Extreme Hyper Consiousness

Bluefoam

Hey kids,
I've been living outside the country for a few years & only get to see whats going on through the interned and my occasional trips home...

I don't want to turn this into political yes or no debate, but it seems to me that the Repeal campaign (both sides) has hit hyper mode & there is some extreme nervous tension around the topic...

I think its positive that the debate is happening and that the people get to vote on it, but even from far away I can sense the extreme nature the campaign... It's a little concerning and disconcerting.

I've probably created an arsehole of a thread, but I'd likle to know if things are as OTT as they seem from afar...

The_Valeyard

Thread title does not match

iDave

SJW 3rd wave femimist cultural marxists V ring wing religious dogma.
Dont worry it'll be grand lets just ignore both and get on with the voting age referendum.

Bluefoam

We don't have feminism where I'm living... had to look up SJW

Grayson

iDave wrote: »

SJW 3rd wave femimist cultural marxists V ring wing religious dogma.
Dont worry it'll be grand lets just ignore both and get on with the voting age referendum.

People campaigning for healthcare Vs the catholic church.

It's the Americanization of our politics. If I say that I think women should have safe access to abortion in their own country then I'm an SJW. If I go to a protest for this then I'm an SJW.

And the main groups on the other side are all heavily catholic. Youth defense were founded around the time of the divorce referendum. Precious life have said that yoga is a sin. Some of them lie and say that women who have abortions will have breast cancer, women who have abortions will be child abusers.
We've had issues where women died. We had a dead women be kept alive for weeks whilst her brain literally rotted, we had an asylum seeker strapped down and force fed until they cut her open. We've also had hundreds of thousands who have had to travel to another country for safe access to abortion.

Yet somehow this is portrayed as radicals Vs radicals.

Samaris

Yeah, this one is going to be messy, loud and full of bull****. Not looking forward to it myself, it's going to be even messier than the same-sex marriage referendum and that had an awful lot of rubbish being spouted (what the hell, surrogacy?)

Pretty sure I know which way I'll be voting, although I'll wait to see the wording of the question before being a guaranteed.

Where this is going to be a particularly awful debate is that in the last one, both sides were pretty -sure- (rubbishy red herrings aside). In this one, the "pro-life" crowd are just a bit unsure about rape, fatal foetal abnormalities, incest and risks to the mother (and what constitutes a risk to the mother). Much of the "pro-choice" crowd are a bit nervy of end-term abortions, partial-birth abortions.

There's tail-offs on both groups for term limits, be it 12 weeks, 6 weeks, end of second term.

The arguing will be made on the basis of the weakest points of the other side's arguments. Expect to hear a lot about ffa, rape, incest, partial birth abortions and forced abortions, and as little as possible on the areas where both sides can reach an agreement. Because when you're uncertain about your own position, attack the hell out of the weak points in the other side's position.

Plus, ofc, neither side will be brave enough to take the argument to the centre, because to give even a bit to the other side risks them taking the whole cake, and the dinner table with it.

My opinion for what it's worth on the whole thing.

Where I stand on it is - abortion should be allowed for the first trimester for any reason, and further for complications - the mother becomes ill (mentally or physically), the developing foetus is genetically damaged and won't survive, extreme abnormalities in the foetus (yes, extreme is an awkward word, but it'll be argued anyway, so that's my starting point). Resulting abortion should be carried out within the country as part of maternal healthcare, not exported to the UK. This is even more important with the Brexit issue coming up and what that may mean for women who currently have to make that journey. Ideally, I do believe in choice over one's own body, but I'm making concessions to the strength of feeling against abortion by a large section of the country.

Birneybau

My opinion, for what it's worth.

Let it happen. Those that want one can have one, those that don't won't.

If the church shuts up they have a chance of getting their way because of how shrill and off-putting the #Repeal crowd are.

pumpkin4life

First, we have to wait for the phrasing to replace the 8th. That will be the biggest determinant here. Two sentences with the same meaning but different words could have a different impact.

Second, outcome.

The polls will be unreliable; skewed towards no voters. Because:

1: It's more socially acceptable to be for abortion because it has been turned into a "do you hate women" question, which is brilliantly devious in all honestly. So this won't show up on the polls.

2: The media's increased isolation from the big population centres outwards the outside. Enough appearances from Colm O Gorman and the repeal side will start to look more and more like an angry box of tits.

3: An incoming fuck you vote, with abortion being seen as an establishment issue.

4: An election cropping up around this time.

5: The decline and fall of LCD Leo.

6: The piss poor marketing of Repeal the 8. Dark black vests with white text and lightning symbols which look hilariously fascist and angry looking monster munchies with blue hair? Not exactly the happy make love the law line that the letting homosexuals marry line had.

I still think it will be voted in, but I think it will be a lot closer than people think.

If the polls are significantly close, then it's bookies time.

Hande hoche!

Thought this thread was going to be testimonial for some supplement.

Samaris

Not sure it will pass, tbh. I think it will (and I hope it does - assuming that the question is remotely sane) but that it will presumably not give a settled result (all it will do is remove the constitutional block on sorting out some straight-forward legislation on the issue) will continue to cause confusion and people will be able to argue that removing it = automatic forced abortions or late-term abortions or partial-birth abortions or whatever extreme you like.

It won't, no matter how the vote goes, but I note that many of the same extreme liars that got around in the same-sex marriage referendum (again, surrogacy!!) are also involved in this one. Not to say all are, and there will be perfectly sensible arguments on both sides, but the screaming lunatics are going to do their best to take over the conversation by sheer loudness and repetitiveness to spread as much half-truths and lies as possible.

It will be interesting to see what happens regarding facebook and microtargeting. There's little outside interest from those that caused the mess regarding certain other political choices and Ireland is a small country, but we're still English-speaking, which has been the easiest target so far, and the infrastructure (or rather, the ability) to cause chaos is there. We've just not had to face it before. May happen, may not. Or at least, may happen professionally, or may just be used inexpertly by both or either side.

s7ryf3925pivug

One side sees baby killers the other side sees the villains in the handmaids tale.

So debate is a bit pointless I think in terms of persuading people. They'll just become more entrenched and militant. Though it might be encourage more people to vote.

Personally I'm very much in favour of repealing. I don't really think there should have to be a vote - shouldn't be my business or down to people like me to give permission on it. Same as the gay marriage thing in that regard, but more extreme.