Companies looking for cash payments

Baby01032012

I'm sick of this happening.

Most recently I had issue with pipes under house. Called out drain company. €100 cash for call out. Appeared to be broken pipes. Used cctv. €240 to clear out debris to have a better look and 50/50 chance it could be repaired and may need builder to dig up kitchen. In the end the repairs worked.€1500 to put in repairs. When I asked what the final total was it was rounded up to €1800. There was never a mention of cash.
They knew I'd approach insurer and they said they'd have to create invoice and add vat on. As it's wear and tear insurance won't cover it. I told him I'd give a cheque. No that was the cash price he claimed and he'd have to create a paper trail and add vat if I wanted to pay by cheque.

I had a refurbishment earlier this year spent €9000 and never saw an invoice despite asking for it many times.

I'm annoyed that every time I have to get work done it has to be done on the side. I have to pay tax USC Prsi on my earnings yet they're getting my cash in their back pocket.

I feel like reporting latest to revenue. Any thoughts.

Allinall

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I'm sick of this happening.

Most recently I had issue with pipes under house. Called out drain company. €100 cash for call out. Appeared to be broken pipes. Used cctv. €240 to clear out debris to have a better look and 50/50 chance it could be repaired and may need builder to dig up kitchen. In the end the repairs worked.€1500 to put in repairs. When I asked what the final total was it was rounded up to €1800. There was never a mention of cash.
They knew I'd approach insurer and they said they'd have to create invoice and add vat on. As it's wear and tear insurance won't cover it. I told him I'd give a cheque. No that was the cash price he claimed and he'd have to create a paper trail and add vat if I wanted to pay by cheque.

I had a refurbishment earlier this year spent €9000 and never saw an invoice despite asking for it many times.

I'm annoyed that every time I have to get work done it has to be done on the side. I have to pay tax USC Prsi on my earnings yet they're getting my cash in their back pocket.

I feel like reporting latest to revenue. Any thoughts.

Sort it out in advance.

Any reputable company will accept a bank transfer or debit/ credit card payment.

Cheques are out, though. They are so rare these days that anyone offering to pay by cheque is immediately viewed with suspicion.

Baby01032012

Allinall wrote: »

Sort it out in advance.

Any reputable company will accept a bank transfer or debit/ credit card payment.

Cheques are out, though. They are so rare these days that anyone offering to pay by cheque is immediately viewed with suspicion.

That wasn't really the point.

I could have paid by credit transfer. This "legit" company is doing jobs off the books and pocketing the cash.

meeeeh

Next rime ask before they start if the price includes vat. I have no doubt they prefer cash but it also depends who you work with. We always quote ex vat and charge vat on top because we mostly deal with other businesses who claim back vat.

EverythingGood

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I'm sick of this happening.

Most recently I had issue with pipes under house. Called out drain company. €100 cash for call out. Appeared to be broken pipes. Used cctv. €240 to clear out debris to have a better look and 50/50 chance it could be repaired and may need builder to dig up kitchen. In the end the repairs worked.€1500 to put in repairs. When I asked what the final total was it was rounded up to €1800. There was never a mention of cash.
They knew I'd approach insurer and they said they'd have to create invoice and add vat on. As it's wear and tear insurance won't cover it. I told him I'd give a cheque. No that was the cash price he claimed and he'd have to create a paper trail and add vat if I wanted to pay by cheque.

I had a refurbishment earlier this year spent €9000 and never saw an invoice despite asking for it many times.
I'm annoyed that every time I have to get work done it has to be done on the side. I have to pay tax USC Prsi on my earnings yet they're getting my cash in their back pocket.

I feel like reporting latest to revenue. Any thoughts.

You've also potentially lost out on making a claim on the home improvement revenue scheme on the €9k outlay

Baby01032012

meeeeh wrote: »

Next rime ask before they start if the price includes vat. I have no doubt they prefer cash but it also depends who you work with. We always quote ex vat and charge vat on top because we mostly deal with other businesses who claim back vat.

It's not about preferring cash. It's about criminal activity.

You charge vat. These see it as a handy excuse not to record the business. No corporation tax, vat or income tax.

meeeeh

Baby01032012 wrote: »

It's not about preferring cash. It's about criminal activity.

You charge vat. These see it as a handy excuse not to record the business. No corporation tax, vat or income tax.

But you don't want to pay vat either. They told you that then the price is 1800 plus vat. They should make it clear that the price is ex vat when quoting, I agree they are defrauding the state but you are not prepared to pay extra 13.5% or 23% or whatever it is either.

Baby01032012

meeeeh wrote: »

But you don't want to pay vat either. They told you that then the price is 1800 plus vat. They should make it clear that the price is ex vat when quoting, I agree they are defrauding the state but you are not pretend to pay extra 13.5% or 23% or whatever it is either.

I didn't say that. I was given a price which I assumed fairly was the final price which I agreed to. It's not about me not paying 13.5% it's them defrauding the taxpayer of their share of tax.

Will be reported to revenue tomorrow. End of.

ssmith6287

If quoting to a consumer is there not a law that requires the figure to be inclusive of VAT.

JimsAlterEgo

consumers prices should be quoted inc-vat

Baby01032012

ssmith6287 wrote: »

If quoting to a consumer is there not a law that requires the figure to be inclusive of VAT.

No but there is a law requiring registered businesses to declare all income and pay appropriate vat, corporation and income taxes instead of pocketing the cash directly into their back pocket.

ssmith6287

Baby01032012 wrote: »

No but there is a law requiring registered businesses to declare all income and pay appropriate vat, corporation and income taxes instead of pocketing the cash directly into their back pocket.

ok

meeeeh

Baby01032012 wrote: »

No but there is a law requiring registered businesses to declare all income and pay appropriate vat, corporation and income taxes instead of pocketing the cash directly into their back pocket.

You are right, they should issue you an invoice for 1800.00 + vat and you should pay it. Then there would be no tax default then.

Baby01032012

meeeeh wrote: »

You are right, they should issue you an invoice for 1800.00 + vat and you should pay it. Then there would be no tax default then.

Agreed, if it actually make them put the entirety of the invoice through their books and records and they paid their share of Vat, corporation, income tax.

Or even put €1800 incl. vat through the system. That's the price they quoted albeit expecting to get cash so they could back pocket it.

JimsAlterEgo

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/pricing/pricing_of_goods_and_services.html

Under the Prices and Charges (Tax- Inclusive Statements) Order 1973 all prices for goods and services available to the consumer must be inclusive of all taxes including Value Added Tax (VAT).

Former Former

meeeeh wrote: »

You are right, they should issue you an invoice for 1800.00 + vat and you should pay it. Then there would be no tax default then.

No. No. No.

If they issued a quote for 1800 then that quote has to include VAT. That's the law.

OP, you're dead right.

Baby01032012

Thanks guys appreciate your posts.

I've nothing in writing though to prove €1800 is the full quote. It was all verbal. After job was done he did up email for me for insurer which stated 1800+Vat. That was first mention of the price plus vat.

davo10

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Thanks guys appreciate your posts.

I've nothing in writing though to prove €1800 is the full quote. It was all verbal. After job was done he did up email for me for insurer which stated 1800+Vat. That was first mention of the price plus vat.

No doubt you will be returning the €235 to the insurer.

Former Former

davo10 wrote: »

No doubt you will be returning the €235 to the insurer.

Per the first post, it's not being covered by insurance.

sasta le

Cash is legal tender no?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

sasta le wrote: »

Cash is legal tender no?

That has nothing to do with the discussion on companies looking for cash to avoid declaring revenues.

MIKEKC

Allinall wrote: »

Sort it out in advance.

Any reputable company will accept a bank transfer or debit/ credit card payment.

Cheques are out, though. They are so rare these days that anyone offering to pay by cheque is immediately viewed with suspicion.

In business 45 years , always pay by cheque never any issue

Cordell

I have to pay tax USC Prsi on my earnings

Also you have to pay VAT on the goods and services you buy. Yes, that is you, not them, that are charged VAT. They only collect it for the taxman.
So when you accept a cash-in-hand no VAT price, you avoid paying the VAT, and they avoid paying the other taxes.

I'm not pointing fingers and passing blame, just telling. I have no standing in this, I'm paye paying all that to the taxman.

davo10

I absolutely hate when people charge me €235 less for their services. Ruins my day.

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

I absolutely hate when people charge me €235 less for their services. Ruins my day.

I don't like it when the state has to cut essential services due to rampant tax evasion in certain sectors of business.

davo10

L1011 wrote: »

I don't like it when the state has to cut essential services due to rampant tax evasion in certain sectors of business.

Do you not feel you are being fleeced anyway by the state without handing over more money for repairs on your house? I've paid cash to builders to cut the price, but I pay a lot more tax than you do.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

davo10 wrote: »

I absolutely hate when people charge me €235 less for their services. Ruins my day.

I hate it when people support the 'grey/black' economy.

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

Do you not feel you are being fleeced anyway by the state without handing over more money for repairs on your house? I've paid cash to builders to cut the price, but I pay a lot more tax than you do.

No, because I'm not a neoliberal. And its rather presumptive to assume you're paying more tax than someone you don't know.

I would have hoped I didn't need to remind a regular poster that encouraging fraud is not allowed here.

davo10

Jace Fluffy Babel wrote: »

I hate it when people support the 'grey/black' economy.

I know, we should all pay more vat. If you have loads, stand on your principles, but for small jobs on your house, save a few quid and spend it on the kids.

If your employer came to you one day and said "Hey John, your doing a great job, here's €235 cash" would you say, no, I'm not taking that, I want to pay 40% tax on it?

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

If your employer came to you one day and said "Hey John, your doing a great job, here's €235 cash" would you say, no, I'm not taking that, I want to pay 40% tax on it?

I'd want the pension contributions, ability for it to be reckoned for any calculations based on total salary and so on. That requires it to be paid by payroll. My employer also doesn't deliberately act to defraud the state.

Another reminder that encouraging fraud is not allowed here.



In the case of 9k work the OP had done, they would have got the VAT back under the HRI anyway.

davo10

L1011 wrote: »

I'd want the pension contributions.

Wow.

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

Wow.

Now that I think of it, you are aware that your scenario is rather pointless due to the Small Gift Exemption anyway?

davo10

L1011 wrote: »

Now that I think of it, you are aware that your scenario is rather pointless due to the Small Gift Exemption anyway?

You are aware that pension contributions are the best (and probably last) way of reducing tax on your income. You are getting the benefit of a pension and writing off 40%. The irony.

737max

davo10 wrote: »

I know, we should all pay more vat. If you have loads, stand on your principles, but for small jobs on your house, save a few quid and spend it on the kids.

If your employer came to you one day and said "Hey John, your doing a great job, here's €235 cash" would you say, no, I'm not taking that, I want to pay 40% tax on it?

I had almost that situation yesterday except my employer doesn't defraud the local tax office. I received an exceptional bonus of €2000 gross for some good work I did in the last few weeks. I will see less than half of that in my pay packet at the end of the month.

I've seen the other side too in the family business where the customer demands the ex-vat cash price for product that is being bought in through the books and must go through the books selling onward. You tell them you can't do that knowing that they'll find a more flexible competitor who gives them what they want ex VAT.
Tax evasion is ingrained in the psyche of many Irish people over many generations.

It's not right but shur isn't everyone at it so it can't be that bad...no wonder Ireland's national debt is nudging 200Bn Euro. cue whataboutery re: bankers.

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

You are aware that pension contributions are the best (and probably last) way of reducing tax on your income. You are getting the benefit of a pension and writing off 40%. The irony.

Legally. And I meant the %, not getting the inexplicable bonus (that was so low it could be given as a gift card under the SGE) as an employer pension contribution.

davo10

L1011 wrote: »

Legally. And I meant the %, not getting the inexplicable bonus (that was so low it could be given as a gift card under the SGE) as an employer pension contribution.

My point being, not everyone can afford to make pension contributions and make use of the 40% relief, some/maybe most, would appreciate the cash in hand.

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

My point being, not everyone can afford to make pension contributions and make use of the 40% relief, some/maybe most, would appreciate the cash in hand.

Says the person boasting about paying more tax yet being perfectly willing to defraud the state?

There is endemic tax evasion in certain business sectors in Ireland - it is not about a consumer appreciating a discount or the vendor appreciating a bit of cash in hand; it is outright robbery of every other tax payer.

davo10

L1011 wrote: »

Says the person boasting about paying more tax yet being perfectly willing to defraud the state?

There is endemic tax evasion in certain business sectors in Ireland - it is not about a consumer appreciating a discount or the vendor appreciating a bit of cash in hand; it is outright robbery of every other tax payer.

Not boasting, saying I give enough, and if a builder will do a job a couple of hundred € cheaper for cash, I apologise to no one for paying it. Your the knob saying I want to pay tax and pension contributions on a few quid. Good boy yourself.

L1011

davo10 wrote: »

Not boasting, saying I give enough, and if a builder will do a job a couple of hundred € cheaper for cash, I apologise to no one for paying it. Your the knob saying I want to pay tax and pension contributions on a few quid. Good boy yourself.

Do not post on this topic, or in this manner on another thread, again