Could I switch to EV or hybrid?

dee75

Hi folks

We're very interested in making the switch from diesel for one of our cars, probably mine, as hubby doesnt mind keeping our 7 seater for the school run and ferrying the kids to every activity.

However I do a long commute 4 days a week. It's a 180 km round trip each day. My work place has a charge point though.

Every 3-4 weeks I have to attend meetings at various locations around the country. For example one day last week I went from Carlow to Athlone to Dublin to Carlow.

I have a Kia Sportage and was interested in the Kia Niro maybe? I don't know if an EV would suit my long journeys.

Occasionally all 5 in the family would be in my car so it can't be too small.

We live in rural location and have a garage where cars are parked so can charge there.

What advice would you give me?

Thanks!

unkel

Budget?

Can you rely on getting your car charged at work every day? If you can then with a huge commute like that, an EV will bring you massive savings.

What is the furthest round trip you have to do for work every 3-4 weeks? And do you have to do this trip in the new car, or could you take the 7-seater for this?

dee75

unkel wrote: »

Budget?

Can you rely on getting your car charged at work every day? If you can then with a huge commute like that, an EV will bring you massive savings.

What is the furthest round trip you have to do for work every 3-4 weeks? And do you have to do this trip in the new car, or could you take the 7-seater for this?

Budget is €30k but that includes trading in an 11 sportage. At a push could go to €33k.

As far as I can see only one or two in work charge cars so far, so I am sure I could charge mine every day.

Longest trips can be 300 km. You're right though. I could borrow the 7 seater those days if I was nervous about range.

Forgot to say I really don't like the look of the Leaf (sorry Leaf owners) so that's not an option for me!

unkel

That's a very decent budget. And you are an ideal candidate for a full EV. Contrary to popular belief, EVs are not city cars. EVs will generate the biggest saving, if your mileage is huge, like yours is.

So for 5 seater EVs. Are you aware the new Leaf has just been announced (will be in dealers next month on demo, ready for 181 reg deliveries)? It looks rather decent and is a massive improvement in almost all areas compared to the current Leaf, which is very much outdated now (and I agree with you about the looks )

And there is the Hyundai Ioniq, which is an excellent EV for the money, but its availability is poor. There are long waiting lists. A bit outside your budget is the eGolf. A great allround EV, probably better than the 2 above, but a bit on the pricey side for what you get and it has the shortest range of the three.

Whichever you buy, you will have to charge (once) during your longest trips, but a charge will only take about half an hour or less

dee75

unkel wrote: »

That's a very decent budget. And you are an ideal candidate for a full EV. Contrary to popular belief, EVs are not city cars. EVs will generate the biggest saving, if your mileage is huge, like yours is.

So for 5 seater EVs. Are you aware the new Leaf has just been announced (will be in dealers next month on demo, ready for 181 reg deliveries)? It looks rather decent and is a massive improvement in almost all areas compared to the current Leaf, which is very much outdated now (and I agree with you about the looks )

And there is the Hyundai Ioniq, which is an excellent EV for the money, but it's availability is poor. There are long waiting lists. A bit outside your budget is the eGolf. An excellent allround EV, but a bit on the pricey side for what you get.

Whichever you buy, you will have to charge (once) during your longest trips, but a charge will only take about half an hour or less

Thanks for that. I did think EV cars were for city dwellers!

How is an EV for motorway driving? 110 of my daily commute is motorway and the rest on windy rural roads.

I'm gonna Google the new Leaf for a look

unkel

EVs are fine for motorway driving. Although that said, the range gets less, the faster you drive. But even at 120km/h on the motorway, all those 3 cars could at a push in good weather make it from your home to work and back even without work charging

So with work charging, you could drive well above the speed limits and even in an atrocious winter storm, you would not have to worry about range

Another benefit: if you buy a new EV in Ireland, you get an electric vehicle charger installed at your home. For free. Motortax is €120 for the year and for the moment all public charging is free

And your fuel costs roughly for the 50k km or so per year that you would do is: electricity: about €250 per year (half home charging, half work charging). In a frugal modern diesel that would be €3000 per year, so a massive fuel saving.

BoatMad

dee75 wrote: »

Hi folks

We're very interested in making the switch from diesel for one of our cars, probably mine, as hubby doesnt mind keeping our 7 seater for the school run and ferrying the kids to every activity.

However I do a long commute 4 days a week. It's a 180 km round trip each day. My work place has a charge point though.

Every 3-4 weeks I have to attend meetings at various locations around the country. For example one day last week I went from Carlow to Athlone to Dublin to Carlow.

I have a Kia Sportage and was interested in the Kia Niro maybe? I don't know if an EV would suit my long journeys.

Occasionally all 5 in the family would be in my car so it can't be too small.

We live in rural location and have a garage where cars are parked so can charge there.

What advice would you give me?

Thanks!

we have a Leaf new in early 16 , round trip 130km five days a week

85% is on motorways

we now have 78,000km after 20 months , massive massive fuel savings over previous ICE , mor then enough to pay for car ( what care I about depreciation )

Yes the car will be worth under the GMFV, couldn't care less. ( well see what the dealers offer to incentivise trade-ups to the new new leaf ?

cros13

There is a full electric version of the Kia Niro on the way next year. Probably Q2.

My commute is 187km without workplace charging. With the new 2018 Leaf or the Niro EV you would have the option of doing the return commute without the workplace charging if required at any point.

Shefwedfan

What ages are your kids?

dee75

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What ages are your kids?

11 9 and 5

Shefwedfan

dee75 wrote: »

11 9 and 5

Sorry it might have seemed a strange question, the reason I ask is because of the amount of booster/child seats you will need to use

I have 4,2 and 4 months...so all car seats.....at a push last weekend I fitted all 3, myself, Misses and dog into eGolf. Then done a 200km+ round trip( I have older model eGolf so charged over night at destination)

I have diesel 7 seater as well for the space so we split it up, the days I am in work I take electric car, the days my wife is in work she takes the electric. For the long distance could you swap?

Having 2 cars really makes it so easy to have electric.....

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Having 2 cars really makes it so easy to have electric.....

Except that you really detest driving an ICE when you have an EV.

Shefwedfan

goz83 wrote: »

Except that you really detest driving an ICE when you have an EV.

No alternative when looking for large 7 seater.....

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

Except that you really detest driving an ICE when you have an EV.

If your car is just an A-B vehicle for you then sure. But not if you like driving

I gave my two 6 cylinder petrol cars a good spin today. Lots of smiles

Soarer

dee75 wrote: »

Budget is €30k but that includes trading in an 11 sportage. At a push could go to €33k.

I was thinking about this last night.

You might save yourself a few grand by buying a cheap tested car for a couple of hundred quid now, keep it to get €4k scrappage in the new year, and sell your Sportage privately. Might push your budget into the mid-high 30s.

dee75 wrote: »

Forgot to say I really don't like the look of the Leaf (sorry Leaf owners) so that's not an option for me!

Most Leaf owners wouldn't be great fans of the looks of the current Leaf, so you're safe enough.
The new Leaf is a different beast altogether though, so definitely don't discount that.

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No alternative when looking for large 7 seater.....

No, but there will be soon. We sold our Zafira and picked up our 2nd Leaf. It just didn’t get used and neither of us wanted to drive it. We have 5 kids and it works just great.

unkel wrote: »

If your car is just an A-B vehicle for you then sure. But not if you like driving

I gave my two 6 cylinder petrol cars a good spin today. Lots of smiles

Ex (multiple) FTO owner here. Nothing quite like a V6......but we are not comparing drivers cars, we are talking about “normal” cars.

Shefwedfan

If you do have 30k to spend I would spend it on a Leaf to be honest......

Ioniq or eGolf should be your starting point.....

If you want an idea what the new Leaf will be like, just have a look at Pulsar/Micra that is in your local Nissan dealer.....

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

Ex (multiple) FTO owner here. Nothing quite like a V6.....

V6 are rubbish :pac:

Saloons need a straight six and sports cars need a flat six

goz83

unkel wrote: »

V6 are rubbish :pac:

Saloons need a straight six and sports cars need a flat six

Much prefer the low end torque in the V6. Packs in nicely to the bay of a colt, or fto. But sure we all have our favourite flavour

I would LOVE to convert an fto to electric. Heaven on wheels at budget prices :pac:

dee75

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you do have 30k to spend I would spend it on a Leaf to be honest......

Ioniq or eGolf should be your starting point.....

If you want an idea what the new Leaf will be like, just have a look at Pulsar/Micra that is in your local Nissan dealer.....

Took a quick look in nearest Nissan garage. It's very small isn't it?

I'm not sure I'd ever love it as it's just too different from what I have. The sooner a few companies bring out decent EV SUV's the better. I just like the higher driving position.

The sales person in the Nissan dealers said the current Leaf is about €28k for basic model and you get €5k rebate off that. Does that sound right? If so it's a great price but I think it's just too small for me.

Mooooo

Outlander hybrid from UK?

goz83

dee75 wrote: »

Took a quick look in nearest Nissan garage. It's very small isn't it?

I'm not sure I'd ever love it as it's just too different from what I have. The sooner a few companies bring out decent EV SUV's the better. I just like the higher driving position.

The sales person in the Nissan dealers said the current Leaf is about €28k for basic model and you get €5k rebate off that. Does that sound right? If so it's a great price but I think it's just too small for me.

I thought it was a bit cheaper....with scrappage and all that...it should be closer to 20k for mid spec.

Don’t forget how much cheaper they are to run.

Shefwedfan

dee75 wrote: »

Took a quick look in nearest Nissan garage. It's very small isn't it?

I'm not sure I'd ever love it as it's just too different from what I have. The sooner a few companies bring out decent EV SUV's the better. I just like the higher driving position.

The sales person in the Nissan dealers said the current Leaf is about €28k for basic model and you get €5k rebate off that. Does that sound right? If so it's a great price but I think it's just too small for me.

They had the Leaf 24kWh SVE 172 advertised for 20k a few weeks back, I was offered it for 23k with trade in back in April...not sure what 30kWh is going for but they will be selling them off now the new one if coming....

If you get a garage with one already in stock you can bargain them way down......

The Leaf are small, I found it too small. The boot size I found useless as well. I just didn't like the style of it either......

I'm not saying the eGolf is massively bigger but I found the boot alot better for buggy and as mentioned I got 3 car seats into the back of it the other day.....

In terms of comfort the Golf is miles ahead. I am a fan of VW/Audi. I was swapping an A6 so I wanted to keep up in the premium car range as much as possible....the Ioniq was a close second but even with better range to the eGolf(151 model) I sill wanted the better interior...

dee75

Reading posts over on the Ioniq thread. That sounds a bit more like what I'd be into. It looks well but is there a supply issue?

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The Leaf are small, I found it too small. The boot size I found useless as well. I just didn't like the style of it either......

I'm not saying the eGolf is massively bigger but I found the boot alot better for buggy and as mentioned I got 3 car seats into the back of it the other day.....

The Golf boot is only slightly deeper than a leaf. Cabin space I would rate the same. I wouldn’t have gone for a leaf if it didn’t accommodate a buggy and gear in the boot, plus enough room for the little folks in the back. The Golf is a lovely car and I like it. If I was to pick an eGolf or a Leaf (151/2 models) I would pick the Golf. However, cost-wise, the eGolf is way over priced.

goz83

dee75 wrote: »

Reading posts over on the Ioniq thread. That sounds a bit more like what I'd be into. It looks well but is there a supply issue?

Yes, there is a bit of a waiting list on it alright. Nice car. I test drove one and was considering one, but the sales rep was p/ss poor at his job and lost an easy sale. I also found the break line in the rear window to be quite bothersome.

Shefwedfan

goz83 wrote: »

The Golf boot is only slightly deeper than a leaf. Cabin space I would rate the same. I wouldn’t have gone for a leaf if it didn’t accommodate a buggy and gear in the boot, plus enough room for the little folks in the back. The Golf is a lovely car and I like it. If I was to pick an eGolf or a Leaf (151/2 models) I would pick the Golf. However, cost-wise, the eGolf is way over priced.

As I said Im not saying the eGolf is massively bigger than the Leaf but on buggy test the Phil & Ted fitted the eGolf perfect....it didn't in Leaf.....

As mentioned the Ioniq was a close second but the interior is no where close to the eGolf. Also the design of the back would make it harder getting kids in/out of car seats. That was mainly it. Nothing major.

The eGolf is not expensive. It is similar in price to TDi version if you add on all the extras that come in eGolf.

Would you test drive a petrol Micra/Clio and then go into and tes drive a Golf? would you then expect to get the Golf at the same price as the others?

Once the Tesla 3 comes out in Ireland then you will have a proper comparison and the eGolf will be cheaper.

unkel

dee75 wrote: »

Reading posts over on the Ioniq thread. That sounds a bit more like what I'd be into. It looks well but is there a supply issue?

Big issue. Latest rumour is that Hyundai have stopped production of right hand drive Ioniq EV altogether. You might still get your hands on a demonstrator / cancellation though. Ring all Hyundai dealers in Ireland to try your luck.

liamog

unkel wrote: »

Big issue. Latest rumour is that Hyundai have stopped production of right hand drive Ioniq EV altogether. You might still get your hands on a demonstrator / cancellation though. Ring all Hyundai dealers in Ireland to try your luck.

A very unsubstantiated rumour at this point, Hyundai are taking orders in New Zealand and the UK, so at this point cancelling the RHD seems dubious.

unkel

Indeed Liam. Not substantiated. But backed up though by terrible back logs of deliveries. If I were a gambling man, I would bet serious money that if you ordered a RHD Ioniq EV today, you would not get the car until next year.

liamog

A backlog and a cancellation are very different though, I'd agree that if you ordered today you'd probably be looking at a 4 month wait.

reboot

Going into Winter, don't be surprised if the range drops by about 20% due to battery temperature.

Shefwedfan

Have you test drove any of the cars yet?

KCross

reboot wrote: »

Going into Winter, don't be surprised if the range drops by about 20% due to battery temperature.

Which EV does that? The Leaf doesn't, at least not in this country, in my experience.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Which EV does that? The Leaf doesn't, at least not in this country, in my experience.

My leaf drops significantly in the winter, batteries work less efficiently and the heating uses more energy, The heat pump is not as advantageous at 3degrees and below. Generally now I only have 4 bars of temp leaving the house.

TLDR: I don't see a drop of 20% , maybe 10%

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

My leaf drops significantly in the winter, batteries work less efficiently and the heating uses more energy, The heat pump is not as advantageous at 3degrees and below. Generally now I only have 4 bars of temp leaving the house.

TLDR: I don't see a drop of 20% , maybe 10%

Same here, I'd put it at 5-10%.

liamog

A good resource if your thinking about winter range is Bjorn Nylands winter tests.

If they can survive the Norwegian winter they'll be fine here.

I'd say the Ioniq is a 10% drop as well. We got 204km range in January when we bought the car, up to 228km during the spring summer months.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

A good resource if your thinking about winter range is Bjorn Nylands winter tests.

If they can survive the Norwegian winter they'll be fine here.

I'd say the Ioniq is a 10% drop as well. We got 204km range in January when we bought the car, up to 228km during the spring summer months.

+1
These are the most helpful videos to watch if you are considering makiing the switch to EV but have range anxiety. Particularly the earlier videos and the playlist of tests of the mark1 cars.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

A good resource if your thinking about winter range is Bjorn Nylands winter tests.

I haven't watched a lot of his videos but the ones I have he waffled alot to the point where I just stopped watching.

His recent one about his Model X breaking down (again!)... he could have reported that in 5-10mins... he took 22!


Was I unlucky or does he waffle alot in all his videos?

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

I haven't watched a lot of his videos but the ones I have he waffled alot to the point where I just stopped watching.

His recent one about his Model X breaking down (again!)... he could have reported that in 5-10mins... he took 22!


Was I unlucky or does he waffle alot in all his videos?

There's a lot of waffle but there's a lot of info in the videos aswell.
I enjoy the waffle , but I understand not everyone does.

dee75

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Have you test drove any of the cars yet?

Have never driven an EV or hybrid before.

Looking forward to arranging a couple of test drives over the next month or two.

Not in any panic just yet, but it's great to get the feedback from everyone.

I've been trying to research when Kia are releasing the EV Niro - sometime next year is all I can find. Might be worth waiting for, as I like the SUV style - although I get that it will a heavy vehicle with a very ordinary battery.

It will be so interesting to see what starts coming out over the next year or two - good to see most manufacturers starting to jump on this bandwagon.

unkel

Go test drive a few cars dee75. You will be pleasantly surprised

liamog wrote: »

A good resource if your thinking about winter range is Bjorn Nylands winter tests.

+1

Watching his two parter on the Ioniq was a revelation to me. Here we had a budget family size vehicle. Costing the same to buy as a petrol / diesel car of the same size / spec, with very acceptable range even in sub zero atrocious winter weather in Norway. And obviously only costing a fraction of a petrol / diesel car to run.

I decided to take one for a 24h test drive. And I bought the car one day after the test drive.