Where do all the various everyday brands stand in terms of quality?

NIMAN

As someone who can only admire high end watches and who could never justify spending money on one, where exactly do all the common, everyday brands you see in shops stand in terms of quality?

I have read that some are owned by bigger companies and might be the budget arm, or the middle or the high end of 'cheaper' brands.

I'm thinking the likes of Casio, Citizen, Timex, Pulsar, Accurist, Sekonda, Seiko, Skagen, Rotary, Storm, TW Steel etc.

Also, what are the thoughts on brands that started out making other products then moved into watches. Thinking the likes of Armani, Timberland, Lacoste, Fossil, Police?

Wibbs

Seiko for one can have very nice quality watches, equal to(and some might argue better in some models) than the often much more expensive Swiss stuff. In particular I'd be thinking of their mid range divers. Seiko are also more "in house" than many if not most Swiss brands in that they make pretty much everything themselves.

Of the more "fashion" brands like the Armani etc, I'd personally rate Fossil above the crowd as they're more into internal design than many others who just copy the more expensive brand models.

NIMAN

Would the likes of Fossil, Police, Lacoste, Timberland etc actually make their own watches or are they just rebrands?

Would you care to put the everyday brands in an order in terms of quality, or is that not possible?

Would some brands have cheaper models made in China for example, but make the more expensive models in different factories?

Wibbs

IIRC Fossil designs their own in house, but I'd reckon they and the rest are all Made in China.

But of the everyday brands I'd be looking at Seiko, maybe Citizen too. Casio G-Shocks are an icon at this stage and deservedly so. Very well bolted together.

NIMAN

afaik, likes of Seiko and Citizen are Japanese brands aren't they?

If so, would these actually be made in Japan? I would always associate things made in Japan as well-made. Maybe I'm being harsh on China, which most people would link to cheaply made, mass produced.

I often see 'Swiss made' listed on some watches. Is this a bit of a misnomer now? Does it mean as much as it did maybe 50years ago?

bren2002

Really high end stuff
Patek Philippe etc
Rolex
Omega
Paneraii etc
Longines
Good Seiko
Tags, Raymond Weil, Oris
3rd party ETA movements
Seiko
Tissot
Casio
Citizen
Timex, Pulsar

The rest

Discuss

This is really broad stroke evaluation of an entire brand, of course examples can be found outside these positions. But this is my opinion of where a brand as a whole lies.

titan18

Some of the Seikos are good watches, but chances are they're not the ones you see sold in stores here. Out of the others, Citizen would be better than the others mentioned and Casio Gshock. The fashion brands are all awful watches, just ripping off a higher end design, and made in China, Vietnam etc. You're paying for the name there rather than a watch.

You'll need to look further afield for the better Seiko models, they have some great items sold just in Japan

bren2002

titan18 wrote: »

Some of the Seikos are good watches, but chances are they're not the ones you see sold in stores here. Out of the others, Citizen would be better than the others mentioned and Casio Gshock. The fashion brands are all awful watches, just ripping off a higher end design, and made in China, Vietnam etc. You're paying for the name there rather than a watch.

You'll need to look further afield for the better Seiko models, they have some great items sold just in Japan

I think Weirs have some high end seikos but your common or garden jewellers won't.

meeeeh

I know nothing about watches but a cousin of mine has licences and training to service high end watches and he is especially dismissive of fashion brand watches. I'm not sure Fossil is among them but others you listed are.

NIMAN

meeeeh wrote: »

I know nothing about watches but a cousin of mine has licences and training to service high end watches and he is especially dismissive of fashion brand watches. I'm not sure Fossil is among them but others you listed are.

Maybe thats understandable, but not everyone can afford to buy high end watches.

That's why I'm trying to get a feeling about the quality of the common brands for us lowlifes!

titan18

bren2002 wrote: »

I think Weirs have some high end seikos but your common or garden jewellers won't.

I'm more thinking of their Monster, some of their Prospex Kinetic offerings, MarineMaster, the SARB ranges (which I think are damn nice dress watches). Not sure many of them are sold in Ireland as far as I know.

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe thats understandable, but not everyone can afford to buy high end watches.

That's why I'm trying to get a feeling about the quality of the common brands for us lowlifes!

That's understandable, but depending on budget, there are some really nice affordable watches that aren't going into fashion brand territory. The likes of Daniel Wellington, Armani and Michael Kors can run from 2-500 euro. At similar prices, you can get (imo) better watches like some of the Seikos, Hamilton Khaki Field, some of the Steinharts, Hamilton Jazzmaster, Tissot Visodate, Orient Mako 2

meeeeh

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe thats understandable, but not everyone can afford to buy high end watches.

That's why I'm trying to get a feeling about the quality of the common brands for us lowlifes!

I know. I don't spend money on watches but I was advised to avoid fashion designer named watches (Kors, Armani, Karen and similar) because they are overpriced for what they are.

emo72

Seiko. Definitely Seiko, monsters were my start, then sumo and marine master. It's so easy to work this out. Does Seiko or citizen make clothes? No. They only make watches. Does Michael Kors make anything that they can put their name on? I think that's a yes. But you get the drift. I know Seiko and citizen make cheap watches, but it's still the best bang for buck you can get.

unkel

Are you interested in buying a very good watch for not so much money, NIMAN?

If so, give us your budget (any budget) and we'll give you some options

Important to differentiate between brands and watchmakers.

Fossil are an ODM, they make 80% of fashion watches worldwide. CK, Armani, Michael Kors, Skagen, Police etc. All made by Fossil. These are brands and what a brand does is order product from an ODM like Fossil and ask that their name/logo be printed on it. Brands or OEMs don't manufacture anything although they may contribute to the aesthetic design.

There are Chinese ODMs who sell catalogue watches. You go to one of the Asian watch fairs, browse their catalogue and pick a basic platform. Make some small customization to the clasp or dial. Ship the case and bracelet to Switzerland, install an ETA and boom - 'swiss made' watch. An example of this is Quondam, they are an Italian brand selling Chinese catalogue watches.

Seiko, Citizen and co are watchmakers. They manufacture almost everything - movement, bracelet etc - in house.

NIMAN

unkel wrote: »

Are you interested in buying a very good watch for not so much money, NIMAN?

If so, give us your budget (any budget) and we'll give you some options

Yes I have been thinking about treating myself, but then I wonder if I could justify spending a few hundred on a watch?

What do you think the best watch I could buy for say £300 (sterling) would be?

Style wise I don't like big watches, I have small wrists! Nothing overly dressy either, maybe more casual/sports/chrono look?

Not mad on divers either, sorry!

NIMAN

Deleted User wrote: »

Important to differentiate between brands and watchmakers.

Fossil are an ODM, they make 80% of fashion watches worldwide. CK, Armani, Michael Kors, Skagen, Police etc. All made by Fossil. These are brands and what a brand does is order product from an ODM like Fossil and ask that their name/logo be printed on it. Brands or OEMs don't manufacture anything although they may contribute to the aesthetic design.

There are Chinese ODMs who sell catalogue watches. You go to one of the Asian watch fairs, browse their catalogue and pick a basic platform. Make some small customization to the clasp or dial. Ship the case and bracelet to Switzerland, install an ETA and boom - 'swiss made' watch. An example of this is Quondam, they are an Italian brand selling Chinese catalogue watches.

Seiko, Citizen and co are watchmakers. They manufacture almost everything - movement, bracelet etc - in house.

Interesting, thanks for that.

saccades

Seiko is a little odd in that it has a watch for nearly every budget (Upto 500K if you include credor).

Use this to find a watch style you like http://www.watchsleuth.com/ then google the model number vs and see where auto-complete takes you.

NIMAN

Question to all you watch fanatics, have you any interest in smart watches, or would you always prefer to spend your money on 'traditional' watches?

bren2002

No interest in the slightest.

Omega owner.

Wibbs

I'd have an interest TBH. Like I always had in interest in the "first of the breed" in horology. Whether that be early wristlets or early pilots watches or early battery/electronic/quartz.

Wibbs

To expand a little on that N; I'd say I'm much more a dyed in the wool "futurist" than a "traditionalist", even when I buy old stuff. It might be old stuff now, but once it was the very latest cutting edge thing and that's what appeals to me the most. I'm not really one for nostalgia in that sense, or maybe I'm a nostalgic for the various times we thought X was the future and all that confidence that came with it. I find - and history shows - that the yearning for the traditional comes in times of flux and uncertainty, when the apparent and invented idea that it was great in the old days is in play. Put it this way, I'd not be likely to - well I just wouldn't - buy a brand new "traditional" watch that was running off the notion of the "authentic", just because it was mechanical from a brand name that was plugging the days of yore, because it sells in uncertain times. Especially as precious few if any actually are "authentic". But that's just me to be fair.

Eoin

NIMAN wrote: »

Question to all you watch fanatics, have you any interest in smart watches, or would you always prefer to spend your money on 'traditional' watches?

Tried one - I do like my gadgets. But it just wasn't useful enough to displace my other ones, but if I wasn't into watches I think I would see the appeal. Pretty handy for the gym; I'd say they've backed the right horse with the fitness angle.

Wibbs

With Apple's latest one that is autonomous and doesn't require carrying a phone as well, that should increase uptake too. Wristwatches wouldn't have taken off if you also had to carry a pocket watch with you to tell the time.

I can't see them affecting the mid to high end watch market so much. That's more a "jewellery" and collector interest market.

I think a smartwatch is something you own for a few years and then you'll want to replace it because it's the 'old model' that doesn't run latest OS, starts to bog down, battery doesn't hold much of a charge. Very much similar to the upgrade culture of phones.

Will there be enthusiasts/collectors who seek out and wear 'vintage' Apple Watches? I doubt it.

Now maybe you get a lot of enjoyment and functionality for those 3-4 years but for me it's destined to be electronic waste and I try to avoid that as much as possible.

Wibbs

I suspect the very first Apple Watch will be "collectible" in years to come, just like early digitals/quartz are collectible, but like them I'd also reckon it'll be a niche within collecting. Who knows though. I mean when I first started collecting "old watches" as a kid in the 80's the idea that mechanical watches would become the mainstream of what has come to be seen as "proper watches" would have seemed crazy.

titan18

Ya, no interest in smartwatches tbh. I've got a fitbit and stuff like, and a Garmin for running, but and wear the Fitbit and my own watch at the same time on different hands, but couldn't do that with a smartwatch

emo72

No interest in smart watches. My son had one. Not much fun charging it every night.

art

NIMAN wrote: »

Question to all you watch fanatics, have you any interest in smart watches, or would you always prefer to spend your money on 'traditional' watches?

Some makers, e.g Frederique Constant, Mondaine and some others, have models that have expanded on the normal functions of the watch to give "smart" type additions but in a traditional case etc. If a "watch" is simply a secondary screen for your phone though, it isn't really a watch!

art

NIMAN wrote: »

Yes I have been thinking about treating myself, but then I wonder if I could justify spending a few hundred on a watch?

What do you think the best watch I could buy for say £300 (sterling) would be?

Style wise I don't like big watches, I have small wrists! Nothing overly dressy either, maybe more casual/sports/chrono look?

Not mad on divers either, sorry!

Go in to Arnotts or Weirs (or Kildare Village) and look at Certina watches, especially ones marked "Precidrive": "precidrive" is a type of very high quality quartz movement that is vastly more accurate than a traditional quartz, and which you would normally pay quite a lot to have, but Certina is an undervalued brand (despite its heritage and Swiss-ness) so you can find precidrive models for under €400

Alun

emo72 wrote: »

No interest in smart watches. My son had one. Not much fun charging it every night.

Sadly now defunct, but my two Pebbles (Classic and Time Steel) only require charging once every 7 or 10 days respectively.

emo72

emo72 wrote: »

Seiko. Definitely Seiko, monsters were my start, then sumo and marine master. It's so easy to work this out. Does Seiko or citizen make clothes? No. They only make watches. Does Michael Kors make anything that they can put their name on? I think that's a yes. But you get the drift. I know Seiko and citizen make cheap watches, but it's still the best bang for buck you can get.

No. There are Seiko stamping machines at our offices!

art

and ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=955Ta6Blc10

o1s1n

I wonder will we ever see smart watched powered by an automatic movement?

Hmm, apparently not!

https://www.wired.com/2014/08/could-you-charge-a-smartwatch-by-shaking-it/

NIMAN

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No. There are Seiko stamping machines at our offices!

Don't they make calculators, electronic thesaurus etc

NIMAN

art wrote: »

Go in to Arnotts or Weirs (or Kildare Village) and look at Certina watches, especially ones marked "Precidrive": "precidrive" is a type of very high quality quartz movement that is vastly more accurate than a traditional quartz, and which you would normally pay quite a lot to have, but Certina is an undervalued brand (despite its heritage and Swiss-ness) so you can find precidrive models for under €400

Could you provide a link to the type of watch I might get for €400?

Thanks

art

Weirs have this precidrive https://weirandsons.ie/certina-ds-2-5825.html
Armotts website is a bit rubbish, they don’t advertise anything like their fill range, did see this standard one though
http://www.arnotts.ie/shop-by-department/men/accessories/watches-jewellery/certina/ds-podium-watch-silver/C0014101104700.html?dwvar_C0014101104700_color=Silver&cgid=shop-by-department-men-accessories-watches-jewellery#prefn1=brand&prefv1=Certina&start=1

If you're looking for something more sporty, watch shop has a sale on this one
http://www.watchshop.com/mens-certina-ds-podium-gmt-chronograph-watch-c0016391105700-p99948813.html
Or this ones cooler, a chronograph and precidrive for just over 400, that’s good
http://www.watchshop.com/mens-certina-ds-podium-precidrive-chronograph-watch-c0344171105700-p99998504.html?altproduct=1

NIMAN

First two a little plain, but I like their chronos, thanks for those links.

CarltonBrowne

This one sold on TZ recently for £300 (although apparently RRP is more like £599); I think it is wonderful.



I believe it's a DS-8 Moon Phase.

NIMAN

CarltonBrowne wrote: »

This one sold on TZ recently for £300 (although apparently RRP is more like £599); I think it is wonderful.



I believe it's a DS-8 Moon Phase.

Would this be a good buy, I'm chatting to the seller at present.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/mens-watches/certina-tissot-certina-ds-podium-/1266579002

unkel

If you like it, go for it!

About £380 new

linky


Personally I'd be inclined to go for an automatic watch, but I'm not into chronos, not sure if you could get anything like that in your budget

NIMAN

I see that link you provided shows RRP of 628, is that waffle?

NIMAN

@CarltonBrowne,

What is TZ?

art

CarltonBrowne wrote: »

This one sold on TZ recently for £300 (although apparently RRP is more like £599); I think it is wonderful.

I believe it's a DS-8 Moon Phase.

Was thinking of buying that myself just recently, it's €625 (ie euros) in Weirs with a leather strap which all in all seemed very good value. Then came across a deal on a ds-8 multi which I couldn't ignore. But that moon phase is indeed lovely

art

NIMAN wrote: »

@CarltonBrowne,

What is TZ?

uk watch forum - you need to join and post a fair bit before getting access to second hand sales

NIMAN

unkel wrote: »

If you like it, go for it!

About £380 new

linky


Personally I'd be inclined to go for an automatic watch, but I'm not into chronos, not sure if you could get anything like that in your budget

Would my linked Certina or this Tissue be the better buy for 200?

https://www.avforums.com/threads/tissot-pr100-gents-watch-new-%C2%A3230.2121711/#post-25461072

Thirdfox

Where was I when this discussion cropped up? (2nd honeymoon ) - £300 gets you a lot of watch - I would only say you're limited if you requested a budget of £30.

And similar to most of what others have stated - fashion watches are generally not of interest to people who like watches for a watches' sake rather than its brand appeal. But hey I know my sister's friends would be more excited about getting a MK or Gucci watch than a Longines...

I prefer mechanical over electronic watches though I can see the appeal of a good quality quartz or tuning fork movement.

So - what would I look at in the £300 range?
Japanese - Seiko, Citizen, Orient

Swiss - take a look at the micro-brands - maybe Steinhart, Borealis or even Tissot (a "budget" brand in the Swatch group - Swatch group owns Omega, Breguet, Longines. Hamilton, Mido. Certina(?) amongst others).

Russian - Vostoks cost around 50 euro.

Chinese - Sea-gull, Beijing Watch Factory, Shanghai watches... you can get a lot of a nicely made Chinese watches from these 3 factories - see a Beijing Beihai 5.0 - not an imitation of anything and pretty good QC. I visited the Sea-gull factory last year - a real treat and I even got one of their tourbillon watches (Swiss ones start at €1X,XXX - Chinese ones cost around €500 upwards).