Do I need planning to put access through a back wall.

Tomal

Hi. Thinking of putting a doorway or opening in my backyard wall which backs onto a common green area in our estate for easy access for the kids to play and avoiding being on the road to get there. Do I require planning for this. We pay for upkeep of the estate although it has been handed over to the care of the council for maintenance. I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

BryanF

Planning required.

Gumbo

Planning required.
I recently sought out this info for a family member who subsequently applied for and was granted planning.

DOCARCH

I am going against both of the above!

If it's just a pedestrian gate, and it opens to a common/shared/public space, then no planning permission is required.

Tomal

DOCARCH wrote: »

I am going against both of the above!

If it's just a pedestrian gate, and it opens to a common/shared/public space, then no planning permission is required.

Thank you for all replies very helpful. The opening would be only a pedestrian opening directly onto a common green space that I pay subs to maintain, only a small doorway cut into a wall and a framed door placed. If needed planning would it be difficult to get. Regards

Gumbo

Tomal wrote: »

Thank you for all replies very helpful. The opening would be only a pedestrian opening directly onto a common green space that I pay subs to maintain, only a small doorway cut into a wall and a framed door placed. If needed planning would it be difficult to get. Regards

You could always lodge a Section 5 application to ask the council if planning is required.

I’ve applied for them on 3 different jobs over the last 2 years in 3 different LA’s in dublin, all were granted.

Tomal

kceire wrote: »

You could always lodge a Section 5 application to ask the council if planning is required.

I’ve applied for them on 3 different jobs over the last 2 years in 3 different LA’s in dublin, all were granted.

Thanks again, it is really appreciated. I will enquire as suggested.

BryanF

DOCARCH wrote: »

I am going against both of the above!

If it's just a pedestrian gate, and it opens to a common/shared/public space, then no planning permission is required.

Tomal wrote: »

common green area.. although it has been handed over to the care of the council for maintenance..

Docarch
If the op doesn't own what's in the other side of the boundary, how can they form an opening in the boundary without both parties consent

Is this covered in the exempted legislation? I've always had to apply for planning in this type situation

Pkiernan

Would be very foolish to proceed without planning.

Who will certify that the ope has been made safe by the way?

BryanF

Pkiernan wrote: »

Would be very foolish to proceed without planning.

Who will certify that the ope has been made safe by the way?

This is a garden wall. I'm sure a competent Builder will ensure the ope has pillars/ is sound

DOCARCH

BryanF wrote: »

Docarch
If the op doesn't own what's in the other side of the boundary, how can they form an opening in the boundary without both parties consent

Is this covered in the exempted legislation? I've always had to apply for planning in this type situation

If the land on the other side is public open space, then (generally) planning permission is not required for a pedestrian gate. Same applies to a pedestrian gate to a front boundary wall (to a public footpath/roadway).

Happens a lot in Dublin where you have back gardens/rear or side boundary walls on to grass verges or lane ways.

If the land is in private ownership, that's a different matter.

Not knowing all the circumstances, probably best to follow KC's advice and Section 5 it!

Tomal

DOCARCH wrote: »

If the land on the other side is public open space, then (generally) planning permission is not required for a pedestrian gate. Same applies to a pedestrian gate to a front boundary wall (to a public footpath/roadway).

Happens a lot in Dublin where you have back gardens/rear or side boundary walls on to grass verges or lane ways.

If the land is in private ownership, that's a different matter.

Not knowing all the circumstances, probably best to follow KC's advice and Section 5 it!

Again many thanks for taking time to help out. The opening would be a small door built to the standards, not a DIY job. Also it leads out to a common green area in a private estate, residents association etc but is not privately owned as the council has taken ground in charge. I pay annually to pay for upkeep of the common ground, the green, hedgerows common planting etc. Some of the houses have access to their backs with double doors but not onto green but onto road. Does any of this mitigate in my favour? Thanks again.

Gumbo

Tomal wrote: »

Again many thanks for taking time to help out. The opening would be a small door built to the standards, not a DIY job. Also it leads out to a common green area in a private estate, residents association etc but is not privately owned as the council has taken ground in charge. I pay annually to pay for upkeep of the common ground, the green, hedgerows common planting etc. Some of the houses have access to their backs with double doors but not onto green but onto road. Does any of this mitigate in my favour? Thanks again.

None of that matters. It whether the creation of a pedestrian entrance can be considered exempt or not. There will be increased traffic across the grass now with obvious damage and wear and tear so someone will have to maintain this.

If the council own the grass area, is it possible they are the other civil party that now owns half your boundary wall and thus a boundary wall agreement must be agreed?

As I said, I’ve encountered this issue many times over and they always end up going for planning.

Tomal

kceire wrote: »

None of that matters. It whether the creation of a pedestrian entrance can be considered exempt or not. There will be increased traffic across the grass now with obvious damage and wear and tear so someone will have to maintain this.

If the council own the grass area, is it possible they are the other civil party that now owns half your boundary wall and thus a boundary wall agreement must be agreed?

As I said, I’ve encountered this issue many times over and they always end up going for planning.

Thanks kceire. Are you successful in getting planning. What are the reasons someone would br refused and any tips in applying. Thanks

Gumbo

Tomal wrote: »

Thanks kceire. Are you successful in getting planning. What are the reasons someone would br refused and any tips in applying. Thanks

Reasons for refusal - unwanted precedent. Out of character with adjoining streets cape. Create an unwanted route.

Tips - you need drawings. The usual planning application materials. Get an application through validation and after that, you are at the mercy of the gods (Planners).

Tomal

kceire wrote: »

Reasons for refusal - unwanted precedent. Out of character with adjoining streets cape. Create an unwanted route.

Tips - you need drawings. The usual planning application materials. Get an application through validation and after that, you are at the mercy of the gods (Planners).

Thanks for info and advice. Here goes. Fingers crossed

Angry bird

Mercy of the God's, jaysus. I'm thinking planning required and I'm thinking could be a refusal.

Tomal

Angry bird wrote: »

Mercy of the God's, jaysus. I'm thinking planning required and I'm thinking could be a refusal.

You're probably right but won't know until try. I'll keep you updated.

DOCARCH

Angry bird wrote: »

Mercy of the God's, jaysus. I'm thinking planning required and I'm thinking could be a refusal.

Class 5 exempted development states the following is exempt:

The construction, erection or alteration, within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway, railing or wooden fence or a wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete.

As long as the gate is for pedestrian use, the gate does not open out (opens in to the property) and there is a public/open space on the other side of the boundary, I would (still) be of the opinion that what the OP wants to do is it exempt.

Note that if it is proposed to form a gate/gateway directly on to a public road, that's a different matter. Then the issue of pedestrian/traffic safety comes into play (and planning permission is required).

As I stated above, as I (or we) do not know the OPs exact situation, safer to suggest a Section 5 application, or, initially, the OP should try and speak with a planner in the(ir) local authority.

Poor Uncle Tom

DOCARCH wrote: »

Class 5 exempted development states the following is exempt:

The construction, erection or alteration, within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway, railing or wooden fence or a wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete.

As long as the gate is for pedestrian use, the gate does not open out (opens in to the property) and there is a public/open space on the other side of the boundary, I would (still) be of the opinion that what the OP wants to do is it exempt.

Note that if it is proposed to form a gate/gateway directly on to a public road, that's a different matter. Then the issue of pedestrian/traffic safety comes into play (and planning permission is required).

As I stated above, as I (or we) do not know the OPs exact situation, safer to suggest a Section 5 application, or, initially, the OP should try and speak with a planner in the(ir) local authority.

Agree completely with the added caveat that the OP should get a written opinion on it from a local professional who has inspected the site. Due diligence and all that plus it never hurts to have some back up if someone makes a complaint.