New to Dublin, 3000€ rent, help needed

buzztrot

Hi,

I'm new to Dublin and to this forum. It's very nice to meet you all!

My wife and I recently moved to Dublin for work and we're facing some challenges in finding a suitable home. I summarized what happened below, trying to be complete yet concise. I hope you can take the time to read through and offer your advice on what we should do.

My wife and I recently moved into a 2-bed 2-bath apartment in Gran Canal Docks. We signed a 1-year lease in August and we pay 3000€ per month in rent. After singing the lease and settling in, we started to notice issues with the property. The main ones are that the apartment lacks furniture needed for reasonable standards of living, that the existing furniture and fixtures are of mediocre quality not commensurate with the rent we pay, and that there are issues with the apartment and the building that have not been dealt with promptly.

The apartment was advertised as fully furnished, but lacks many important items. We have table, chairs, sofas, and coffee table in the living room, and bed and night stands in the bedroom, but we don't have cabinets and shelves in bathrooms and closets, no chairs in the balcony, no small items like waste bins in the kitchen, umbrella stand, door mat, and no niceties like like a TV. It's hard to explain what this is like, but to give you one example, the bathrooms don't have enough space for toiletries and I am currently keeping mine on top of the laundry machine in the closet.

The apartment was also advertised as furnished to high specifications, while most items are Ikea pieces in the low-to-mid price range. We calculated that the all the furniture provided costs about 2800€, which is less than what we pay for one month of rent. Among other things, we are concerned about the sleep quality of the bed and mattress, and the poor quality of the lighting fixtures.

Finally we have had issues with the apartment and the building. We were promised a covered parking spot, but were given an open one. The blinds in both bedrooms were not installed properly. The dishwasher doesn't drain properly. One light fixture is missing. One bathroom mirror is crocked. The building is new and there are many small issues. For example, the gates don't lock if you don't pull them towards you, and we have found them open at various times of day and night.

Our landlord doesn't live in Dublin and we have never met him in person. He used a third-party agent to let the property but has chosen to manage the property directly after we signed the lease, even though he doesn't live in Dublin and travels regularly. We have interacted with him mostly over email and occasionally the phone. He has been friendly and he has acknowledged most of the issues we raised. With respect to the various apartment and building issues, he has been prompt to respond but meaningful progress has been slow. While he has contacted the builders and contractors after we raised the issues, we've been in the apartment for over a month and many issues like blinds and gates have not been fixed yet.

On the matter of the furniture, he refused to replace any existing furniture, but offered to make an inventory of additional furniture we required. It was effortful to find Ikea items that would fit the space and match the existing furniture, and I came up with a proposal that amounted to about 4000€. Our landlord agreed to cover the costs of only some items for 2000€. He also implied that it would be on us to procure the furniture but he would have a contractor install it. Finally he said we were not allowed to fasten a storage system to the walls of the closet because he considers it a study room (even though it has no windows nor ventilation), and that we were not allowed to change the lighting fixtures.

Of his own accord, and to his credit, the landlord acknowledged that this may not be satisfactory to us, and offered to discuss an early termination of the tenancy. My wife and I notified him that we wished to terminate the lease, and proposed to do so at the end of the upcoming rent cycle (giving 4 weeks to find new tenants and a new home respectively). Our landlord countered that he will only agree to an early termination if he doesn't incur a loss of income, and proposed that the lease will continue as is until he finds new tenants, at which point he will serve us a 3-week termination notice. He also asked that we pay 300€ for extra costs like advertising the apartment and renewing the tenancy.

My wife and I explained that this approach puts most, if not all, the risk on our part. Finding new tenants may take few days or several weeks. In the meantime, if we choose to leave, we will risk paying double rent, and if we choose to stay, we will continue to face the issues mentioned above. Plus when new tenants are found, we will have limited time to find a new accommodation suitable to our needs. We asked our landlord to acknowledge that we're choosing to end the lease early because of commitments that were not honored, and we proposed to agree on a fixed termination date for the lease and to share the extra costs. Our landlord rejected our proposal and said he will enforce the terms of the lease if we don't accept his proposal.

Now it's important to note that my wife signed the lease when she moved in (I wasn't in Dublin yet), and we understand it would have been better to note these issues before signing. However, my wife first saw the apartment when it was still unfurnished, then was asked to pay the deposit or the apartment would be offered to others, then was given one more viewing when the apartment was still only partially furnished. After that, she needed to travel abroad, and when she came back, she went straight from the airport to the apartment, and she had to sign the lease in order to move in. It would have been impractical not to sign the lease and to find another accommodation, plus in reality the issues we have been facing took time to be discovered and appreciated.

At this point my wife and I feel stuck. Our goal is to find a home and settle down. But as I explained above, we risk paying double rent if we go, we can't settle down if we stay, and we have no way to know how long this situation will last. This is where we would appreciate all the help and advice you can offer.

* Is it fair to argue that the apartment doesn't meet the expectations set by the agent and the listing? Is it fair to say that the quality and quantify of furniture and fixtures is not commensurate to the what is expected of the monthly rent we pay?
* Do we have a case to ask for a fixed early termination of the lease and for sharing the friction costs?
* Are we at any risk of losing our deposit if we antagonize our landlord?
* Are we entitled to compensation for the challenges we have faced?
* Do you have any other advice or recommendation?

Thank you so much in advance for all your help!

CalamariFritti

Not familiar with the location and the apartment or with your personal circumstances of course - maybe 3k is not very much for you - but it would have to be a hell of a 2 bed apartment to pay 3k a month for it. Even in the current rental market this seems a premium price that would expect a premium property.
Not being terribly helpful here I know, just caught my eye.

Sarn

There are minimum requirements that the LL has to meet and should fix any broken items. However, when it comes to furniture, there is no requirement as to what type is there nor a tv. Unfortunately what you see is what you get, once the legal minimum standards are met.

CircleofLife

Just from a simple check of sites like Daft and MyHome (both .ie) I can tell you that most apartments in that area are going for around 2.5k. In addition, if you are working in the area, consider having a look at the transport links, as Dublin is only a small city. I'd pay the extra money and go.

Browney7

This should be interesting....

Only thing that jumped out at me was the car space being mentioned and not delivered. Is it in the lease?

Regarding the level of rent being 3k per month. Were you provided with how this was arrived at? If there were sitting tenants previously I'd doubt they were paying 4% or 8% less and so there may be some room for horse trading here. If it's a first let or extensively refurbished this negotiation tactic won't work.

Advertise it yourselves on Daft and see if you get any inquiries or people wishing to take it.

Stheno

buzztrot wrote: »

The apartment was advertised as fully furnished, but lacks many important items. We have table, chairs, sofas, and coffee table in the living room, and bed and night stands in the bedroom, but we don't have cabinets and shelves in bathrooms and closets, no chairs in the balcony, no small items like waste bins in the kitchen, umbrella stand, door mat, and no niceties like like a TV. It's hard to explain what this is like, but to give you one example, the bathrooms don't have enough space for toiletries and I am currently keeping mine on top of the laundry machine in the closet.

The apartment was also advertised as furnished to high specifications, while most items are Ikea pieces in the low-to-mid price range. We calculated that the all the furniture provided costs about 2800€, which is less than what we pay for one month of rent. Among other things, we are concerned about the sleep quality of the bed and mattress, and the poor quality of the lighting fixtures.

There are no legal requirements in terms of what furniture is provided with the exception of:

For each apartment, flat or house being rented as a separate unit, the landlord must ensure that the rental property is in a proper state of structural repair. The Regulations require the landlord to maintain the property in a sound state, inside and out. They specify that roofs, roofing tiles, slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascias, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas must be maintained in good condition and repair. They must not be defective due to dampness or otherwise.

The landlord must ensure that electricity or gas supplies are safe and in good repair, and that every room has adequate ventilation and both natural and artificial lighting.
Laundry, food preparation and food storage

Regulation 7 requires private landlords to provide access to:

A washing machine
A clothes-dryer if the dwelling does not have a private garden or yard

They must also provide facilities for cooking and for the hygienic storage of food, to include the following:

4-ring hob with oven and grill
Cooker hood or extractor fan
Fridge and freezer, or a fridge-freezer
Microwave oven
Kitchen cupboards that are suitable and adequate for storing food
Sink with mains water supply, hot water and draining area

For dwellings rented from local authorities and approved housing bodies, the relevant requirements are in Article 7 of the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 1993. This Article requires the landlord to provide facilities for:

Installation of cooking equipment with provision, where necessary, for the safe and effective removal of fumes
Hygienic storage of food

Other requirements

All landlords must provide:

A sink with hot and cold water
A separate room, for the exclusive use of each rented unit, with a toilet, a washbasin and a fixed bath or shower with hot and cold water
A fixed heating appliance in each room, which is capable of providing effective heating and which the tenant can control
A fire blanket and smoke alarms
Access to vermin-proof and pest-proof refuse storage facilities

In multi-unit buildings, the landlord must provide each unit with a mains-wired smoke alarm; a fire blanket; and an emergency evacuation plan. There must also be emergency lighting in common areas.

That's from citizens information

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

Most of what you are looking for would be stuff that tenants would buy themselves.

Finally we have had issues with the apartment and the building. We were promised a covered parking spot, but were given an open one. The blinds in both bedrooms were not installed properly. The dishwasher doesn't drain properly. One light fixture is missing. One bathroom mirror is crocked. The building is new and there are many small issues. For example, the gates don't lock if you don't pull them towards you, and we have found them open at various times of day and night.

Our landlord doesn't live in Dublin and we have never met him in person. He used a third-party agent to let the property but has chosen to manage the property directly after we signed the lease, even though he doesn't live in Dublin and travels regularly. We have interacted with him mostly over email and occasionally the phone. He has been friendly and he has acknowledged most of the issues we raised. With respect to the various apartment and building issues, he has been prompt to respond but meaningful progress has been slow. While he has contacted the builders and contractors after we raised the issues, we've been in the apartment for over a month and many issues like blinds and gates have not been fixed yet.

There's not much the landlord can do about the gates or issues with the building tbh that's the management company/builder/contractor

He should be addressing the issues within the apartment.

On the matter of the furniture, he refused to replace any existing furniture, but offered to make an inventory of additional furniture we required. It was effortful to find Ikea items that would fit the space and match the existing furniture, and I came up with a proposal that amounted to about 4000€. Our landlord agreed to cover the costs of only some items for 2000€. He also implied that it would be on us to procure the furniture but he would have a contractor install it. Finally he said we were not allowed to fasten a storage system to the walls of the closet because he considers it a study room (even though it has no windows nor ventilation), and that we were not allowed to change the lighting fixtures.

All of that is fairly reasonable to be honest, most landlords would be the same.

Of his own accord, and to his credit, the landlord acknowledged that this may not be satisfactory to us, and offered to discuss an early termination of the tenancy. My wife and I notified him that we wished to terminate the lease, and proposed to do so at the end of the upcoming rent cycle (giving 4 weeks to find new tenants and a new home respectively). Our landlord countered that he will only agree to an early termination if he doesn't incur a loss of income, and proposed that the lease will continue as is until he finds new tenants, at which point he will serve us a 3-week termination notice. He also asked that we pay 300€ for extra costs like advertising the apartment and renewing the tenancy.

That's also pretty standard to be honest, as long as the landlord provides receipts for the expenditure on the advertising and registering the new tenancy.

My wife and I explained that this approach puts most, if not all, the risk on our part. Finding new tenants may take few days or several weeks. In the meantime, if we choose to leave, we will risk paying double rent, and if we choose to stay, we will continue to face the issues mentioned above. Plus when new tenants are found, we will have limited time to find a new accommodation suitable to our needs. We asked our landlord to acknowledge that we're choosing to end the lease early because of commitments that were not honored, and we proposed to agree on a fixed termination date for the lease and to share the extra costs. Our landlord rejected our proposal and said he will enforce the terms of the lease if we don't accept his proposal.

Now it's important to note that my wife signed the lease when she moved in (I wasn't in Dublin yet), and we understand it would have been better to note these issues before signing. However, my wife first saw the apartment when it was still unfurnished, then was asked to pay the deposit or the apartment would be offered to others, then was given one more viewing when the apartment was still only partially furnished. After that, she needed to travel abroad, and when she came back, she went straight from the airport to the apartment, and she had to sign the lease in order to move in. It would have been impractical not to sign the lease and to find another accommodation, plus in reality the issues we have been facing took time to be discovered and appreciated.

The issues arose after you signed the lease. The landlord has liaised with the builders, agreed to fund up to 2000 euro of new furniture despite his not having to and may be working to resolve the other minor issues in the apartment.



* Is it fair to argue that the apartment doesn't meet the expectations set by the agent and the listing? Is it fair to say that the quality and quantify of furniture and fixtures is not commensurate to the what is expected of the monthly rent we pay? You'd have to show the listing tbh.
* Do we have a case to ask for a fixed early termination of the lease and for sharing the friction costs? Not in my opinion
* Are we at any risk of losing our deposit if we antagonize our landlord? Yes and being asked to pay rent indefinitely until he finds someone new
* Are we entitled to compensation for the challenges we have faced? Not in my opinion.
* Do you have any other advice or recommendation? Accept the landlords suggestion and try to find another property, pay double rent if you need to, it's probably the easiest solution

The rental market in Dublin is brutal at the moment, even at those levels of rents.

Sleeper12

Browney7 wrote:

Only thing that jumped out at me was the car space being mentioned and not delivered. Is it in the lease?

Parking space is provided but it is not sheltered. Unless it actually states sheltered in the lease I see this as a non issue

Browney7 wrote:

Regarding the level of rent being 3k per month. Were you provided with how this was arrived at? If there were sitting tenants previously I'd doubt they were paying 4% or 8% less and so there may be some room for horse trading here. If it's a first let or extensively refurbished this negotiation tactic won't work.

OP seems to indicate that it's a new build. Builders are still on site so landlord can set any rent he likes. 3k seems high to me.

ED E

Rent €1800
Being beside Google Tax €1200

You're not paying high rent for a nice place, you're paying high rent for a location in insane demand.

awec

buzztrot wrote: »

Hi,

I'm new to Dublin and to this forum. It's very nice to meet you all!

My wife and I recently moved to Dublin for work and we're facing some challenges in finding a suitable home. I summarized what happened below, trying to be complete yet concise. I hope you can take the time to read through and offer your advice on what we should do.

My wife and I recently moved into a 2-bed 2-bath apartment in Gran Canal Docks. We signed a 1-year lease in August and we pay 3000€ per month in rent. After singing the lease and settling in, we started to notice issues with the property. The main ones are that the apartment lacks furniture needed for reasonable standards of living, that the existing furniture and fixtures are of mediocre quality not commensurate with the rent we pay, and that there are issues with the apartment and the building that have not been dealt with promptly.

The apartment was advertised as fully furnished, but lacks many important items. We have table, chairs, sofas, and coffee table in the living room, and bed and night stands in the bedroom, but we don't have cabinets and shelves in bathrooms and closets, no chairs in the balcony, no small items like waste bins in the kitchen, umbrella stand, door mat, and no niceties like like a TV. It's hard to explain what this is like, but to give you one example, the bathrooms don't have enough space for toiletries and I am currently keeping mine on top of the laundry machine in the closet.

The apartment was also advertised as furnished to high specifications, while most items are Ikea pieces in the low-to-mid price range. We calculated that the all the furniture provided costs about 2800€, which is less than what we pay for one month of rent. Among other things, we are concerned about the sleep quality of the bed and mattress, and the poor quality of the lighting fixtures.

Finally we have had issues with the apartment and the building. We were promised a covered parking spot, but were given an open one. The blinds in both bedrooms were not installed properly. The dishwasher doesn't drain properly. One light fixture is missing. One bathroom mirror is crocked. The building is new and there are many small issues. For example, the gates don't lock if you don't pull them towards you, and we have found them open at various times of day and night.

Our landlord doesn't live in Dublin and we have never met him in person. He used a third-party agent to let the property but has chosen to manage the property directly after we signed the lease, even though he doesn't live in Dublin and travels regularly. We have interacted with him mostly over email and occasionally the phone. He has been friendly and he has acknowledged most of the issues we raised. With respect to the various apartment and building issues, he has been prompt to respond but meaningful progress has been slow. While he has contacted the builders and contractors after we raised the issues, we've been in the apartment for over a month and many issues like blinds and gates have not been fixed yet.

On the matter of the furniture, he refused to replace any existing furniture, but offered to make an inventory of additional furniture we required. It was effortful to find Ikea items that would fit the space and match the existing furniture, and I came up with a proposal that amounted to about 4000€. Our landlord agreed to cover the costs of only some items for 2000€. He also implied that it would be on us to procure the furniture but he would have a contractor install it. Finally he said we were not allowed to fasten a storage system to the walls of the closet because he considers it a study room (even though it has no windows nor ventilation), and that we were not allowed to change the lighting fixtures.

Of his own accord, and to his credit, the landlord acknowledged that this may not be satisfactory to us, and offered to discuss an early termination of the tenancy. My wife and I notified him that we wished to terminate the lease, and proposed to do so at the end of the upcoming rent cycle (giving 4 weeks to find new tenants and a new home respectively). Our landlord countered that he will only agree to an early termination if he doesn't incur a loss of income, and proposed that the lease will continue as is until he finds new tenants, at which point he will serve us a 3-week termination notice. He also asked that we pay 300€ for extra costs like advertising the apartment and renewing the tenancy.

My wife and I explained that this approach puts most, if not all, the risk on our part. Finding new tenants may take few days or several weeks. In the meantime, if we choose to leave, we will risk paying double rent, and if we choose to stay, we will continue to face the issues mentioned above. Plus when new tenants are found, we will have limited time to find a new accommodation suitable to our needs. We asked our landlord to acknowledge that we're choosing to end the lease early because of commitments that were not honored, and we proposed to agree on a fixed termination date for the lease and to share the extra costs. Our landlord rejected our proposal and said he will enforce the terms of the lease if we don't accept his proposal.

Now it's important to note that my wife signed the lease when she moved in (I wasn't in Dublin yet), and we understand it would have been better to note these issues before signing. However, my wife first saw the apartment when it was still unfurnished, then was asked to pay the deposit or the apartment would be offered to others, then was given one more viewing when the apartment was still only partially furnished. After that, she needed to travel abroad, and when she came back, she went straight from the airport to the apartment, and she had to sign the lease in order to move in. It would have been impractical not to sign the lease and to find another accommodation, plus in reality the issues we have been facing took time to be discovered and appreciated.

At this point my wife and I feel stuck. Our goal is to find a home and settle down. But as I explained above, we risk paying double rent if we go, we can't settle down if we stay, and we have no way to know how long this situation will last. This is where we would appreciate all the help and advice you can offer.

* Is it fair to argue that the apartment doesn't meet the expectations set by the agent and the listing? Is it fair to say that the quality and quantify of furniture and fixtures is not commensurate to the what is expected of the monthly rent we pay?
* Do we have a case to ask for a fixed early termination of the lease and for sharing the friction costs?
* Are we at any risk of losing our deposit if we antagonize our landlord?
* Are we entitled to compensation for the challenges we have faced?
* Do you have any other advice or recommendation?

Thank you so much in advance for all your help!

On this point no, I think you are out of luck. I am surprised the landlord even entertained the notion of paying for more furniture for you.

A furnished apartment does not mean it comes with every bit of furniture you could possibly need. It will come with the big items, the smaller items are on you. The reason for this is usually people will have their own smaller items of furniture that is easier to transport from home to home as they move.

Expecting bins, umbrella stands, outdoor dining tables and even a TV is just fantasy land stuff.

Browney7

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Parking space is provided but it is not sheltered. Unless it actually states sheltered in the lease I see this as a non issue





OP seems to indicate that it's a new build. Builders are still on site so landlord can set any rent he likes. 3k seems high to me.

They do alright - no hiding place so. Needs to find an assignee pronto

the_syco

buzztrot wrote: »

My wife and I recently moved into a 2-bed 2-bath apartment in Gran Canal Docks. We signed a 1-year lease in August and we pay 3000€ per month in rent.

You probably went for this thinking it was a high standard apartment, when in fact it's a mid-range apartment that is close to a few large companies.

buzztrot wrote: »

We were promised a covered parking spot, but were given an open one

TBH, if it's in the lease that you were getting a covered parking spot, perhaps use this as a reason to break the lease, and rent out somewhere else? Maybe a better place that is not so close to certain large companies?

eddiem74

So with a 1 year lease I assume termination within the first 6 months by either party without a reason does not apply?

buzztrot

Thank you everyone for sharing your feedback. This community is great and your advice so helpful!

* The building is brand new and we are the first tenants. I was told the property we are in was purchased for 575000€.

* There are several parking spots in the building, most covered, some open. The agent told my wife we would have a covered spot during the first viewing. The builders told my wife we had an open parking spot after she signed the lease and moved in. This was only discussed verbally and is not in the lease. The agent later told our landlord she was simply mistaken, and the landlord asked us to forgive the misunderstanding. I do believe the landlord operated in good faith, and most of the confusion was caused by the agent.

* The landlord has provided all the furniture required by law. However, the listing included sentences like "superb and fully furnished" and "furnished to a very high specification", and the agent told my wife that the apartment would be furnished with high end furniture. We accepted to pay a premium (as compared to average rent in the area) with the expectation we would receive a commensurate level of furniture and we wouldn't need to buy additional furniture. I understand that this gets into subjective territory, but how do you resolve situations where there's a mismatch of expectations between tenants and landlord?

* Some people suggested to find a new place and pay double rent. The issue with this is that we could end up paying double rent for several weeks, even months, and for the rest of the duration of the lease in the worst case scenario. As of now, it doesn't appear that he has started to advertise the property again, and there haven't been any viewings. Basically the landlord is only prepared to terminate the lease on the same day that a new lease would start. It would be simply too costly and too risky to start a new lease before we know for sure if and when the current one will end.

* The last comment above mentioned the idea of terminating the lease within the first 6 months without cause. We were told about this possibility by other friends as well. Is this a real option, or are we being misinformed. I would rather not drop the lease and put the landlord in a difficult situation, but understanding if this is an option would be very helpful.

Thank you again in advance for all your help!

Mrs Shuttleworth

OP I think the only substantive issues of complaint from your post are the dishwasher not draining, possibly the mattress not being of adequate quality and the level of rent itself you are paying.

The landlord has been very reasonable in his proposal to allow you move on without hitting you for rent if he can find a replacement tenant. Bear in mind when looking for a new apartment you are unlikely to find a unit in the current climate to meet the expectations you outline in the opening post, and your current landlord is also unlikely to give you a reference. Unless you have some serious issue with the building itself or safety concern I would be trying to deal with these rather trivial issues if I might say, with the landlord himself.

Muahahaha

I know paying double rent is a risk for you. However in the current Dublin rental market I think you are in a better situation than you think. This is because 1) You have a budget of up to 3k a month which is more than enough to secure 99% of available properties and 2) Demand for apartments in Grand Canal Dock is outstripping supply so it should not be too difficult for your landlord to find new tenants.

What I would do in your situation is put plans in place for two things- 1) Finding a new place to live and 2) Finding a short term Airbnb rental that will rent to you by the week. So ask your landlord to find new tenants and move out on the specified date. Your hope is you can move directly into a new place but if that does not work timing wise then you still have the Airbnb short term rental to fall back on.

As others have said I do not think you have any claim for compensation here You certainly got mis-sold something but because it is both subjective and a verbal contract your case is very weak. It is better to move on and look forward in this case.

Lantus

I'd suck it up. You sound very particular. Umbrella stand sent off the alarm bells for me. Why would it matter if parking is open? Does your car let water in?

Unless you have cash to burn just make the place homely and move after 12 months. There sounds like nothing a little creativity can't solve.

Location is why your paying a premium. It has nothing to do with value.

Marcusm

buzztrot wrote: »

Thank you everyone for sharing your feedback. This community is great and your advice so helpful!

* The building is brand new and we are the first tenants. I was told the property we are in was purchased for 575000€.

* There are several parking spots in the building, most covered, some open. The agent told my wife we would have a covered spot during the first viewing. The builders told my wife we had an open parking spot after she signed the lease and moved in. This was only discussed verbally and is not in the lease. The agent later told our landlord she was simply mistaken, and the landlord asked us to forgive the misunderstanding. I do believe the landlord operated in good faith, and most of the confusion was caused by the agent.

* The landlord has provided all the furniture required by law. However, the listing included sentences like "superb and fully furnished" and "furnished to a very high specification", and the agent told my wife that the apartment would be furnished with high end furniture. We accepted to pay a premium (as compared to average rent in the area) with the expectation we would receive a commensurate level of furniture and we wouldn't need to buy additional furniture. I understand that this gets into subjective territory, but how do you resolve situations where there's a mismatch of expectations between tenants and landlord?

* Some people suggested to find a new place and pay double rent. The issue with this is that we could end up paying double rent for several weeks, even months, and for the rest of the duration of the lease in the worst case scenario. As of now, it doesn't appear that he has started to advertise the property again, and there haven't been any viewings. Basically the landlord is only prepared to terminate the lease on the same day that a new lease would start. It would be simply too costly and too risky to start a new lease before we know for sure if and when the current one will end.

* The last comment above mentioned the idea of terminating the lease within the first 6 months without cause. We were told about this possibility by other friends as well. Is this a real option, or are we being misinformed. I would rather not drop the lease and put the landlord in a difficult situation, but understanding if this is an option would be very helpful.

Thank you again in advance for all your help!

You have acted on trust that the “trader’spuffs” included in the ad would be delivered. Realistically there are few 2 bed GCD apartments which will rent for 3k and it does not sound as if you’re would realise that on a deleting, meaning that the landlord may be empowered to recover any shortfall from you.

It’s disappointing that you have suffered this experience and in part relat s to the fact that you agreed to lease prior to it being finished/furnished. Decide whether you are better funding some of the additional furniture personally. An unsheltered parking space is a nuisance rather than a reason to terminate. Perhaps seek an alternative compromise, perhaps a 6 month break option such that you can see this as an expensive short let and then find the property you want.

Marcusm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I know paying double rent is a risk for you. However in the current Dublin rental market I think you are in a better situation than you think. This is because 1) You have a budget of up to 3k a month which is more than enough to secure 99% of available properties and 2) Demand for apartments in Grand Canal Dock is outstripping supply so it should not be too difficult for your landlord to find new tenants.

What I would do in your situation is put plans in place for two things- 1) Finding a new place to live and 2) Finding a short term Airbnb rental that will rent to you by the week. So ask your landlord to find new tenants and move out on the specified date. Your hope is you can move directly into a new place but if that does not work timing wise then you still have the Airbnb short term rental to fall back on.

As others have said I do not think you have any claim for compensation here You certainly got mis-sold something but because it is both subjective and a verbal contract your case is very weak. It is better to move on and look forward in this case.

It doesn’t sound as if the LL could relet at the same level and they may be liable for the shortfall.

Lumen

Lantus wrote: »

I'd suck it up. You sound very particular.

I suspect the OP is some foreign sort with crazy expectations about value for money.

vrusinov

ED E wrote: »

You're not paying high rent for a nice place, you're paying high rent for a location in insane demand.

+1. Move the f*ck out. I work in Grand Canal Dock, but live close to Booterstown and have a nice commute of 15-minute bike ride or 15-minute bus/train ride on rainy days.
Considering moving even further away.

2br rents there are close to half of what you are paying now (around 1.6k - 1.8k).

Skerries

he's not wrong
you would be better moving further out from the centre and renting a house and put the extra money to buying nicer stuff for the place.
The reason you didn't see a TV and won't in any rental property is that there is a licence required for TV and so landlords don't put them in so they are not liable for paying it and it is on the tenant to get one

davindub

Marcusm wrote: »

It doesn’t sound as if the LL could relet at the same level and they may be liable for the shortfall.

Above market rates are actually prohibited by the RTB act.

davindub

davindub wrote: »

Above market rates are actually prohibited by the RTB act.

In a new letting the market rate is whatever someone will pay for it.

Sleeper12

Lumen wrote:

I suspect the OP is some foreign sort with crazy expectations about value for money.

Alas with no housing shortfall /crisis the op can't ex value for money even at 3k per month.

In fairness op is paying 5 star prices for 4 star accommodation. I can understand their frustration

Taylor365

Always try before you 'buy'.

Did you not view the apartment?

Ads and estate agents will say anything to sell. That's basic business.

Heart Break Kid

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Not familiar with the location and the apartment or with your personal circumstances of course - maybe 3k is not very much for you - but it would have to be a hell of a 2 bed apartment to pay 3k a month for it. Even in the current rental market this seems a premium price that would expect a premium property.
Not being terribly helpful here I know, just caught my eye.

Nearby you could get a 3 bedroom, 3storey house for 2.5k . Again not immensely helpfull but just a thought.

rawn

Mr.S wrote: »

Did you view the show room apartment and assumed you would get the same furniture?

In any case, you should have confirmed in the lease / writing with the agent / landlord what was included furniture wise. Verbal agreements mean nothing really.

It's rare for a rental to include tv, balcony furniture, umbrella stand (:D:D) etc - these are all extra's, and not strange at all that they aren't provided.

As others have said, you are paying a huge premium for the location, and the agent / LL most likely added some more on top knowing non-irish moving to Dublin to work in Dublin will pay top dollar due to the shortage.

Just buy the things you want and make it a home, and then move out after 12 months if you want more value for money.

Did you read the OP?

buzztrot wrote: »

Now it's important to note that my wife signed the lease when she moved in (I wasn't in Dublin yet), and we understand it would have been better to note these issues before signing. However, my wife first saw the apartment when it was still unfurnished, then was asked to pay the deposit or the apartment would be offered to others, then was given one more viewing when the apartment was still only partially furnished. After that, she needed to travel abroad, and when she came back, she went straight from the airport to the apartment, and she had to sign the lease in order to move in. It would have been impractical not to sign the lease and to find another accommodation, plus in reality the issues we have been facing took time to be discovered and appreciated.

At this point my wife and I feel stuck. Our goal is to find a home and settle down. But as I explained above, we risk paying double rent if we go, we can't settle down if we stay, and we have no way to know how long this situation will last. This is where we would appreciate all the help and advice you can offer.

CruelCoin

Sleeper12 wrote: »

OP seems to indicate that it's a new build. Builders are still on site so landlord can set any rent he likes. 3k seems high to me.

He's not going to be able to increase the rent in line with market value thanks to RPZ.
Looks like he's pricing ahead of the market and giving himself some breathing room.

I'd do the exact same.

Moonbeam

That is one of the most expensive areas to rent in ireland. It is right beside Facebook and Google and some of the other big employers.
https://www.rtb.ie/tenants might be able to help you.

Mr.H

So the apartment generates 36k a year............. landlords are really taking the p**s now.

I don't give a toss about their costs. Every business has costs. But that is crazy money.

Metric Tensor

If it cost the landlord 575k to buy then the return on investment isn't actually particularly good!

Mr.H

Jesus that is some cost for a two bed apartment regardless of location. Maybe it's not landlord o should be aiming my "taking the p**s" accusation at.

I know it's probably a little off topic but if someone paid that amount, then somebody is after making a fortune in profit somewhere along the line.

CruelCoin

Mr.H wrote: »

So the apartment generates 36k a year............. landlords are really taking the p**s now.

I don't give a toss about their costs. Every business has costs. But that is crazy money.

You've clearly never been involved in business.
Costs are not imaginary, and have to be covered.

In this scenario, the landlord is looking at 16 years before he breaks even, not including mortgage costs and taxation on the income.

In reality, he's looking at 30 years+ just to break even. Now that's Crazy.

Browney7

CruelCoin wrote: »

You've clearly never been involved in business.
Costs are not imaginary, and have to be covered.

In this scenario, the landlord is looking at 16 years before he breaks even, not including mortgage costs and taxation on the income.

In reality, he's looking at 30 years+ just to break even. Now that's Crazy.

So the apartment will be worthless in 20 years time?

Not disputing there are costs here but trying to spin a 6.2% yield before any capital appreciation (or fall if the housing market tanks) as being a terrible return is disingenuous. If he sells for 575 in ten years and makes a 3% yield per annum after costs and tax he's made 170k profit

minikin

Hi Buzztrot,

Welcome to Dublin/here!

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/do-i-have-to-sign-a-lease/

pilly

buzztrot wrote: »

Thank you everyone for sharing your feedback. This community is great and your advice so helpful!

* The building is brand new and we are the first tenants. I was told the property we are in was purchased for 575000€.

* There are several parking spots in the building, most covered, some open. The agent told my wife we would have a covered spot during the first viewing. The builders told my wife we had an open parking spot after she signed the lease and moved in. This was only discussed verbally and is not in the lease. The agent later told our landlord she was simply mistaken, and the landlord asked us to forgive the misunderstanding. I do believe the landlord operated in good faith, and most of the confusion was caused by the agent.

* The landlord has provided all the furniture required by law. However, the listing included sentences like "superb and fully furnished" and "furnished to a very high specification", and the agent told my wife that the apartment would be furnished with high end furniture. We accepted to pay a premium (as compared to average rent in the area) with the expectation we would receive a commensurate level of furniture and we wouldn't need to buy additional furniture. I understand that this gets into subjective territory, but how do you resolve situations where there's a mismatch of expectations between tenants and landlord?

* Some people suggested to find a new place and pay double rent. The issue with this is that we could end up paying double rent for several weeks, even months, and for the rest of the duration of the lease in the worst case scenario. As of now, it doesn't appear that he has started to advertise the property again, and there haven't been any viewings. Basically the landlord is only prepared to terminate the lease on the same day that a new lease would start. It would be simply too costly and too risky to start a new lease before we know for sure if and when the current one will end.

* The last comment above mentioned the idea of terminating the lease within the first 6 months without cause. We were told about this possibility by other friends as well. Is this a real option, or are we being misinformed. I would rather not drop the lease and put the landlord in a difficult situation, but understanding if this is an option would be very helpful.

Thank you again in advance for all your help!

Hi OP, you can certainly move out within the 1st 6 months without reason and if you're really unhappy with the place I would do this. You may have trouble getting your deposit back though.

Do bear in mind though that some of the things you expected are not in most furnished places such as television etc.

I have seen some beautiful serviced places though that would be furnished to very high standards for the price your paying, worth looking into them.

As others have mentioned you're paying for the location, nothing else. Also a parking space is extra in the city centre. Do you have to live in the city centre? And if you do, do you then need a car?

Graham

pilly wrote: »

Hi OP, you can certainly move out within the 1st 6 months without reason and if you're really unhappy with the place I would do this. You may have trouble getting your deposit back though.

On what grounds do you think the OP can terminate the 12 month lease?

From the RTB:

Similarly, a tenant can only terminate a fixed term tenancy where the landlord has been in breach of his or her obligations.(6) In addition however, where the landlord has refused consent to an assignment or sub-let, the tenant can also terminate the tenancy, in accordance with Section 186.

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

Kerryman79

pilly wrote: »

Hi OP, you can certainly move out within the 1st 6 months without reason and if you're really unhappy with the place I would do this. You may have trouble getting your deposit back though.

Do bear in mind though that some of the things you expected are not in most furnished places such as television etc.

I have seen some beautiful serviced places though that would be furnished to very high standards for the price your paying, worth looking into them.

As others have mentioned you're paying for the location, nothing else. Also a parking space is extra in the city centre. Do you have to live in the city centre? And if you do, do you then need a car?

Ah come on now this place doesn't even have an umbrella stand FFS !

Tar.Aldarion

Umbrella strands are generally provided at around the €4k-€5k mark, you cheaped out OP and this is what you get.

Anyway to be serious, the best solution is for you to find tenants for the apartment, you will then know when you have them and are able to get a new place without paying double rent.

If the landlord does not accept the people you choose or does not let you do so, you can still leave:

Ending a fixed-term tenancy
If you have a fixed-term tenancy agreement or a lease, you are also subject to the terms of this agreement, as well as having to comply with the notice periods listed above. This means that you may lose your deposit if you leave before the term stated in the lease, even if you give the correct amount of notice. However, there are some exceptions, as follows:

If there is a break clause in your lease, you can use it to end the tenancy
If you and the landlord both agree to ending the tenancy sooner
If the landlord has breached their obligations under the lease, and has not rectified the breach within a reasonable time, then you only need to give 28 days’ notice
If the landlord’s behaviour causes imminent danger of death or serious injury, or danger to the fabric of the dwelling, then you only need to give 7 days’ notice
If a private landlord has refused permission to assign or sublet

From time to time tenants sign lease agreements but during the tenancy may have to leave; for example they may no longer be able to afford the rent, have to relocate for employment etc. Normally you cannot terminate a lease unless your landlord is in breach of their obligations in relation to the tenancy, there is a break clause or both you and the landlord agree to end the lease early.


As a tenant, you cannot assign or sub-let without the landlord's written consent. However, you may terminate the tenancy if your request to assign or sublet is refused. It is advisable to get any refusal in writing.


It is important to decide if you want to assign or sublet your tenancy.


Assignment is where you find someone to replace you and you leave the tenancy; the person who replaces you becomes the tenant of the landlord. A new tenancy cycle begins and you no longer have any responsibilities under the tenancy.


Subletting to another person is where you move out and let to a sub-tenant who takes over your tenancy, usually for a specified period of time. You effectively become their landlord but are still responsible for the tenancy to the landlord. For example, if the sub-tenant fails to pay the rent you will be liable for this. If you wish to return to the property you will have to issue a written notice of termination to the sub tenant in compliance with the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

What to do

If you have a lease and wish to assign or sub-let your tenancy, write to your landlord and request permission. Use the template letter in the Useful Downloads section on this page.
If your landlord agrees to your request, then you will have to find a new tenant or sub-tenant
If your landlord refuses, you can terminate the tenancy by issuing a written notice of termination

CruelCoin

Browney7 wrote: »

So the apartment will be worthless in 20 years time?

Not disputing there are costs here but trying to spin a 6.2% yield before any capital appreciation (or fall if the housing market tanks) as being a terrible return is disingenuous. If he sells for 575 in ten years and makes a 3% yield per annum after costs and tax he's made 170k profit

3% yield in any industry is terribly low. Businesses making yields that low tend not to survive beyond their first cashflow crisis.

170k is a big number but 3% is 3%.

Ronney

ED E wrote: »

Rent €1800
Being beside Google Tax €1200

You're not paying high rent for a nice place, you're paying high rent for a location in insane demand.

Above pretty much sums up the Rent (also beside Facebook, airbnb etc.) Prices down round the "Silicon Dock" are being pushed up alot.

For €3000 a month you should expect something of a top standard. I would move out and now your a bit more familiar with Dublin extend your area of search

Taylor365

Mr.H wrote: »

So the apartment generates 36k a year............. landlords are really taking the p**s now.

I don't give a toss about their costs. Every business has costs. But that is crazy money.

If the LL has a large mortgage, he's paying upto 25k a year

LPT + mgmt fee = around €2000-2500

€27k before insurance, maintenance, prtb, capital expenditure, TAX.

So after costs, I'm not sure he's making anything.


Most Dublin apartments would be lucky making 2-3k profit per year.

Browney7

CruelCoin wrote: »

3% yield in any industry is terribly low. Businesses making yields that low tend not to survive beyond their first cashflow crisis.

170k is a big number but 3% is 3%.

Compare that to the gross dividend yield on the Ires REIT and half it to get the net yield after income tax is paid on the dividend for a direct comparison and you'll see 3% net yield after tax p.a. ignoring changes in underlying value of the asset is good, considering the risk free rate of return is 0% (if not negative) at the moment. The LL is obviously happy with it anyway. The high tax amount is a different debate - all individual, tax paying investors pay the marginal rate on their dividends.

No doubt the LL is making a leveraged investment here so his actual return on his capital employed (the amount paid over the mortgage) is much higher but much riskier if he can't service the loan in a depressed housing market.

daphne

Just out of interest - OP, what's your feeling on value in general for rent compared to where you've come from? Where have you come from? Estate agent/mgmt company blurb is just that - blurb and not necessarily accurate or representative. Have you looked elsewhere or even on daft and done a comparison of properties on there with where you are at the moment. It's like most things - there is usually bad value at both the extremely cheap and extremely expensive ends of the market. Somewhere in the middle is best value for money.

My feeling would be - don't have your head turned by furniture and frills in a place that you won't be living forever. Most important thing for most Irish renters (highly paid professionals included!) in an Irish rented property is how it's heated and whether you'll be frozen in winter with massive heating bills and wrapped in one of those blankets with pockets on the sofa!. There would definitely be a lower level of expectation than yours in this country regarding rental property standards, even in the more yuppified areas of Dublin - so be prepared. Rents in this country have never been higher for various reasons and supply is very low.  At best, you'll find landlords will do what is required of them by law - that goes for all standards of accommodation.

vmb

Been renting abroad for about 6 years, I do understand that the quality level of Dublin apartments is shockingly poor.

It's not only about price (supply shortage explains it), is more that a vast amount of apartments, and a lot of houses too, are in a very bad condition.

h0neybadger

I've just sent a registered letter to my landlord requesting the immideate installation of an Umbrella Stand post haste!

I shall allow him 48 hours to complete this, and if not completed, there shall be a follow up letter.

mrslancaster

The OP said he signed a 1-year lease in August and pays €3000 per month in rent.

Does the OP also have to pay this 1% Stamp Duty on the lease to Revenue as it's over €30,000 p.a?

http://www.thejournal.ie/stamp-duty-renting-3472330-Jul2017/

Just wondering when that's due - is it when the lease is signed?

minikin

mrslancaster wrote: »

The OP said he signed a 1-year lease in August and pays €3000 per month in rent.

Does the OP also have to pay this 1% Stamp Duty on the lease to Revenue as it's over €30,000 p.a?

http://www.thejournal.ie/stamp-duty-renting-3472330-Jul2017/

Just wondering when that's due - is it when the lease is signed?

Jesus Christ... penalised for getting ridden by the market... what a system!

OwlsZat

Taylor365 wrote: »

Always try before you 'buy'.

Did you not view the apartment?

Ads and estate agents will say anything to sell. That's basic business.

It's only the business of real estate and car sales. Can't really think of anything else you can be as "creative" with during the sale.