 6,000 miles a year. For a cohort of 68 people doing that, one of them will die in a 20 year window (20 years is probably the amount of time that my kids lives would be materially affected by my death).

Is a 1/68 chance of death over 20 years bad? I dunno. Normal death rate for a person through ages 30-50 is about 1/36. So I'm maybe adding 50% to that normal risk.

Do you do the same risk assessment every time you open a beer or a bottle of wine, or eat some grilled meat, or a slice of toast, or a bacon sandwich? All of those things are known to increase your risk of premature death.

Reindeer

He was quoting the American statistics. Depending on the year, the stats vary between 29 to 37X more likely for fatality. US traffic deaths do not include off-road motorcycle fatalities(which is roughly 9-10% of all fatalities in any given year). Statistics are statistics, though. Good luck sifting through it all. All I would say is, it's defintiely more dangerous in my personal experience, and when you hit things in a bike - it does a lot more damage to you than when you plough in to something in a Hilux. Be vigilant, be careful, do not take anything for granted when you are riding.


The breakdown in deaths by type of bike in 2013 is as follows: Cruiser 1,281, Touring 578, Sport-touring 22, Sport 269, Supersport 945, off-road 42, other or unknown 889.[4] Breakdown for 2013 by engine size is 1,951 for under 1000 CC, 692 for 1000 to 1400, and 1,276 for over 1400 (approximately).[4] 1,832 were single-vehicle crashes and 2,549 were multi-vehicle crashes.[4]

So, basically, nearly 14% of all traffic fatalities in the US for 2013 were motorcycles. Motorcycles make up 2% of the registered vehicle population stateside.

Lumen wrote: »

It's actually worse than that, per mile travelled. UK 2014 stats:

"The fatality rate for motorcycle riders was 122 deaths per billion miles in 2014. This compares to a fatality rate of 1.8 deaths per billion miles for car drivers."

Source: http://www.roadsafetyobservatory.com/Review/10088

However, I travel about 6,000 miles a year. For a cohort of 68 people doing that, one of them will die in a 20 year window (20 years is probably the amount of time that my kids lives would be materially affected by my death).

Is a 1/68 chance of death over 20 years bad? I dunno. Normal death rate for a person through ages 30-50 is about 1/36. So I'm maybe adding 50% to that normal risk.

Do you do the same risk assessment every time you open a beer or a bottle of wine, or eat some grilled meat, or a slice of toast, or a bacon sandwich? All of those things are known to increase your risk of premature death.

Pugzilla

We're all going to die, the end result is the same: eternal oblivion.
Whether I die asleep in bed or in a violent motorbike crash, it's all the same to me.

khaldrogo

antiskeptic wrote:

No doubt posts will follow decrying what I say. The reality is the reality however. And something that ought be faced head on.

Is it like walking sentry duty in 'Nam?

antiskeptic

Lumen wrote: »

However, I travel about 6,000 miles a year. For a cohort of 68 people doing that, one of them will die in a 20 year window (20 years is probably the amount of time that my kids lives would be materially affected by my death).

Supposing for a second you were to die in year one, the amount of time your kids would be affected by your death (materially, emotionally, psychologically) is about the same length of time as they have yet to live

Is a 1/68 chance of death over 20 years bad? I dunno. Normal death rate for a person through ages 30-50 is about 1/36. So I'm maybe adding 50% to that normal risk.

Wouldn't it be a doubling of your risk? That is, a 100% increase in risk?

Then there's the chances of serious injury or life altering injury. As recent events in Las Vegas demonstrate, your into multiples for injuries less than death

Do you do the same risk assessment every time you open a beer or a bottle of wine, or eat some grilled meat, or a slice of toast, or a bacon sandwich? All of those things are known to increase your risk of premature death.

I'd imagine eating toast, though containing an element of risk, don't register on the horizon statistically. It's hard to argue that some activities ought cause more pause for some sober assessment than others.

antiskeptic

khaldrogo wrote: »

Is it like walking sentry duty in 'Nam?

Probably not far off.

When faced with someone entering motorcycling who is drawn by images of wind in your hair, it's good to have some kind of counterpoint to work from.

Smoking isn't quite Marlboro Man territory it's adverstised to be, is it.

The_Chap

antiskeptic wrote: »

Probably not far off.

When faced with someone entering motorcycling who is drawn by images of wind in your hair, it's good to have some kind of counterpoint to work from.

Smoking isn't quite Marlboro Man territory it's adverstised to be, is it.

I suppose you also give your family the counterpoint that instead of flying to that sun kissed beach holiday you could be screaming as you plummet into a mountain?

(Insert winky or rolling eye emoticon here where applicable)

:-)

rustynutz

Costs of owning a motorbike (in my experience anyway)
Training
Bike gear
First bike
Good weather bike gear
Nicer bike gear
Big supermoto (while keeping the first bike which is a sportsbike, got to have a bike for all occasions)
First track day
Trackbike
Serious of trackdays
Annual trip to spain for three day track day
Isle of man TT trip every second year
Performance upgrades to make trackbike faster
Training to make me faster
Motocross bike
Motocross gear
Service costs
Tax and insurance on both road bikes
More trackdays
Track tyres
Broke an ankle and a hand over 20 years of riding
And it goes on and on and on......

I purposely haven't put any money against all these items as it would probably depress me to think how much I've spent, if I had my time back again would I have got into bikes? Hell yes, what else would I have spent my time and money on!

CJhaughey

The best quote I saw regarding bikes:

Motorcycling is not, of itself, inherently dangerous. It is, however, extremely unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence, or stupidity.

Cian_ok

1,832 were single-vehicle crashes and 2,549 were multi-vehicle crashes.

So, basically, nearly 14% of all traffic fatalities in the US for 2013 were motorcycles. Motorcycles make up 2% of the registered vehicle population stateside.

42% of bike fatalities were single-vehicle crashes. That's sobering if you consider these were (mostly) the rider's fault. Um, perhaps fault isn't the right word. But under the control of the rider.

Hotblack Desiato

antiskeptic wrote: »

.

No need for anti-bike rants in a thread started by a beginner. They are an adult and live in a society with an extremely anti-motorcycling attitude. They'll have heard it all before and so have we.

antiskeptic

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

No need for anti-bike rants in a thread started by a beginner. They are an adult and live in a society with an extremely anti-motorcycling attitude. They'll have heard it all before and so have we.

It's not at all an anti-bike rant. Rather, it's an attempt at adding to the info so that a person, adult and all, can make an informed decision on whether to enter that world or not.

You would prefer they not be exposed to an aspect of biking's reality?

antiskeptic

CJhaughey wrote: »

The best quote I saw regarding bikes:

Motorcycling is not, of itself, inherently dangerous. It is, however, extremely unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence, or stupidity.

And there ain't nothing more ignorant and incompetent than a learner biker. Probably.

Pugzilla

Safe to say that OP won't be getting a bike after reading this thread....

Sonics2k

antiskeptic wrote: »

And there ain't nothing more ignorant and incompetent than a learner biker. Probably.

I'd actually say those beyond learner are the most ignorant. A learner will typically aim to be a lot more cautious, hold back on filtering or going the speed limit.

A more experienced ride (usually on a racing bike) will tend to be a bit more arrogant. On Thursday morning in Cork I saw a lad on the road from Ballincollig to Cork driving between cars on the bends, each car was probably going about 110Km/h and he was just zipping between them.

Ignorance and arrogance are certainly the big killers for bikers, I think anyone would be mad to argue that. I had one bad accident when I was young and was far more cautious from then on, and over 10 years later I'm back driving my bike everyday and a hell of lot more wise for it.

antiskeptic

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'd actually say those beyond learner are the most ignorant. A learner will typically aim to be a lot more cautious, hold back on filtering or going the speed limit.

True. The problems occurs when a learner figures themselves to be, somewhat prematurely, not a learner anymore.

A more experienced ride (usually on a racing bike) will tend to be a bit more arrogant. On Thursday morning in Cork I saw a lad on the road from Ballincollig to Cork driving between cars on the bends, each car was probably going about 110Km/h and he was just zipping between them.

I assume you mean cars going in the same direction?

To be fair, there is a balance between risk and reward. You can reduce motorcycling down to being a car driver on two wheels for safety's sake - which misses the point of motorcycling.

I'd have no issue riding in such a nip and tuck fashion - having experience to balance the risk with the reward*. Biking is nothing if not pitting your skills against the constraints. And danger is one of biking's constraints. It's what makes it so exhilarating: 60mph on a long sweeping bend, clean wet road, warm back tyre squirming in the zone between stick and slip. I mean, it's great!!



The issue here is how one gets that experience. And the exponential level of risk that has to be run in getting it.

Ignorance and arrogance are certainly the big killers for bikers, I think anyone would be mad to argue that. I had one bad accident when I was young and was far more cautious from then on, and over 10 years later I'm back driving my bike everyday and a hell of lot more wise for it.

Same for me: close shaves force respect. You just have to be lucky enough for long enough only to be having close shaves.


* Until the impending arrival of a child placed an insurmountable weight on the other side of the scales.

Reindeer

It's like a lot of learning curves. You start out trying to be careful, with little skill, and hopefully nothing bad happens until you make the gradual step to skilled. Then you have to survive the time from between when being skilled and being wise come together.

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'd actually say those beyond learner are the most ignorant. A learner will typically aim to be a lot more cautious, hold back on filtering or going the speed limit.

A more experienced ride (usually on a racing bike) will tend to be a bit more arrogant. On Thursday morning in Cork I saw a lad on the road from Ballincollig to Cork driving between cars on the bends, each car was probably going about 110Km/h and he was just zipping between them.

Ignorance and arrogance are certainly the big killers for bikers, I think anyone would be mad to argue that. I had one bad accident when I was young and was far more cautious from then on, and over 10 years later I'm back driving my bike everyday and a hell of lot more wise for it.

Reindeer

The most expensive cost is likely 'addiction'.

rustynutz wrote: »

Costs of owning a motorbike (in my experience anyway)
Training
Bike gear
First bike
Good weather bike gear
Nicer bike gear
Big supermoto (while keeping the first bike which is a sportsbike, got to have a bike for all occasions)
First track day
Trackbike
Serious of trackdays
Annual trip to spain for three day track day
Isle of man TT trip every second year
Performance upgrades to make trackbike faster
Training to make me faster
Motocross bike
Motocross gear
Service costs
Tax and insurance on both road bikes
More trackdays
Track tyres
Broke an ankle and a hand over 20 years of riding
And it goes on and on and on......

I purposely haven't put any money against all these items as it would probably depress me to think how much I've spent, if I had my time back again would I have got into bikes? Hell yes, what else would I have spent my time and money on!

gonko

antiskeptic wrote: »

The stats indicate your being 35 times more likely to die and 16 times more likely to be seriously injured in an accident compared to a car. You could add a multiple of the latter to the chances of your sustaining a life altering injury - not serious but something which inhibits and dogs you for the rest of your life. Those figures are averages. You can crank them upwards significantly when the population considered involves the learning years / commuting riding / wet/frosty condition. In considering biking, a sober appreciation of the risk league you are planning on stepping into needs to be understood. This needn't stop you biking, but it might inform the approach you take when entering it. Training and practicing techniques, quality of gear, starting out in optimum conditions (dry weather, daylight, quiet routes), good quality tyres.

With 25 all year round biking to protect me, the impending arrival of my son made it a no brainer: if I wanted to be around for him, and run around with him then biking had to go. The risk, even though far, far less than those you'd be facing, weren't possible to run.

No doubt posts will follow decrying what I say. The reality is the reality however. And something that ought be faced head on.

That's pretty sad dude. Living in fear of what if. I've two girls and they know daddy has a bike, nice car, lots of active stuff....I even mountainbiked (gasp).... fun......that's me.
My 2 little girls I hope would follow in my footsteps, so far as doing what makes you happy. Life is too short and precious to be wasted on fear and worry.

I had an off last week. I'm already back on the machine. Live life man, have fun. Your kid will look up to that. My little one came home with two toy motorbikes today, saying look at my bike like daddy's. Priceless!

Be careful, not scared.

BTW I am only biking 6 months. Car driver 13/14 yrs

rustynutz

A lot of people don't seem to realise ....... Nobody is getting out alive. Your choices are: Never take risks, never put yourself in danger, don't pursue what you enjoy for fear of getting hurt, and live an unfulfilled life, and die in a nursing home full of regrets ( or get hit by a bus, cancer etc and die young anyway)

or.... Pursue the things your passionate about, if you want a motorbike? Buy one, don't ignore the risks, get training and use common sense and you should be ok. And you know what? You might still live into old age in a nursing home, but at least you will have some happy memories to keep you company.

Reindeer

The difference between facing reality, and not facing it, is NOT having fear. It's accepting the situation and dealing with it as best you can, instead of ignoring it and hoping for the best. Mitigating the odds of danger is a SMART thing to consider. That should be the takeaway. Not the fear of dying in bed.

If you've been biking 6 months, you have a LOT to learn, son. I had more than 6 months experience at the age of 11 - that was many decades ago. There are a lot of riders here with years and years of experience. I would do more listening than talking if I were you.

gonko wrote: »

That's pretty sad dude. Living in fear of what if. I've two girls and they know daddy has a bike, nice car, lots of active stuff....I even mountainbiked (gasp).... fun......that's me.
My 2 little girls I hope would follow in my footsteps, so far as doing what makes you happy. Life is too short and precious to be wasted on fear and worry.

I had an off last week. I'm already back on the machine. Live life man, have fun. Your kid will look up to that. My little one came home with two toy motorbikes today, saying look at my bike like daddy's. Priceless!

Be careful, not scared.

BTW I am only biking 6 months. Car driver 13/14 yrs

Synthol

Stop being a pussy and go ride, just like every single biker you will learn everything with experience.

TallGlass

Don't drive like a lunatic, drive aggressive and read some books on motorcraft driving.

There are things you'll get away with in a car, like running an amber and having a small bump. That small bump to a motorcyclist could be them coming off and getting a serious injury. Stick to rules of the road and treat the machine with respect.

No joke, literally each time before I set off I make sure the horn is working, it not working on a motorcycle could be the difference between staying on the bike or coming off.

We are seriously talking no room for error on a motorbike. You might see lads flying around, filtering in and out. Overtaking down solid whites, moving cars across junctions. These are the folks playing against the odds. Don't get me wrong, we have all done it me included. But sometimes you have hairy moments and it's them moments you learn from and you'll be certain you won't be trying that again.

That all said and done. I wouldn't tell anyone not to go for a bike. Its a great feeling out riding, yes it is risky but I do think at the same time the statistics are blown way out of proportion. The way it's made out is, if you get a bike your going to certainly die. Its not the case at all.

Nomis21

Motor bike riding is about reading the road further ahead.

Getting a Class D bus licence first helped me a lot.

JGZero

Nomis21 wrote: »

Motor bike riding is about reading the road further ahead.

Getting a Class D bus licence first helped me a lot.

Having just started riding a bike this summer following 13 years experience driving a bus I fully agree.
Of course being a novice bike rider means there's a lot to learn to become a competent rider but the defensive and anticipation skills picked up driving a bus through Dublin are a real help to keep yourself safe. That sixth sense of anticipation only comes from experience