Rotating tyres

MuddyDog

Was in for a oil change recently and dealership also said that my fronts have 4mm remaining and my rears have 6mm remaining. Should I rotate them? Car is FWD.

Del2005

Some argue for the better on the rear and some for having more meat on the wheels that wear most. But with that little thread and getting into winter I'd be replacing the 2 4mm ones at least.

grogi

MuddyDog wrote: »

Was in for a oil change recently and dealership also said that my fronts have 4mm remaining and my rears have 6mm remaining. Should I rotate them? Car is FWD.

It depends if you drive enough to wear a pair before them turn five years old.

If yes, then don't bother with rotating, just put a new pair at the back. If you don't, rotate.

Pkiernan

If you are replacing the 4mm (which I don't think you need to) ones, then put the new tyres on the rear and get them to out the 6mm up front.

Doesn't matter if car us front, rear or All wheel drive. New tyres should always be on the rear axle.

_Brian

Never rotate tyres as I like to buy two tyres a time rather than all four.

Also always put new tyres to the front.

Front tyres to nearly all breaking and all steering, that's where I want the new tyres.

grogi

_Brian wrote: »

Never rotate tyres as I like to buy two tyres a time rather than all four.

Also always put new tyres to the front.

Front tyres to nearly all breaking and all steering, that's where I want the new tyres.

With worse tyres in the front you know exactly where the grip limit is. When you have worse at the rear, you might end up in unexpected happy tail scenario.

Always put better tyres at the back.

vandriver

grogi wrote: »

It depends if you drive enough to wear a pair before them turn five years old.

If yes, then don't bother with rotating, just put a new pair at the back. If you don't, rotate.

What's the relevance of 5 years?

MarkR

Tyres have a kind of use by date. Will fail NCT after they are five years old by manufacture date.

grogi

vandriver wrote: »

What's the relevance of 5 years?

Rubber ages, mainly because of oxidation.

grogi

MarkR wrote: »

Tyres have a kind of use by date. Will fail NCT after they are five years old by manufacture date.

It won't fail. You'll get an advisory pass if it is older than 6 years though.

db

MarkR wrote: »

Tyres have a kind of use by date. Will fail NCT after they are five years old by manufacture date.

Not true, a fail advisory will be noted if older than 6 years but will not fail the NCT. At this stage the tyres should be replaced as the rubber will have degraded.

MuddyDog

Thanks. I'll prob just buy new tyres. Dealer is wanting to charge 130 per tyre fitted for Kumho KU39's (225/40/18). The tyres I currently have on (Conti Contact 5) have been on for the past 45,000kms and I've nothing bad to say about them. The Conti's on EireTyres are 105 per tyre whereas the Kumhos are 95. Can I just bring the car to a tyre place and get them to replace the tyres? Will the car need tracked again then?

tossy

MuddyDog wrote: »

Thanks. I'll prob just buy new tyres. Dealer is wanting to charge 130 per tyre fitted for Kumho KU39's (225/40/18). The tyres I currently have on (Conti Contact 5) have been on for the past 45,000kms and I've nothing bad to say about them. The Conti's on EireTyres are 105 per tyre whereas the Kumhos are 95. Can I just bring the car to a tyre place and get them to replace the tyres? Will the car need tracked again then?

Do yourself a favour and buy a proper trye like Michelin PS or Goodyear F1, you should get either online (tyreleader, camskill) or bricks and mortar (discount in blanch) for the kind of money your dealer wants for Kumhos.

grogi

MuddyDog wrote: »

an I just bring the car to a tyre place and get them to replace the tyres?

That's what they do, right?

Print the online price, get to your local tyre shop and ask if they can fit same tyre for €10 more. They will agree.

Will the car need tracked again then?

It the tyres don't show any sign of uneven wear, you're good.

Pkiernan

_Brian wrote: »

Never rotate tyres as I like to buy two tyres a time rather than all four.

Also always put new tyres to the front.

Front tyres to nearly all breaking and all steering, that's where I want the new tyres.

Really bad advice.

Just google it - it all becomes clear.

You need best grip in the rear in the wet. You cannot get out of a rear wheel skid, you can get out of a front wheel skid.

CiniO

Pkiernan wrote: »

Really bad advice.

Just google it - it all becomes clear.

You need best grip in the rear in the wet. You cannot get out of a rear wheel skid, you can get out of a front wheel skid.

Of course you can get out of a rear wheel skid. You just need some skills to do it, but it's perfectly doable for someone adequately trained.

Also as most newer cars have esp or other form of stabity control, rear wheel skid is much less of a problem comparing to what it used to be.

TheChizler

I've read a few places that you should periodically rotate front-to-back and back-to-front, while at the same time stating that you should always put tyres with better tread on the rear.

Aren't these two statements entirely contradictory (for front wheel drive at least)? The front will wear faster therefore the rear will always have deeper tread anyway. So never rotate would be the logical conclusion there?

grogi

CiniO wrote: »

Of course you can get out of a rear wheel skid. You just need some skills to do it, but it's perfectly doable for someone adequately trained.

And where Irish drivers should get some practice when a power slide in snow is considered a fireball?

Also as most newer cars have esp or other form of stability control, rear wheel skid is much less of a problem comparing to what it used to be.

True. But that is also very misleading...

There are limits to physics that even faster computers cannot cross. And when they can't, it typically is fatal.

If the ESP is kicking in, you're simply going far too fast.

Whoever started to spread this nonsense of putting new tyres on the rear in a FWD car should be shot. Better tyres always on the driving axle as this is the axle doing most work.

I don't rotate myself as tyres are expensive and I much prefer to change tyres in groups of two.

grogi

Marianna Happy Bride wrote: »

Who ever started to spread this nonsense of putting new tyres on the rear in a FWD car should be shot. Better tyres always on the driving axle as this is the axle doing most work.

I don't rotate myself as tyres are expensive and I much prefer to change tyres in groups of two.

Here you go. From people that know a bit about the grip and tyres...

http://kumhotyre.co.uk/kumho-news/should-you-fit-new-tyres-to-the-front-or-rear/

grogi

grogi wrote: »

Here you go. From people that know a bit about the grip and tyres...

http://kumhotyre.co.uk/kumho-news/should-you-fit-new-tyres-to-the-front-or-rear/

I don't care what they say its nonsense. I drive a powerful FWD car and it makes a big difference to have the gripper tyres in front from a power delivery, under steer, torque steer, stopping etc etc point of view. The front wheels are under far far more pressure and doing far more work than the rear, hence they wear at a much slower rate. In any case I'd rather kick the back out than understeer if it came to it but my car will not loose the back even with fairly worn premium tyres but the front does start to suffer as tyres wear.

MuddyDog wrote: »

Thanks. I'll prob just buy new tyres. Dealer is wanting to charge 130 per tyre fitted for Kumho KU39's (225/40/18). The tyres I currently have on (Conti Contact 5) have been on for the past 45,000kms and I've nothing bad to say about them. The Conti's on EireTyres are 105 per tyre whereas the Kumhos are 95. Can I just bring the car to a tyre place and get them to replace the tyres? Will the car need tracked again then?

I wouldn't be bothering to change the tyres yet, 4mm is only just past half worn could last you a long time depending on mileage. I always run tyres right down to the legal limit of 1.6mm, I'd probably get 8 or 9 months from 4mm to worn out on the front.

Casati

Get the Conti Sport 6 online, they better all round and will be cheaper than 130 each even if you have to pay 15 to get them fitted

grogi

Casati wrote: »

Get the Conti Sport 6 online, they better all round and will be cheaper than 130 each even if you have to pay 15 to get them fitted

The issue starts when a tyre has a fault and it is impossible to balance it.

If you get it at the tyre shop, they will just get another one from the stand. If you buy them online, you are out of your pocket to fit a replacement, wait for the returns etc.

grogi

Marianna Happy Bride wrote: »

I don't care what they say its nonsense. I drive a powerful FWD car and it makes a big difference to have the gripper tyres in front from a power delivery, under steer, torque steer, stopping etc etc point of view.

The difference is substantial for over-steer as well, which is much more difficult to recover from than under-steer.

Sure, a skilled race driver might prefer to have gripper tyres in the front to maximize the performance and I sincerely hope you had proper training. But Joe Average should put better tyres at the rear axle.

grogi

grogi wrote: »

The difference is substantial for over-steer as well, which is much more difficult to recover from than under-steer.

Sure, a skilled race driver might prefer to have gripper tyres in the front to maximize the performance and I sincerely hope you had proper training. But Joe Average should put better tyres at the rear axle.

No I haven't had training, I drove a rear wheel car for years and spent a significant amount of time going side ways (on purpose) and that was my training .

Honestly in a good few years driving my current car, and driving it hard even trying to lose the rear in wet roundabouts etc the only time its gone is when I had the cheap chinese tyres on it that were on it when I bought it. With premium tyres even worn down a fair bit the rear won't go, so I don't see why a person driving a more normal car at normal speeds needs to worry about the rear unless of course they have cheap tyres and then it doesn't matter if they are new or old.

On the other hand under heavy breaking etc which does happen in regular driving, or taking a turn a little too fast etc the front wheels will give way first so its far better to have the better tyres on the front as it is far more common for them to come under heavy stress in normal driving where as the vast majority of people will never loose the rear. Even pulling out at wet junctions etc its better to have better tyres to get the power down and not be sitting in the road with cars coming spinning your wheels.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I rotated the tyres on my previous car (Legacy 2.0i AWD) every 10,000kms religiously. The tyres I fitted 48,000kms are still on the car with 3mm on the front and roughly the same on the rear (my brother bought the car of me and was telling me as he measured them before the NCT last week) He is going to replace them in the next month or so before winter sets in.

The tyres are Imperial EcoSports (225/45/17)