Done with Bangernomics, time for something new..

BazzyB

Hello,

Long time reader of the motors form but a first time poster.

Over the past 2 years I have tried to follow the bangernomics model of car ownership ( 2007 Audi A4, 2003 Mercedes C Class and an 2007 Opel Vectra all 1.8 petrols) but it hasn't really worked out for me with each car having a vital mechanical failure of some sort which makes the vehicle an economic write off.

Over the course of 2 years I have lost the best part of €7000 on these vehicles. I now have a full time permanent job and want to go for a new car, for the warranty more than anything else. I would consider myself a relative petrolhead with a big interest in cars but for now driving dynamics and enjoyment has to take a back seat as I need something which will get me to work daily without breaking down once over the next 3 years.

Criteria are as follows:

- New
- Less than €17,000 cheaper the better.
- Fit my 6' 6", 100kg frame
- PCP Finance with the goal being to continue into a new PCP deal in 3 years time, unlikely to buy the vehicle, i'm treating it as a service.
- Large enough boot with the seats folded down for my kitesurfing equipment or a semi-dissembled mountain bike.
- Low running costs (diesel or petrol indifferent I do 500km a week on average with a 60km round trip commute)
- Not a badge snob by any means I appreciate value
- Bluetooth kit and preferably A/C

Currently the cars I have shortlisted are

- Dacia Sandero Signature TCE 75 with the new 1.0L
- Seat Ibiza S 1.0L
- Skoda Fabia Active 1.0L
- Dacia Logan Alternative TCE 75 with the new 1.0L
- Opel Corsa s 1.4
- Honda Jazz (Upper price level) 1.3
- Dacia Duster Alternative 1.5 DCI
- Fiat Panda Lounge 1.2
- Fiat Punto Lounge 1.2

Any thoughts and opinions welcomed. Also any more options?

Thanks

acronym Chilli

Dacia Logan MCV for all that kitesurfing equipment?

Mickiemcfist

BazzyB wrote: »

Hello,

Long time reader of the motors form but a first time poster.

Over the past 2 years I have tried to follow the bangernomics model of car ownership ( 2007 Audi A4, 2003 Mercedes C Class and an 2007 Opel Vectra all 1.8 petrols) but it hasn't really worked out for me with each car having a vital mechanical failure of some sort which makes the vehicle an economic write off.

Over the course of 2 years I have lost the best part of €7000 on these vehicles. I now have a full time permanent job and want to go for a new car, for the warranty more than anything else. I would consider myself a relative petrolhead with a big interest in cars but for now driving dynamics and enjoyment has to take a back seat as I need something which will get me to work daily without breaking down once over the next 3 years.

Criteria are as follows:

- New
- Less than €17,000 cheaper the better.
- Fit my 6' 6", 100kg frame
- PCP Finance with the goal being to continue into a new PCP deal in 3 years time, unlikely to buy the vehicle, i'm treating it as a service.
- Large enough boot with the seats folded down for my kitesurfing equipment or a semi-dissembled mountain bike.
- Low running costs (diesel or petrol indifferent I do 500km a week on average with a 60km round trip commute)
- Not a badge snob by any means I appreciate value
- Bluetooth kit and preferably A/C

Currently the cars I have shortlisted are

- Dacia Sandero Signature TCE 75 with the new 1.0L
- Seat Ibiza S 1.0L
- Skoda Fabia Active 1.0L
- Dacia Logan Alternative TCE 75 with the new 1.0L
- Opel Corsa s 1.4
- Honda Jazz (Upper price level) 1.3
- Dacia Duster Alternative 1.5 DCI
- Fiat Panda Lounge 1.2
- Fiat Punto Lounge 1.2

Any thoughts and opinions welcomed. Also any more options?

Thanks

Sacrificing the driving dynamics of a 1.8 vectra...i can't think of many cars that would be a step back!

Would you not consider a 2 or three year old Skoda superb estate? You shouldn't have any issues with it and they're a vastly superior car for the amount of miles you're planning on doing

BazzyB

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Sacrificing the driving dynamics of a 1.8 vectra...i can't think of many cars that would be a step back!

Would you not consider a 2 or three year old Skoda superb estate? You shouldn't have any issues with it and they're a vastly superior car for the amount of miles you're planning on doing

Dynamic definitely wouldn't be a word i'd use for the Vectra :pac: but it is an SRI spec and actually not too bad a car with the sports suspension and the engine is nice and revvy. The huge boot is the best aspect of it.

Haven't really considered any newer secondhand car at the moment. What is a standard manufacture warranty for most cars? 3 years? Don't think I can handle any more large repair bills.

acronym Chilli

BazzyB wrote: »

What is a standard manufacture warranty for most cars? 3 years? Don't think I can handle any more large repair bills.

Kia offers 7 years. Dacia 3 with optional 2 extra for 5.
Some more info here, but mightn't be up to date as article is from January:
http://www.thejournal.ie/which-car-brands-have-the-best-warranties-3172278-Jan2017/

BazzyB

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Kia offers 7 years. Dacia 3 with optional 2 extra for 5.
Some more info here, but mightn't be up to date as article is from January:
http://www.thejournal.ie/which-car-brands-have-the-best-warranties-3172278-Jan2017/

Thanks for that, an interesting read. Second hand Hyundai and Kias seem to look like good value when you consider the robust warranties. Which could cover me for a 3 year period.

BazzyB

BazzyB wrote: »

................
- Low running costs (diesel or petrol indifferent I do 500km a week on average with a 60km round trip commute) ...............
- Seat Ibiza S 1.0L
- Skoda Fabia .....................
....................
- Opel Corsa s 1.4
............

Any thoughts and opinions welcomed. Also any more options?

Thanks

I've driven an Ibiza (1.0 petrol), Fabia (1.4 diesel) and a Corsa (1.0 petrol) over the last year as rentals.

The thought of doing 25k kms/annum in any of them would depress me.

With a €17k budget would you not go second hand.
Fair enough you got burned with your bangermonic exploits but you either bought 3 crates of sh1t or you are very unlucky.

elperello

I get your desire to have a reliable set of wheels under you.

You might do well with a demo or pre reg towards the end of the year and get something maybe a class up for your budget.

You should also be aware of mileage limits with PCP finance.

Wildcard7

17k get's you a basic tiny new car.

Or a less than 2 year old, decent specced, reliable car that doesn't make you want to shoot yourself every time you look at it or drive up a tiny hill.

Like a 161 Auris with all bells and whistles:
http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1820468&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D88%26o%5B%5D%3D1154%26yn%3D2016%26g%3D0

Or a 161 Leon:
http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1838689&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D78%26o%5B%5D%3D673%26yn%3D2016%26g%3D0

I understand you got burnt going bangernomics route, but there's a middle ground between bangernomics and new cars. It's up to you, but I personally wouldn't want to squeeze 17k into the most basic car, and then replace it in 3 years time for the next basic car.

BazzyB

Augeo wrote: »

I've driven an Ibiza (1.0 petrol), Fabia (1.4 diesel) and a Corsa (1.0 petrol) over the last year as rentals.

The thought of doing 25k kms/annum in any of them would depress me.

With a €17k budget would you not go second hand.
Fair enough you got burned with your bangermonic exploits but you either bought 3 crates of sh1t or you are very unlucky.

I am not completely averse to the thought of going second hand but I would like to reduce the budget proportionally if I was to ~€13K just in the event something did go wrong I would have a safety net.

The bangernomics experience has scared me for the worse i'm afraid I would say I was more unlucky than anything else all the cars lasted 5/6 months before issues reared their heads. (Multitronic Gearbox failure in the Audi, Mercedes Failing its NCT on emissions even with a new cat fitted and the Vectra Cam pulleys wearing out at a supposed 70,000 miles due to a previous owner using wrong oil grade).

grogi

Ibiza SE 1.0 TSI. It is listed for €18k, but you should be able to get it within budget.

BazzyB

Wildcard7 wrote: »

17k get's you a basic tiny new car.

Or a less than 2 year old, decent specced, reliable car that doesn't make you want to shoot yourself every time you look at it or drive up a tiny hill.

Like a 161 Auris with all bells and whistles:
http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1820468&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D88%26o%5B%5D%3D1154%26yn%3D2016%26g%3D0

Or a 161 Leon:
http://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=1838689&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D78%26o%5B%5D%3D673%26yn%3D2016%26g%3D0

I understand you got burnt going bangernomics route, but there's a middle ground between bangernomics and new cars. It's up to you, but I personally wouldn't want to squeeze 17k into the most basic car, and then replace it in 3 years time for the next basic car.

That Auris seems to be a nice car without a doubt. I always had a soft spot for them. How are the modern small toyota diesels? as reliable as their petrols/hybrids?

Seems to be good value in the near new market, I assume that there is more room for some haggling too?

grogi

BazzyB wrote: »

That Auris seems to be a nice car without a doubt. I always had a soft spot for them. How are the modern small toyota diesels? as reliable as their petrols/hybrids?

Seems to be good value in the near new market, I assume that there is more room for some haggling too?

161 is not near-new market - it is almost 2-years-old market... And 'everything is negotiable'.

BazzyB

BazzyB wrote: »

I am not completely averse to the thought of going second hand but I would like to reduce the budget proportionally if I was to ~€13K just in the event something did go wrong I would have a safety net.

The bangernomics experience has scared me for the worse i'm afraid I would say I was more unlucky than anything else all the cars lasted 5/6 months before issues reared their heads. (Multitronic Gearbox failure in the Audi, Mercedes Failing its NCT on emissions even with a new cat fitted and the Vectra Cam pulleys wearing out at a supposed 70,000 miles due to a previous owner using wrong oil grade).

AKA multichronic gearbox :pac:

BazzyB

Augeo wrote: »

AKA multichronic gearbox :pac:

Two years ago I was no where near as well read on its issues unfortunately! Expensive lesson learned

BazzyB

grogi wrote: »

161 is not near-new market - it is almost 2-years-old market... And 'everything is negotiable'.

Noted, hard to turn the mindset away from thinking anything post 2014 is "New" when I'm used to dealing with pre 2008 motor tax shy prices. :P

grogi

BazzyB wrote: »

Noted, hard to turn the mindset away from thinking anything post 2014 is "New" when I'm used to dealing with pre 2008 motor tax shy prices. :P

Really have a look at the small Ibiza. You'll be surprised how big it is...

raxy

I would go with the decent 2nd hand option. Go for a sport tourer to get the extra room for your kit. I certainly wouldn't be buying new & planning on doing PCP & upgrading.
When you go to upgrade you won't have much of a deposit in the balance you will get after the final payment is taken from your trade in.
I had a passat which cost 13K but then ended up with problems like you were having. engine blew up, got it replaced & then had constant oil leaks & problems since.
I ended up getting a seat Leon ST on PCP. low payments & 0% interest which is great but looking at trade in prices I'll be lucky to get 3k deposit when the PCP is up. After 2 years the car dropped 10K based on the trade in I was offered with 50K km on the clock. When I was buying it I was told that would be the value after 3 years.
On the plus side I have only been paying 250/month for a brand new car. I plan on keeping it after & getting a loan to pay off the balance. I'll have a car with a known history so don't have to worry too much about problems

.G.

I bought a 3 year old car 8 years ago, still have it. Only now is it starting to give me some bills, small ones so I can't complain, its served us very well for the money i paid for it back then.

A second hand car doesn't have to be a bangernomics car.

commited

Why don't you consider buying a 3-4 year old Kia Ceed which will still have 3-4 years warranty left:
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-ceed-2013-5dr-diesel-nctd-19/16661797

Miike

I had similar issues with bangers like your self and when my last "banger" gave up on me I had about 10k to my name. I looked around for something reliable and somewhat comfortable. Ended up with a 2011 Diesel Toyota Avensis, purchased from a dealer for 11.5k. In 2 years not a bloody thing has gone in it, I service it with OEM parts and it keeps on trucking. As I see it, the car owes me nothing because every car I had before it was causing me to bleed money at an alarming rate.

It's not a looker nor does it feel like you're driving an S Class but it's serving me superbly well and I find it very comfortable on the longer spins (I do mostly dual carriageway/motor way driving of at least 150km legs)

It's a car I can see my self driving until it gives up. But I REALLY want an E Class estate

acronym Chilli

What were ye in as bangernomics and what were the faults?

I felt I got pretty lucky with my own bangernomics, but still had a couple of outlays over 20 months: fuel pump @ 300, battery ~50, ignition cartridge @ 350. But even with all those, it would still only add up to a couple of months of loan repayments on a new car.

Mickiemcfist

acronym Chilli wrote: »

What were ye in as bangernomics and what were the faults?

I felt I got pretty lucky with my own bangernomics, but still had a couple of outlays over 20 months: fuel pump @ 300, battery ~50, ignition cartridge @ 350. But even with all those, it would still only add up to a couple of months of loan repayments on a new car.

It's on the OP, he was very unlucky/picked bad cars

acronym Chilli

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

It's on the OP, he was very unlucky/picked bad cars

I'd seen that, was curious about Miike's experience, but maybe it's off topic anway

Miike

acronym Chilli wrote: »

I'd seen that, was curious about Miike's experience, but maybe it's off topic anway

My last car:
2007 Hyundai Tucson - 2x Front Shock mounts, DPF faults; cleaned, replacement and then finally removal (3 incidents), Water Pump failure, Steering rack, Every sensor under the bonnet was replaced at one time or other, Injectors went awol (all 4, 4 separate incidents), Turbo replaced twice, two different recon units in around 5 weeks (2nd replacement was 'free' since the recon unit was assumed to have failed prematurely but I still had to pay mechanic to change it twice) but the path to diagnosing the turbo took absolutely weeks, Battery replacement, all 4 wheel bearings but got them done in sets of two and a litany of electric faults. I'm 100% sure I've missed at least 5 or 6 other things that went wrong and I've not included bushings etc that you expect to replace in an older car. It never did anything but break my melt. I bought it with a FULL, VERIFIED, MAIN-DEALER SERVICE HISTORY. Despite all the things that went wrong, I loved driving it but it nearly put me into an early grave. Oh, and I owned it for less than a year.

Finally I was on the motorway one day and it just went into limp mode, every light on the dash came on and it started to sound like a massy on steroids, I was thankful to see the end of that crock of shít.

dil999

When you are thinking of the financing of the car, and particularly if you are thinking of PCP finance, don't think €17K price of the car. Think how much do I want to pay out over the 3 years of the agreement

You will need a deposit, keep it as small as possible most PCP deals require 10% minimum. You will then have monthly payments over 36 months. The cost you you of that car for 3 years will be the deposit + 36 times the monthly payment.

The monthly payments are affected by 4 things:
- Price of the car. - Make sure you get an 8 to 10% discount of the list price
- The interest rate - get the lowest possible
- The deposit paid - Pay the minimum allowed.
- The GMFV - the lump sum payment at the end. This is fixed depending on the car and agreed km limits

PCP is a loan over 3 years. You don't continue an agreement to the next car. You pay off your loan after 3 years. The final payment comes directly out of your account automatically unless you proactively finish the agreement.

You have 4 options:
1 Hand back the car to the finance company after the agreement, and subject to km criteria and condition of the car, the loan will be closed off.

2 Sell the car privately. Arrange for the buyer to pay off the PCP finance, assuming that they agree to pay more than the outstanding amount.

3 Trade in the car at a dealers against a new car. Again similar to 2 the dealer will pay off your remaining loan. If the trade-in value exceeds the value of the loan, that will come off the price of the new car. You may or may not decide to purchase your new car on PCP. if you do, then the excess amount, if any, can be used as a deposit.

4. Pay off the final amount and keep the car. (this can be financed)


If your kms exceeds an agreed yearly amount, say 20K then in the case of option 1, you will need to pay an additional amount to the Finance company to close off the loan. The amount is usually in the range of 6c to 8c per km. If you have done 15K additional kms over the three years then you will need to pay €900 to €1200 to close off the loan. You need to add that cost to you budget.

If the interest rate on the deal is high, it might be worth increasing the deposit a little, as this would reduce the overall amount to be paid back. But remember you will need to have a similar amount of cash available in three years If you wish to purchase another car using PCP.

BazzyB

commited wrote: »

Why don't you consider buying a 3-4 year old Kia Ceed which will still have 3-4 years warranty left:
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-ceed-2013-5dr-diesel-nctd-19/16661797

Very interested in second hand KIA's and Hyundais now as a result of this, provided they have 2 -3 years of warranty remaining. Anyone have any experience of the KIA 1.6 Diesel? An okay reputation?

dil999 wrote: »

When you are thinking of the financing of the car, and particularly if you are thinking of PCP finance, don't think €17K price of the car. Think how much do I want to pay out over the 3 years of the agreement

You will need a deposit, keep it as small as possible most PCP deals require 10% minimum. You will then have monthly payments over 36 months. The cost you you of that car for 3 years will be the deposit + 36 times the monthly payment.

The monthly payments are affected by 4 things:
- Price of the car. - Make sure you get an 8 to 10% discount of the list price
- The interest rate - get the lowest possible
- The deposit paid - Pay the minimum allowed.
- The GMFV - the lump sum payment at the end. This is fixed depending on the car and agreed km limits

PCP is a loan over 3 years. You don't continue an agreement to the next car. You pay off your loan after 3 years. The final payment comes directly out of your account automatically unless you proactively finish the agreement.

...

Thanks very much for the above advice, in particular in relation to the lower deposit if I can stomach a higher monthly premium. I'm going to hit the dealers tomorrow and see what is being offered offered, looking forward to seeing the reaction to telling them I will be doing 25,000Km on average annually.


Odd question and not sure if it's technically possible but do any dealers offer PCP on second hand vehicles? eg. A 161/162 Ford Focus for a similar deposit and monthly payment to a 181 Ford Fiesta?

dil999

BazzyB wrote: »

Very interested in second hand KIA's and Hyundais now as a result of this, provided they have 2 -3 years of warranty remaining. Anyone have any experience of the KIA 1.6 Diesel? An okay reputation?



Thanks very much for the above advice, in particular in relation to the lower deposit if I can stomach a higher monthly premium. I'm going to hit the dealers tomorrow and see what is being offered offered, looking forward to seeing the reaction to telling them I will be doing 25,000Km on average annually.


Odd question and not sure if it's technically possible but do any dealers offer PCP on second hand vehicles? eg. A 161/162 Ford Focus for a similar deposit and monthly payment to a 181 Ford Fiesta?

They do, but usually have higher interest rates

OH has an i30 1.6 deisel. very solid car, really nice to drive.

MidMan25

dil999 wrote: »

When you are thinking of the financing of the car, and particularly if you are thinking of PCP finance, don't think €17K price of the car. Think how much do I want to pay out over the 3 years of the agreement

You will need a deposit, keep it as small as possible most PCP deals require 10% minimum. You will then have monthly payments over 36 months. The cost you you of that car for 3 years will be the deposit + 36 times the monthly payment.

The monthly payments are affected by 4 things:
- Price of the car. - Make sure you get an 8 to 10% discount of the list price
- The interest rate - get the lowest possible
- The deposit paid - Pay the minimum allowed.
- The GMFV - the lump sum payment at the end. This is fixed depending on the car and agreed km limits

PCP is a loan over 3 years. You don't continue an agreement to the next car. You pay off your loan after 3 years. The final payment comes directly out of your account automatically unless you proactively finish the agreement.

You have 4 options:
1 Hand back the car to the finance company after the agreement, and subject to km criteria and condition of the car, the loan will be closed off.

2 Sell the car privately. Arrange for the buyer to pay off the PCP finance, assuming that they agree to pay more than the outstanding amount.

3 Trade in the car at a dealers against a new car. Again similar to 2 the dealer will pay off your remaining loan. If the trade-in value exceeds the value of the loan, that will come off the price of the new car. You may or may not decide to purchase your new car on PCP. if you do, then the excess amount, if any, can be used as a deposit.

4. Pay off the final amount and keep the car. (this can be financed)


If your kms exceeds an agreed yearly amount, say 20K then in the case of option 1, you will need to pay an additional amount to the Finance company to close off the loan. The amount is usually in the range of 6c to 8c per km. If you have done 15K additional kms over the three years then you will need to pay €900 to €1200 to close off the loan. You need to add that cost to you budget.

If the interest rate on the deal is high, it might be worth increasing the deposit a little, as this would reduce the overall amount to be paid back. But remember you will need to have a similar amount of cash available in three years If you wish to purchase another car using PCP.

What's the logic of putting in a minimum deposit?

grogi

MidMan25 wrote: »

What's the logic of putting in a minimum deposit?

To freeze as little money as possible.

dil999

MidMan25 wrote: »

What's the logic of putting in a minimum deposit?

As grogi said, you are tying up as little of your own cash as possible in the the car. Also If you decide to purchase a new car in three years time and decide to finance it using PCP, you will need to come up with a similar deposit again to maintain similar monthly payments

If your PCP deal has a high interest rate, then there is some merit in having a higher deposit, as you will reduce the total interest you need to pay. But you need to balance that up with what you can afford in 3 years time, if you decide on using PCP to finance your next car.

Vermelho

Have you thought about a Ford CMax? I am a surfer and have had two Cmaxs over the past seven years, brilliant for fitting in gear and the higher roof might suit you also given your height. I am selling my 2011 Cmax so just pm me if you would like details and I'll send you the link to the donedeal ad.