Architect error

newo

When building of extension began it became clear that architect's measurements were incorrect. Resulting in approx the loss of just less than a metre to the side of the extension. Made fitting the kitchen difficult it's very small now as space was tight to begin with. Probably more importantly is that the car port can not now fit two cars in it. Estate is twelve years old with allocated parking spots and these are ours. We can probably park one car on the road at the front but it's not ideal. Architect says he doesn't know how he made that mistake the day it was discovered and made light of it and is keeping a low profile and hasn't been in touch. What if anything would you do in our situation? We are understandably peeved about it but builder has done really well in changing the internal layout to ease the pain. Just wondering what people's thoughts are or if this has happened to anyone else? Thanks

Gumbo

Was the architects drawings for planning or for construction?
This is an important detail.

db

If you continued on without rectifying the error when it was discovered then it seems that you accepted it at the time. What do you want to happen now? Do you want compensation from the architect and, if so, how would you calculate your loss?

sydthebeat

when was the mistake noticed? at foundation stage? rising walls etc?
if so, was the architect offered an opportunity to redesign at that stage?

also, the question regarding planning versus construction drawings is important.
planning drawings will quite often have "not for construction" somewhere on them.

con1982

If you continue to build after the mistake was discovered, it could be argued that you have accept the error.

Has the Architect admitted fault in any formal communication? He may have disappeared to avoid this.

If you are certain the error was on his/her drawing, you should write to the Architect and seek his/her proposals from remediating the issue.

If it was my home, I would stop all works and contact my solicitor.

newo

The drawings were for construction. The builder told my OH when they were starting to build the side wall. TBH neither of us thought it was a big deal and it isn't a huge deal with the exception of the fact that the two cars don't fit. We didn't realise this until the walls were up. We probably could or should have asked the architect at that stage how it could be fixed as there could have been possibilities but I'm not sure as the main shell was built and it's a double storey extension. However we are having to rent another property while also cover the mortgage there is no way we could afford to stop building and go through changing the planning application. As with many projects we are way over budget already. I really don't know what we could do but my OH thinks we should at least inform architect in writing that we are unhappy with the error. My main issue is that the property only has one car parking space if we wanted to sell in the future. I think it could be possible to make a change which would allow both cars to fit as he has a fancy little turn in the car port wall to make it look nice but prevents the second car fitting. I'm the type of person who is not confrontational at all or want to sue anyone so would be inclined to just live with it. I think a big part of our annoyance is that he made a joke about trading one car in for a moped and has not contacted us since to formally accept his error or even discuss. Just really wanted to see how others would feel thanks.

rampantbunny

newo wrote: »

The drawings were for construction. The builder told my OH when they were starting to build the side wall. TBH neither of us thought it was a big deal and it isn't a huge deal with the exception of the fact that the two cars don't fit. We didn't realise this until the walls were up. We probably could or should have asked the architect at that stage how it could be fixed as there could have been possibilities but I'm not sure as the main shell was built and it's a double storey extension. However we are having to rent another property while also cover the mortgage there is no way we could afford to stop building and go through changing the planning application. As with many projects we are way over budget already. I really don't know what we could do but my OH thinks we should at least inform architect in writing that we are unhappy with the error. My main issue is that the property only has one car parking space if we wanted to sell in the future. I think it could be possible to make a change which would allow both cars to fit as he has a fancy little turn in the car port wall to make it look nice but prevents the second car fitting. I'm the type of person who is not confrontational at all or want to sue anyone so would be inclined to just live with it. I think a big part of our annoyance is that he made a joke about trading one car in for a moped and has not contacted us since to formally accept his error or even discuss. Just really wanted to see how others would feel thanks.

Understand your pain OP. You're coming across fairly calm I think. Not sure how you are doing it because I'd be pretty p*ssed with that sort of carry on. Can't advise you on what to do unfortunately. The decision to carry on with the work might have been a critical point, but as you pointed out it can be next to impossible to stop things especially when you incurring costs elsewhere.
Have you paid the architect yet?

BryanF

Talk to the architect immediately

newo

Yes the architect was paid pretty early on. Probably when the Planning Permission was approved. Neither of us would have a clue about how things should work. In hindsight it would have made more sense to wait until work was completed to pay him but we presumed this was the way things worked. He handed over to the engineer who does the site visits etc and will sign off. We have been incredibly lucky to have hired a great builder who has made the best of the situation for us. For the moment we are so under pressure financially we just need to carry on and get moved back in asap as paying rent and mortgage is crippling. I'm just not sure what we would say to the architect if we contacted him he's hardly going to offer to pay what would have to be a few thousand if not more to remedy the situation. Unless we contact him and ask him to see if there are any alterations that could be done to allow room for two cars. We can live with the lost space in the kitchen but the utility room which was an important feature is pretty much gone, however the car port is the real annoyance. Reading your replies I'm thinking we should contact him and put the ball in his court perhaps to rectify.

rampantbunny

newo wrote: »

Yes the architect was paid pretty early on. Probably when the Planning Permission was approved. Neither of us would have a clue about how things should work. In hindsight it would have made more sense to wait until work was completed to pay him but we presumed this was the way things worked. He handed over to the engineer who does the site visits etc and will sign off. We have been incredibly lucky to have hired a great builder who has made the best of the situation for us. For the moment we are so under pressure financially we just need to carry on and get moved back in asap as paying rent and mortgage is crippling. I'm just not sure what we would say to the architect if we contacted him he's hardly going to offer to pay what would have to be a few thousand if not more to remedy the situation. Unless we contact him and ask him to see if there are any alterations that could be done to allow room for two cars. We can live with the lost space in the kitchen but the utility room which was an important feature is pretty much gone, however the car port is the real annoyance. Reading your replies I'm thinking we should contact him and put the ball in his court perhaps to rectify.

Absolutely, contact him. Compromised utility, kitchen, and carport. That's too significant to ignore no matter how averse you are to confrontation.

newo

Thanks RB I know you are right!

BryanF

kceire wrote: »

Was the architects drawings for planning or for construction?
This is an important detail.

newo wrote: »

Yes the architect was paid pretty early on. Probably when the Planning Permission was approved.......He handed over to the engineer who does the site visits etc and will sign off......

EDIT:

Talk to the Eng immediately. Avoid using the word ‘hold’ - this phase is about SOLUTIONS (ignore solicitor comments!!)

Consider engaging the arch again. asking what solution can be offered to rectify the ‘planning’ drawing error

Be very careful to avoid laying blame at this stage.

Make sure the above happens ASAP so your eng can inform your contractor before anymore work happens

Note without contracts there is a careful order to the above

Metric Tensor

con1982 wrote: »

If it was my home, I would stop all works and contact my solicitor.

Once a solicitor is involved the Architect is required to notify his professional indemnity insurer who will immediately instruct him to cease all communication and from that point on the only contact you will have is by your solicitor writing to the solicitor appointed by the Architect's insurers.

I would use this only as an ultimate last resort because once a solicitor is involved they and their opposing colleagues will have to be paid substantial fees. Litigation, or threat thereof, is almost inevitable once a letter is written and it will be 5+ years before a solution is achieved.

Tigger

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Once a solicitor is involved the Architect is required to notify his professional indemnity insurer who will immediately instruct him to cease all communication and from that point on the only contact you will have is by your solicitor writing to the solicitor appointed by the Architect's insurers.

I would use this only as an ultimate last resort because once a solicitor is involved they and their opposing colleagues will have to be paid substantial fees. Litigation, or threat thereof, is almost inevitable once a letter is written and it will be 5+ years before a solution is achieved.

yeah the op should just buy a moped like the architecht said

newo

BryanF wrote: »

.

Do you have a point to make? Please make it if so, as I've already outlined above we are not very clued in in relation to construction and building laws.

Architect's drawings were for full construction, detailed drawings including all aspects of materials to be used etc. Engineer required by law to sign off, his role is to confirm that the building is constructed in compliance with the planning conditions.

BryanF

newo wrote: »

Do you have a point to make? Please make it if so, as I've already outlined above we are not very clued in in relation to construction and building laws.

Architect's drawings were for full construction, detailed drawings including all aspects of materials to be used etc. Engineer required by law to sign off, his role is to confirm that the building is constructed in compliance with the planning conditions.

Ok

Apologies I edited my post. In the mean time.

Speak to the architect immediately

Metric Tensor

Tigger wrote: »

yeah the op should just buy a moped like the architecht said

I didn't say not to take the Architect to task. I just said not to write him a solicitors letter as your first step .... it's a last, last resort because it will be feel entirely unsatisfactory once actioned.

BryanF

newo wrote: »

Architect's drawings were for full construction, detailed drawings including all aspects of materials to be used etc. Engineer required by law to sign off, his role is to confirm that the building is constructed in compliance with the planning conditions.

For the record, this wasn’t made clear in earlier posts.

Tigger

Metric Tensor wrote: »

I didn't say not to take the Architect to task. I just said not to write him a solicitors letter as your first step .... it's a last, last resort because it will be feel entirely unsatisfactory once actioned.

whats the first resort?
the architect was informed, at that point they the architect should have said stop one minute lets look at this . they didnt they said but a moped. i agree that accepting and continuing after th mistake was found is a bad idea but its not terminal

Metric Tensor

My suggestions:

Meeting in person to discuss with follow up emails detailing the minutes of the conversations.

Failing satisfactory agreement arising out of that I'd look for a third party trusted by both sides to assist in achieving a satisfactory resolution.

After that - maybe asking the RIAI for advice - I don't know enough about the service they provide to know if this would be of help.

It's more likely that both parties will get a satisfactory solution in an appropriate timescale if negotiations are semi informal (written records if course). It's an old and tired cliche but in this circumstance only one set of people will win once solicitors get involved.

lostcat

newo wrote: »

Architect's drawings were for full construction, detailed drawings including all aspects of materials to be used etc. Engineer required by law to sign off, his role is to confirm that the building is constructed in compliance with the planning conditions.

have you checked with the engineer that he is happy enough to sign off that what is built complies with what was granted planning permission? if the planning drawings were off by as much as you say he may not.

newo

Builder has informed engineer about issue. Think it is ok as said he would be more concerned about building being bigger than plans as opposed to smaller. We haven't spoken to engineer presumably if it was going to be s problem he would have contacted us.

lostcat

newo wrote: »

Builder has informed engineer about issue. Think it is ok as said he would be more concerned about building being bigger than plans as opposed to smaller. We haven't spoken to engineer presumably if it was going to be s problem he would have contacted us.

fair enough, the larger point is that you will have a building which does not actually comply with its planning permission, cert or not. this may arise as a problem if you ever want to sell, etc. and you should probably get the matter regularised by applying for retention planning in due course.

newo

Thanks Lostcat the builder mentioned the same re retention. We wouldn't be thinking of selling for the foreseeable as we have a tracker.