smart meters for all

Stoner

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0920/906377-smart-electricity-meters/

5.5 over 20 years I wonder if we have one already

SemperFidelis

If you request one will you have to pay the €350 they currently charge for them or will it just go on the bill as 5.50 over 20 years = €110

bk

This is great news IMO. Should help a lot with things like EV's, battery backup systems (Tesla Powerwall), etc.

Stoner

bk wrote:

This is great news IMO. Should help a lot with things like EV's, battery backup systems (Tesla Powerwall), etc.

We should see reduced and increased rates for peak and off peak times

MaceFace

While the idea is good, and in some cases will help, I think most people will ignore them.
I've been part of the Electric Ireland smart energy program and have something installed at my meter which tells me how much I am using at any time and historically. After an initial interest in it, I don't think I have looked at it in many months. 
The issue is that Electricity use for most people is pretty static - there are very few items in a typical household that would spike usage that people would change behaviour if they knew. What is the value of this information to a consumer if they are not willing to react to it?

I suspect the real value is to ESB Networks as they can try influence behaviour by incentivising off-peak usage where possible etc.

bk

MaceFace wrote: »

While the idea is good, and in some cases will help, I think most people will ignore them.
I've been part of the Electric Ireland smart energy program and have something installed at my meter which tells me how much I am using at any time and historically. After an initial interest in it, I don't think I have looked at it in many months. 
The issue is that Electricity use for most people is pretty static - there are very few items in a typical household that would spike usage that people would change behaviour if they knew. What is the value of this information to a consumer if they are not willing to react to it?

In the next 20 years everyone will own Electric Vehicles, that will be the big one.

Ideally you want them to only charge when the price of electricity is low, either because it is off-peak or because the wind is blowing hard. EV's will be great at soaking up excess off-peak power and excess wind power.

The price of electricity will be set in 30 minute segments and EV's will be able to connect to the electric companies servers, see what the price for the next 30 minutes is and decide to charge or not depending on it's needs and price.

You could also see smart washing machines, dishwashers and tumble dryers. You load them up, but they only start when the price of electricity drops low.

It also might make home battery storage systems like Tesla Powerwall more feasible. Charge up when electricity is cheap and release it to the house when price is expensive.

Another area is the fridge/freezers might also get smarter and only fire up their pump when electricity is cheap.

MaceFace wrote: »

I suspect the real value is to ESB Networks as they can try influence behaviour by incentivising off-peak usage where possible etc.

Yes, that would be the initial low hanging fruit.

We already have night saver meters, but only something like 10% of people have them. And while they aren't suited to everyone, it is believed a significant amount of those 90% of people would actually benefit from them, but just don't know.

With these smart meters, after a few months of usage, they will get notified that they would have saved x amount on a nightsaver type tariff, would they like to change over and they can do so with just a click of a button, no new meter needed.

BTW interestingly, some members over on the EV forum found that their electric bill stayed the same and in some cases even went down when they got an EV! The reason being, most peopel who get EV's also get night saver meters and by also moving some activities like putting on the washing machine, dishwasher, etc. They found that while their electric usage went up, the cheaper night time rate balanced it all out.

SemperFidelis

If the PSO levy and the standing charges were included in the unit price instead of a fixed cost the smart meters would make more of an impact. As it stands the reduction in bills will be minimal with the current pricing structure. Maybe in the future it'll work out better and the price of electricity will change throughout the day and a fit will be paid to those exporting to the grid. Wait and see I suppose.

crossmolinalad

bk wrote: »

The reason being, most peopel who get EV's also get night saver meters and by also moving some activities like putting on the washing machine, dishwasher, etc. They found that while their electric usage went up, the cheaper night time rate balanced it all out.

My brother had a nightsaver meter and did make full use of it but after a dishwasher caught fire at nighttime and lost a child with it we make sure everything is switched off when go to bed or leaving the home since
So its not working for safety reasons in our household

bk

crossmolinalad wrote: »

My brother had a nightsaver meter and did make full use of it but after a dishwasher caught fire at nighttime and lost a child with it we make sure everything is switched off when go to bed or leaving the home since
So its not working for safety reasons in our household

crossmolinalad that is absolutely terrible and you have my genuine condolences.

But an electrical fire can break out at any time and it is why smoke alarms are so important.

This is why I'm planning to get some Nest Protect smoke alarms, detects both fast and slow burning fires quickly and interlinked to give you plenty of warning. But your caution given what happened is totally understandable.

crossmolinalad

bk wrote: »

crossmolinalad that is absolutely terrible and you have my genuine condolences.

But an electrical fire can break out at any time and it is why smoke alarms are so important.

This is why I'm planning to get some Nest Protect smoke alarms, detects both fast and slow burning fires quickly and interlinked to give you plenty of warning. But your caution given what happened is totally understandable.

Was 7 years ago
There were smoke alarms in the house but not in the utility room and the bedroom was above it
When the smoke alarms went off it was way to late
All doors were closed so fire had to burn trough the utility door first before the smoke alarm in the kitchen started working
My brother had build a new house now with a smoke alarm in almost every room

bk

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Was 7 years ago
There were smoke alarms in the house but not in the utility room and the bedroom was above it
When the smoke alarms went off it was way to late
All doors were closed so fire had to burn trough the utility door first before the smoke alarm in the kitchen started working
My brother had build a new house now with a smoke alarm in almost every room

Yes, this is why I actually have two smoke alarms in each room. One Ionisation type, one Photoelectric type, to catch both slow and fast burning fires.

Ideally they should be linked, so if one goes off in one room, they go off in all rooms, giving you more time. This is one of the reasons I'm planning to get the Nest Protects eventually.

Once you start looking into the details of smoke alarms, you quickly realise that what most people have is unfortunately inadequate.

Thanks for sharing your story. It shows the importance of having multiple smoke alarms, hopefully sharing your story will help others too.

strandsman

A guy told me recently that because they are smart meters they communicate with each other same way as phone signals work. he said the each meter gives an output of 15,000 mobile phones on at the same time. Apparently they were removed from houses in California in the 90's for the same reason.

wexfordman2

strandsman wrote: »

A guy told me recently that because they are smart meters they communicate with each other same way as phone signals work. he said the each meter gives an output of 15,000 mobile phones on at the same time. Apparently they were removed from houses in California in the 90's for the same reason.

15000 phones eh, at that rate the power required to run the meter will needs it's own power station itself.

I wouldn't be paying too much attention to what "a guy told me"

ted1

strandsman wrote: »

A guy told me recently that because they are smart meters they communicate with each other same way as phone signals work. he said the each meter gives an output of 15,000 mobile phones on at the same time. Apparently they were removed from houses in California in the 90's for the same reason.

Ignore him, he knows not what he speaks

Dardania

ted1 wrote: »

strandsman wrote: »

A guy told me recently that because they are smart meters they communicate with each other same way as phone signals work. he said the each meter gives an output of 15,000 mobile phones on at the same time. Apparently they were removed from houses in California in the 90's for the same reason.

Ignore him, he knows not what he speaks

forgetting power, what way is the data handled e.g. how frequently do these devices check-in? Are contemporary wireless data networks able to handle this volume of data? I know everyone has a smart phone nowadays which pings the outside world on a "push" basis, but to be fair, these smart meters will have telemetry transmissions to make...

sniperman

dont they give off some sort of radiation like mobile phones?if so i certainly would not want somthing like that in my house,overhead power lines can cause cancer if one lives under/near them,so for instance in a housing estate with say 40 homes all together,wont that be alot of harmful signal coming into that estate?

mikeymouse

I had a smart meter in the UK for a few years ,
it measured use of electricity and gas .
There was no need for someone to call and read the meters.
There was initial curiosity; like how much to boil a kettle or how much to fire up the heating on a winters morning.
I didn't change my habits.
I can honestly say I forgot about the thing altogether after a while.

Bacchus

strandsman wrote: »

A guy told me recently that because they are smart meters they communicate with each other same way as phone signals work. he said the each meter gives an output of 15,000 mobile phones on at the same time. Apparently they were removed from houses in California in the 90's for the same reason.

Seriously, taking anecdotal evidence from 20 years ago. Not that I think there's an ounce of truth in the 15,000 mobile phones "stat" but technologies evolve. Telecoms 20 years ago are 3/4 generations behind what is rolling out now.

Bacchus

sniperman wrote: »

dont they give off some sort of radiation like mobile phones?if so i certainly would not want somthing like that in my house,overhead power lines can cause cancer if one lives under/near them,so for instance in a housing estate with say 40 homes all together,wont that be alot of harmful signal coming into that estate?

If you're concerned, you should do some reading up from reputable sources because you really have nothing to be worried about. In fact, after doing a bit of research, if you are still concerned, my advice is to move to a remote woodland area because if the amount of (harmless) radio emissions coming from a smart meter is nothing compared to what's coming off of your mobile or whatever device you are posting on boards from. I don't know the specs of the exact meters they are going to install but I would expect that they will dial home a few times aday to push readings back to HQ. Now they could possibly be more frequent than that (to help quickly identify outages) but it will not be a constant connection (not that that would matter anyway).

Note I say "harmless" above because there is no evidence showing that the emissions from electronic devices affect biological tissue causing cancer or other health concerns.

wexfordman2

sniperman wrote: »

dont they give off some sort of radiation like mobile phones?if so i certainly would not want somthing like that in my house,overhead power lines can cause cancer if one lives under/near them,so for instance in a housing estate with say 40 homes all together,wont that be alot of harmful signal coming into that estate?

You need to stop being paranoid, or else, dump pretty much every electrical device you have (hence actually negating the need for a meter in the first place) and move to some remote part of Canada, or the black valley in Kerry.

sniperman

i dont think i should have to move anywhere.i dont think i should have to leave my home because of something thats been forced onto me,and as for other devices in my home giving off raditaion,i need them,i really dont need a smart meter.also there is no evidence these devices dont cause harm either.

wexfordman2

sniperman wrote: »

i dont think i should have to move anywhere.i dont think i should have to leave my home because of something thats been forced onto me,and as for other devices in my home giving off raditaion,i need them,i really dont need a smart meter.also there is no evidence these devices dont cause harm either.

Ok, I've not much to add really, you realise i wasn't being serious about you moving, I was simply pointing out the contradiction in you being concerned about some very very very dubious unfounded and tin foil hat information you got from "a guy", and your current use of existing system which operate in almost the exact same manner as the device you are concerned about.

Anyway, best of luck with it either way.

Btw, there is also no evidence that the grass in my garden does not cause me harm either, perhaps I should concrete it over...ooh but then again, there is also no evidence that concrete does not cause harm.

ted1

sniperman wrote: »

dont they give off some sort of radiation like mobile phones?if so i certainly would not want somthing like that in my house,overhead power lines can cause cancer if one lives under/near them,so for instance in a housing estate with say 40 homes all together,wont that be alot of harmful signal coming into that estate?

Overhead power lines don’t have never rung proven to cause cancer

wexfordman2

ted1 wrote: »

Overhead power lines don’t have never rung proven to cause cancer

Yah, but if you look what he said, he said "they haven't been proven not to cause harm". The same as grass

bk

sniperman wrote: »

i dont think i should have to move anywhere.i dont think i should have to leave my home because of something thats been forced onto me,and as for other devices in my home giving off raditaion,i need them,i really dont need a smart meter.also there is no evidence these devices dont cause harm either.

do you have some sort of mobile phone? It radiates far more "radiation" then smart meters ever will.

What are you typing this message on? I assume some sort of PC connected to wifi. Guess what, that wifi far more "radiation" then smart meters ever will.

Smart meters will use technology that is similar to what is in your mobile phone. Roughly once a day or so, it will connect to the mobile phone networks and send a very small amount of data over the mobile phone network to your electricity company.

It really is no different then a mobile phone, but even less significant as it is actually further from you and only activates once a day, while your mobile is on 24/7

BTW while the word "radiation" above might sound scary, it really isn't. We are all surrounded by radiation every day. Radiation from solar flares, radiation from the earth and stones under our feet. We are bombarded by radiation every minute of every day of our lives.

The question is how strong the radiation is. And devices like smart meters, mobile phones and wifi are all very weak sources of radiation with zero evidence that they have any impact on the human body.

Bacchus

sniperman wrote: »

i dont think i should have to move anywhere.i dont think i should have to leave my home because of something thats been forced onto me,and as for other devices in my home giving off raditaion,i need them,i really dont need a smart meter.also there is no evidence these devices dont cause harm either.

And here we have the truth of the matter. You don't give two hoots about radiation and probably know full well there's no risk. You just don't want a smart meter tracking your energy usage... for whatever reason... sticking it to the government I suppose?