Query about cancelled counselling sessions

Kurt101 · 20-09-2017 1:24pm #1

Hello,

I started going to a counsellor a couple of months ago. We were meeting once a week and I had gone for 2 weeks. She cancelled the session in week 3. I completely forgot about the week 4 session until she sent me a text message. Completely my fault, I rang to apologise.

However, I felt I wasn't getting much benefit from the sessions, so decided to stop going. The evening before the week 5 session, I contacted her to tell her I would no longer be going. She said that she had a 24-hr cancellation policy and would be sending me a bill for 2 sessions.

I was never made aware of the 24 hour cancellation policy until I told her I was no longer going. Am I liable to pay for the 2 sessions that I missed?

CeilingFly · 20-09-2017 10:29pm

Yes, is the simple answer.

You entered a contract - you failed to fulfil that contract.

As no cancellation policy was agreed, it would be assumed you are responsible for completing the contract.

24 hours notice is miniscule and highly unlikely a substitute client could be found. If you gave a week it would be different and once your appointment was filled you would not have to pay.

Kurt101 · 20-09-2017 10:43pm

CeilingFly wrote:

You entered a contract - you failed to fulfil that contract.

Thanks.

At what point does one enter a contract? Is it when you walk in the door? Or when you pay for your first session maybe?

jimmycrackcorm · 20-09-2017 10:49pm

Kurt101 wrote: »

Thanks.

At what point does one enter a contract? Is it when you walk in the door? Or when you pay for your first session maybe?

Good point. You can state that you didn't agree to any cancellation policy.
It's a bit much to be charging for cancellation when she felt free to cancel the third appointment.

L1011 · 20-09-2017 10:49pm

Kurt101 wrote: »

Thanks.

At what point does one enter a contract? Is it when you walk in the door? Or when you pay for your first session maybe?

When you agreed to the series of sessions

Tigger · 20-09-2017 10:51pm

Kurt101 wrote: »

Hello,

I started going to a counsellor a couple of months ago. We were meeting once a week and I had gone for 2 weeks. She cancelled the session in week 3. I completely forgot about the week 4 session until she sent me a text message. Completely my fault, I rang to apologise.

However, I felt I wasn't getting much benefit from the sessions, so decided to stop going. The evening before the week 5 session, I contacted her to tell her I would no longer be going. She said that she had a 24-hr cancellation policy and would be sending me a bill for 2 sessions.

I was never made aware of the 24 hour cancellation policy until I told her I was no longer going. Am I liable to pay for the 2 sessions that I missed?

no way she can enforce that on a value for money basis
she cancelled 3 and so that is the end

colm_mcm · 20-09-2017 10:55pm

L1011 wrote: »

When you agreed to the series of sessions

Without anything written down though, how could the counseller have a leg to stand on?

foxatron · 20-09-2017 10:55pm

How much notice did she give you when she cancelled week 3?

L1011 · 20-09-2017 11:01pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Without anything written down though, how could the counseller have a leg to stand on?

Contracts do not have to be written. If the cancellation policy is advised prominently enough on signs in the clinic or whatever that'd be entirely sufficient.

CeilingFly · 21-09-2017 8:31am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Without anything written down though, how could the counseller have a leg to stand on?

Now imagine this the opposite way - you call the doctor, make an appointment, take the day off work.
You arrive at doctor, doctor says too busy can't see you. You complain you had talen time off and made an AGREEMENT to see him, he replies "we did not have a written contract - call another day"

See?

Works BOTH ways.

sbsquarepants · 21-09-2017 8:37am

My stance would be - sending a bill does not equate to having that bill paid. I'd simply tell her send whatever invoice you like, but i'll be paying for the 2 sessions I attended, nothing more.
Yes you cancelled at short notice and that is a bit unfair, but so did she so that's very much a swings and roundabouts situation.
I wouldn't pay.

She's very unlikely to chase you for it and even if she did, it's far from certain that she would get anywhere with it, she's just chancing her arm. Ignore her.

CeilingFly · 21-09-2017 8:39am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

My stance would be - sending a bill does not equate to having that bill paid. I'd simply tell her send whatever invoice you like, but i'll be paying for the 2 sessions I attended, nothing more.
Yes you cancelled at short notice and that is a bit unfair, but so did she so that's very much a swings and roundabouts situation.
I wouldn't pay.

She's very unlikely to chase you for it and even if she did, it's far from certain that she would get anywhere with it, she's just chancing her arm. Ignore her.

what a wonderful way to conduct yourself with people.

Usually catches up on you at some stage.

davo10 · 21-09-2017 8:46am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

My stance would be - sending a bill does not equate to having that bill paid. I'd simply tell her send whatever invoice you like, but i'll be paying for the 2 sessions I attended, nothing more.
Yes you cancelled at short notice and that is a bit unfair, but so did she so that's very much a swings and roundabouts situation.
I wouldn't pay.

She's very unlikely to chase you for it and even if she did, it's far from certain that she would get anywhere with it, she's just chancing her arm. Ignore her.

Legally, yes she can follow you for the fees, but she will not go to the time, expense and effort of doing so. Cancellation policies are usually posted beside reception and/or on appointment cards. So op. This will not go any further than a few letters from her.

The down side for you of course is that you will not have access to that service again with her and if future councillors contact her about your treatment, no doubt it will be mentioned.

Wesser · 21-09-2017 8:50am

Pay up. Of course you owe her the money and you know it.

sbsquarepants · 21-09-2017 8:51am

CeilingFly wrote: »

what a wonderful way to conduct yourself with people.

Usually catches up on you at some stage.

Can you explain what exactly your issue is with not paying for services you don't receive?

Former Former · 21-09-2017 8:57am

Kurt101 wrote: »

Thanks.

At what point does one enter a contract? Is it when you walk in the door? Or when you pay for your first session maybe?

Realistically, I think you should pay for the session you missed. On a contractual and common sense basis, that's fair.

However, if you weren't informed of the cancellation policy, then she can't retrospectively apply new t&c to your contract so you're not liable for week 5.

So pay for one session, she'll probably be ok with that. Check all your correspondence for t&c first though. If you found her via a website, check that too.

Wesser · 21-09-2017 9:04am

Can you explain what exactly your issue is with not paying for services you don't receive?[/quote]

He booked them... and then didn't turn up.

You can't just book these services and then not turn up.

She has to hire a room etc and heat it.

You're paying these people for their time. Time is their product.
It's like stealing something from a supermarket and refusing to pay for it afterwards.

davo10 · 21-09-2017 9:18am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Can you explain what exactly your issue is with not paying for services you don't receive?

But the op had appointments which he didn't turn up to and cancelled short notice. If you book a hotel room and don't show up, you still get charged for it even though you didn't use the room.

sbsquarepants · 21-09-2017 9:27am

Wesser wrote: »

He booked them... and then didn't turn up.

You can't just book these services and then not turn up.

She has to hire a room etc and heat it.

You're paying these people for their time. Time is their product.
It's like stealing something from a supermarket and refusing to pay for it afterwards.

It's not like that at all.

"Time" is not their product - counselling is their product, she didn't receive any.

If you booked a table in a restaurant but cancelled the day before, would you be happy to pay the bill because they had to turn the heating on and "time" is their product - or would you argue that food, is in fact their product and since you didn't get any you'd like to politely decline the request for payment?

Would you also be more inclined to do the above if they had in fact cancelled on you the previous week?

I know I would.

OP - there is no way I would be paying this chancer - simple as that. You didn't get what she's charging you for, and even the sessions you did get you feel weren't in any way helpful.

Keep your money in your pocket!

L1011 · 21-09-2017 9:29am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's not like that at all.

It very much is.

The OP prevented them from being able to sell their time - during which counselling is provided - to anyone else.

The service was there for the OP to avail of - and nobody else - and they chose to not do it. They owe the money.

sbsquarepants · 21-09-2017 9:29am

davo10 wrote: »

But the op had appointments which he didn't turn up to and cancelled short notice. If you book a hotel room and don't show up, you still get charged for it even though you didn't use the room.

That's the obvious analogy - but you will have been informed of this at the time of booking - not at the time of cancelation. Hotels also tend not to cancel on customers at a moments notice! Plus in a hotel you are actually paying for the room itself- the counsellor you are paying for the counselling to take place in the room, that's a subtle but important difference - with the counsellor the room is neither here nor there, it's NOT what you are buying.

Cancel a hairdressers appointment for example, do you pay for it anyway? Cancel a doctors appointment, there are any number of appointments you can cancel without paying.

The fact remains she did not receive what she is being charged for, I would feel in no way obliged to pay, and I'd be happy enough to take my chances should she wish to pursue the matter, which I don't for 1 second think she would bother doing.

Wesser · 21-09-2017 9:33am

He never said that she cancelled at the last moment.!!!

Also restaurants are increasingly taking a non refundable holding fee when you book because of no shows.

And anyway ..... He didn't cancel!!!! He just didn't show up!!! If he had cancelled in time there wouldn't be an issue.

sbsquarepants · 21-09-2017 9:54am

Wesser wrote: »

He never said that she cancelled at the last moment.!!!

Also restaurants are increasingly taking a non refundable holding fee when you book because of no shows.

I really should eat out more:D

I'm sure they are obliged to tell you in advance that they are taking a non refundable holding fee. It's simply not good enough to decide after the fact of your cancellation that they are going to charge you.

If the OP had agreed in advance to a cancellation policy I'd say pay up, that's the deal you made.
But he hasn't - so don't. He didn't get what he is being charged for, there is no reason why he should pay. I wouldn't.

Wesser · 21-09-2017 10:01am

It he didn't cancel!!! He just didn't show up at all!!!

Also we still don't know.... as another poster suggested....if the t and c on the website or documents stated the policy.... most likely they did.

Yes restaurants inform you that it us non refundable.

Fundamentally... you can't just book someone's services and then do a no show. It's morally wrong. They could have gotten another client in to that slot.... especially in healthcare where there might be a queue and someone else with acute and severe mental health issues turned away!!

sbsquarepants · 21-09-2017 10:13am

Wesser wrote: »

Fundamentally... you can't just book someone's services and then do a no show. It's morally wrong. !!

If you missed a hairdressers appointment would you pay the bill?

What if you were booked in for an eye test, but got a puncture en route - would you cough up the price of the test anyway?

Wesser · 21-09-2017 10:17am

Yes I would!!
I recently was late for a hair appointment and when I arrived ( too late) i offered to Pay, they declined, their choice!!!
Of course I would!!!!!

sbsquarepants · 21-09-2017 10:26am

I have no comeback for that so.

You sir are a better man than I - I just wouldn't. I'd hazard a guess that I'm in the majority though.

I have a simple rule - I'll pay for the services I receive, and I won't pay for the ones I don't (unless I have specifically agreed to a cancelation policy of some sort of course) - I see no moral problem there.

jimmycrackcorm · 21-09-2017 10:35am

L1011 wrote:

Contracts do not have to be written. If the cancellation policy is advised prominently enough on signs in the clinic or whatever that'd be entirely sufficient.

Like those meaningless signs that attempt to absolve car park owners of any liability?

Wesser wrote:

Yes I would!! I recently was late for a hair appointment and when I arrived ( too late) i offered to Pay, they declined, their choice!!! Of course I would!!!!!

I think you're on your own with that.

Wesser · 21-09-2017 11:03am

I don't care if I'm alone!! And I dont y think I am!

The counsellor may have organised and paid for childcare for her children for the hour.
The hairdresser is an entrepreneur with skills and equipment and overheads. She turned down someone else who rang and asked if they could fit her in.... and then I didn't show!!!

I don't care what the contract says. You just don't treat people like that!!!!!

davo10 · 21-09-2017 11:14am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

That's the obvious analogy - but you will have been informed of this at the time of booking - not at the time of cancelation. Hotels also tend not to cancel on customers at a moments notice! Plus in a hotel you are actually paying for the room itself- the counsellor you are paying for the counselling to take place in the room, that's a subtle but important difference - with the counsellor the room is neither here nor there, it's NOT what you are buying.

Cancel a hairdressers appointment for example, do you pay for it anyway? Cancel a doctors appointment, there are any number of appointments you can cancel without paying.

The fact remains she did not receive what she is being charged for, I would feel in no way obliged to pay, and I'd be happy enough to take my chances should she wish to pursue the matter, which I don't for 1 second think she would bother doing.

Actually a Doctor can charge and many do before they will give you another appointment.

Yes you are paying for the counsellors expertise, but that expertise is provided in time slots, in other words appointments. The appointment time is the tangible measure for the charges applied, the same way a night is the measure of unit cost for a hotel. The op booked a time slot for treatment and didn't turn up.

All of this is moot anyway, the consellor will not follow up on this so the decision to pay is a moral one, the op can refuse or offer to pay for at least the session he didn't turn up for.

Professor Moriarty · 21-09-2017 11:20am

davo10 wrote: »

Actually a Doctor can charge and many do before they will give you another appointment.

Yes you are paying for the counsellors expertise, but that expertise is provided in time slots, in other words appointments. The appointment time is the tangible measure for the charges applied, the same way a night is the measure of unit cost for a hotel. The op booked a time slot for treatment and didn't turn up.

All of this is moot anyway, the consellor will not follow up on this so the decision to pay is a moral one, the op can refuse or offer to pay for at least the session he didn't turn up for.

Exactly. He bought an hour of their time. If he didn't use it then he should pay. But I can't see this ending up in the High Court.

Query about cancelled counselling sessions

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