VW engineer gets jail sentence and fine for software emission cheat

v240gltse

as the title says , heads are starting to roll in the USA but not Europe interesting isnt it ????

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/25/vw_engineer_gets_3yrs_for_emissionbusting_sw/

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/12/vw_engineer_state_witness_in_dieselgate/

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/08/volkswagen_software_again/

Why do people continue to buy cars from the VAG group when all the evidence is that they deliberately cheated

TBi

What’s more worrying is that it’s just a lowly engineer. When do we start seeing accountability by managers? The people who ‘ordered’ it done?

Dravokivich

He's only an engineer. I don't see why they've given him such a heavy fine. How much could he possibly have been on and how'd he benefit?

Its the people who made the decisions to implement them that should be pursued. Not someone who showed and produced a way in which it could be done.

GhostyMcGhost

v240gltse wrote: »

Why do people continue to buy cars from the VAG group when all the evidence is that they deliberately cheated

This plus how it was handled afterwards. A software update? Come off it. Peoples cars have been destroyed afterwards in terms of torque/power

If software could fix the emissions then there’d be no need for a cheat device in the first place. Personally i couldn’t justify giving them a cent, because i simply can’t trust them at all, GTI or no GTI

v240gltse

v240gltse wrote: »

Why do people continue to buy cars from the VAG group when all the evidence is that they deliberately cheated

Because most people (including myself) don't care. I'd have been far more surprised if they weren't using tricks to get around emissions tests, the only mistake they made was get caught. Remember that it benefited customers having the lower emissions as the cars were cheaper to buy and tax.

The Rape of Lucretia

v240gltse wrote: »

Why do people continue to buy cars from the VAG group when all the evidence is that they deliberately cheated

Why wouldnt they ? The number of people buying cars with environmental impact (distinct from their consequences on price and taxes) as a significant factor in their choice is minimal.
Hard to see (I dont think it has, had it ?) it having any real influence on their sales.
Had a couple, and would certainly buy again. This cheating issue is certainly not trivial from legal compliance, corporate governance, and environmental control aspects, but is way beyond the average on the ground consumer's decision making process.
Had a couple, and would certainly buy again - this issue simply not an influence one way or the other.

DaveyDave

People will stop buying VAG cars when they stop making some of the best cars on the market? Not saying they're the best but a lot of them are up there.

I ordered a Golf as it's one of the nicest and most refined of the hatchbacks, in my opinion. Personal preference comes into play too though as I know the Focus is regarded as a slightly better car to drive with slightly better handling.

What's interesting to me is that in the US they were buying cars back off people and offering good trades on newer cars while over here we got an update that turns your car crap? Some people were actually profiting from VW and some chose to keep their cars.

Also almost EVERY carmaker is cheating the system, not just VW. I personally don't care about pollution from cars because I know the likes of China and India are much worse.

I just want my car to run efficiently, maybe if a Tesla wasn't €100,000 or we didn't pay motor tax on zero emission electric cars more people would buy them, but until then I'll keep driving a normal car.

josip

TBi wrote: »

What’s more worrying is that it’s just a lowly engineer. When do we start seeing accountability by managers? The people who ‘ordered’ it done?

Soon enough. Oliver Schmidt is being held in prison and is facing 7 years.
Liang pled guilty under a pleas bargain where he testified against Schmidt.
Liang is not considered a 'lowly' engineer.
He's got 30+ years of experience with VW and was considered one of the few people outside of the management chain who fully understood what was being developed and why.

username?!

OSI wrote: »

Pretty ridiculous.
How many Toyota engineers and execs were jailed when people were killed by cars unexpectedly accelerating?
How many Ford or Bridgestone engineers were jailed when over 200 people were kill when Ford Explorers rolled or had exploding tires? In fact Ford have a history of deciding it was cheaper to accept lawsuits from people dying than actually fixing known faults with their cars. No one in jail.
The Chevy Cobalt that has killed over 90 people with a faulty ignition. They replaced the faulty part with a new one with the same serial number to cover up the issue. Any one jailed? Nope.

VW get caught lying about emissions, biggest fine in history and an engineer in jail :rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more.

As a software engineer, I can guarantee this engineer did not come up with this idea and was just asked to implement it by management pushing down orders.

The fact VW let this happen, instead of management take the fall would deter me more than the actual cheat software itself. Awful stuff.

josip

username?! wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.

As a software engineer, I can guarantee this engineer did not come up with this idea and was just asked to implement it by management pushing down orders.

The fact VW let this happen, instead of management take the fall would deter me more than the actual cheat software itself. Awful stuff.

No doubt that he was asked, but if you read a few of the reports from the case it's fairly obvious that he wasn't just an engineer following orders with no knowledge of what he's doing. I might be wrong, but from his title I got the impression that there was a team of engineers underneath him who would have done the actual implementation who haven't been brought to trial?

Any half competent engineer would know when they're being asked to do something that's illegal or unethical and most would have enough personal professional responsibility to do the right thing and say no.

The US management aren't getting off on this either, they're up next. That's the order that plea bargaining happens in.
The management in the chain of command who are resident in Germany are unfortunately less likely to be brought to trial.

cfuserkildare

Lauren Fancy Wagon wrote: »

Because most people (including myself) don't care. I'd have been far more surprised if they weren't using tricks to get around emissions tests, the only mistake they made was get caught. Remember that it benefited customers having the lower emissions as the cars were cheaper to buy and tax.

Getting caught is not a mistake!!!

Sitting back and saying " I Don't Care " is where the trouble starts!!

Where else have the VAG group cheated?

Have the dodged the results on Trucks? Boats?

All VAG diesels are now suspect!!

Remember, this is what started the major cities in Europe to want no diesels by 2025.

username?!

josip wrote: »

The US management aren't getting off on this either, they're up next. That's the order that plea bargaining happens in.
The management in the chain of command who are resident in Germany are unfortunately less likely to be brought to trial.

Well that is something. Either way the sentence is OTT.

cfuserkildare

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Getting caught is not a mistake!!!

Sitting back and saying " I Don't Care " is where the trouble starts!!

Where else have the VAG group cheated?

Have the dodged the results on Trucks? Boats?

All VAG diesels are now suspect!!

Remember, this is what started the major cities in Europe to want no diesels by 2025.

If the EU stopped introducing stupid emissions rules then companies would not have to find ways around them. I have no issue whatsoever with car companies trying to get around them, its what I'd be doing if I owned a car manufacturer.

I wouldn't care if VAG cheated every emissions test for every single vehicle they have sold it still wouldn't not stop them from being my favourite car manufacturer or stop me buying another one (I currently drive a VW also).

Cee-Jay-Cee

TBi wrote: »

What’s more worrying is that it’s just a lowly engineer. When do we start seeing accountability by managers? The people who ‘ordered’ it done?

Because of gravity...shít rolls down hill.

bladespin

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Getting caught is not a mistake!!!

Sitting back and saying " I Don't Care " is where the trouble starts!!

I don't understand your outrage, tbh I doubt if any VW buyers wanted the emissions tests or cared about the results or the cheat itself, didn't bother me and I've been driving VW for the past 6 years, apart from having a chuckle about the great VW getting busted I haven't spent another thought on the subject.

cfuserkildare

Yeh,
But once your car is downgraded to fall within legal emission levels, you will find that you have lost a fair percentage of power, and the engine will now have the same spec and output of a car that costs €10,000 less than you paid for it.

cfuserkildare

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Yeh,
But once your car is downgraded to fall within legal emission levels, you will find that you have lost a fair percentage of power, and the engine will now have the same spec and output of a car that costs €10,000 less than you paid for it.

If you get the software update

Also I don't believe there is actually much of a downgrade in reality, its mostly scaremongering.

bladespin

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Yeh,
But once your car is downgraded to fall within legal emission levels, you will find that you have lost a fair percentage of power, and the engine will now have the same spec and output of a car that costs €10,000 less than you paid for it.

Not true, for the 2.0TDI Passat it made little discernible difference, feels exactly the same as it did before. You're under no obligation to have it done though.