Solicitor sharing information with client

ElKavo

I have recently gone through a very difficult time with a previous landlord. We had to take an RTB case against them and the RTB found in our favour and ordered the LL to repay deposit in full and also fined the LL. The LL was refusing to pay the deposit and set their solicitor on us without giving them the RTB determination order or any information relating to the RTB case. Once I supplied the determination order to the solicitor they must have advised the LL to pay the deposit. I had advised that I would pursue the deposit in full through court if required.

I do not want the LL to have my new address details in any way shape or form, (they really made our lives very difficult for a 6 month period prior to illegally terminating our lease) and I would be concerned that they will try something if they get our new address.

The LL solicitor has stated that they will have the deposit in the form of a cheque and I can collect but I must present ID which is fine but they are also requesting proof of address. Which they say they require for their records.

Are they aloud to pass this information on to their client?

How long are they allowed to hold this information on file?

many thanks

partyguinness

Looking for ID is one thing and fine but they really do not need proof of address. Maybe you are right to be suspicious in that the LL may try to harass you.

Did you use a solicitor when you went through the RTB? If so, ask them to request it on your behalf.

ElKavo

partyguinness wrote: »

Looking for ID is one thing and fine but they really do not need proof of address. Maybe you are right to be suspicious in that the LL may try to harass you.

Did you use a solicitor when you went through the RTB? If so, ask them to request it on your behalf.

I did not use a solicitor for the rtb or while dealing with the other solicitor. I knew the steps that I had to take and to be honest the deposit would have been eaten up very quickly if I had of contracted a solicitor. For us it was the principle of the thing.

The solicitors are very vague in their communication simply stating that they require the proof of address as per current Law Society Regulations. When I asked for their privacy policy and how my data will be stored and or shared they simply replied "If you have concerns, please review the Law Society Regulations which can be easily found on their website. All Irish law firms are required to follow established Codes of Practice, in line with said regulations."

partyguinness

ElKavo wrote: »

I did not use a solicitor for the rtb or while dealing with the other solicitor. I knew the steps that I had to take and to be honest the deposit would have been eaten up very quickly if I had of contracted a solicitor. For us it was the principle of the thing.

The solicitors are very vague in their communication simply stating that they require the proof of address as per current Law Society Regulations. When I asked for their privacy policy and how my data will be stored and or shared they simply replied "If you have concerns, please review the Law Society Regulations which can be easily found on their website. All Irish law firms are required to follow established Codes of Practice, in line with said regulations."

Ring the Law Society of Ireland and explain the situation. Email it as a complaint.

Also email the firm and tell them that if you do not release the cheque you will commence District Court proceedings without any further notice and the LL can pay for that too.

partyguinness

Does the RTB offer a facility to received monies and pass on?

Bottom line is that the LL is still in default.

ElKavo

partyguinness wrote: »

Ring the Law Society of Ireland and explain the situation. Email it as a complaint.

Also email the firm and tell them that if you do not release the cheque you will commence District Court proceedings without any further notice and the LL can pay for that too.

Is there a requirement under law society regulations to provide proof of address? I had a look at what is available under the law society website and i cant see anything clearly.

ElKavo

partyguinness wrote: »

Does the RTB offer a facility to received monies and pass on?

Bottom line is that the LL is still in default.

I have just asked the RTB and I await a reply. I have also contacted the law society but they are on lunch. I will call them back again after lunch.

jimmycrackcorm

ElKavo wrote:

Is there a requirement under law society regulations to provide proof of address? I had a look at what is available under the law society website and i cant see anything clearly.

Ask the solicitor to point out exactly where this proof of address required is documented.

Having said that, what for of id do you have that doesn't include your address?

partyguinness

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Ask the solicitor to point out exactly where this proof of address required is documented.

Having said that, what for of id do you have that doesn't include your address?

Passport I would imagine.

ForstalDave

ElKavo wrote: »

I have just asked the RTB and I await a reply. I have also contacted the law society but they are on lunch. I will call them back again after lunch.

Let us know what the law society say on i would be interested in their response and also how they will ensure proper care of these details are taken by members when GDPR comes into force

ElKavo

I will supply my passport.

ElKavo

ForstalDave wrote: »

Let us know what the law society say on i would be interested in their response and also how they will ensure proper care of these details are taken by members when GDPR comes into force

Well according to the lady on reception they don't offer advice but I'll get on to the complaints department and see what they have to say.

ElKavo

Law society = useless. Contact your own solicitor, you can only make a complaint about your own solicitor!

partyguinness

Being cynical, looks like they may be hiding behind Money Laundering Regulations to obtain your address.

Grolschevik

Chances are it comes under the legal requirements of the anti-money-laundering regulations, particularly if the funds are being channelled through a solicitor's firm's client account. It's part of their required anti-money-laundering due diligence.

How long can they keep the info? Five years.

Can they pass it on? Well, they certainly shouldn't, and would know this.

The full AML guidelines for solicitors aren't available to non-solicitors on the Law Society website. The nearest there is on the public section is here: https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Legal-guides/Money-Laundering-Your-Solicitor-and-You/

ElKavo

partyguinness wrote: »

Being cynical, looks like they may be hiding behind Money Laundering Regulations to obtain your address.

Grolschevik wrote: »

Chances are it comes under the legal requirements of the anti-money-laundering regulations, particularly if the funds are being channelled through a solicitor's firm's client account. It's part of their required anti-money-laundering due diligence.

How long can they keep the info? Five years.

Can they pass it on? Well, they certainly shouldn't, and would know this.

The full AML guidelines for solicitors aren't available to non-solicitors on the Law Society website. The nearest there is on the public section is here: https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Legal-guides/Money-Laundering-Your-Solicitor-and-You/

I feel this may be the case too. I gave the LL bank details to do the transfer but the solicitor is insisting on proof of address. The only reason that the proof of address is required is for a client on anti money laundering. I am not their client.

Grolschevik

ElKavo wrote: »

I am not their client.

The landlord is, though. If the funds are coming from the firm's account, then I'm pretty sure it's required.

If it's a personal cheque that the landlord just dropped off there for you to pick up, I'm pretty sure it's not required.

4.15 Some services and areas of law could provide opportunities to facilitate money
laundering or terrorist financing. For example:
 complicated financial or property transactions
 providing assistance in setting up trusts or company structures, which could be used to
obscure ownership of property
 payments that are made to or received from third parties
 payments made by cash
 transactions with a cross-border element

Mr. Incognito

Hi there.

AML is required for clients. NOT for the other side.

ID to verify is fine but they are NOT entitled to ask you for proof of address.

If you have any difficulties and want a solicitor to go through let me know

partyguinness

OP,

I guessing we are not talking about huge amount of money here and they are simply tasked with handing the money over to you and proof of ID should be sufficient.

The payment is on foot of on order from the RTB- there is absolutely no grounds to suspect any money laundering issues here.

I am guessing that you have not provided any address to them before so what are they comparing it to?

But the reality is you are stuck. They don't care and can simply hold on to the cheque and plead money laundering due diligence.

How long are you prepared to wait?

Do you have a regular solicitor whose address you could use?

ElKavo

Thanks for all the replies guys,

The RTB have said that You don’t have to give your address to the solicitor, or indeed the other party. You may ask them to make the cheque/bank draft/p.o. payable to you & to send it for the attention of the undersigned to the RTB:

PO Box 47
Clonakilty
Co. Cork.

Once I receive the payment I will contact you to confirm at that stage, where you wish me to issue same to.

I have passed these details on to the solicitor and now I await the reply.


I don't have a regular solicitor and it is a relatively small sum of money so hiring a solicitor to receive the payment would only reduce it further.

ElKavo

Ok, the firm have agreed to send via the rtb.

A small delay with post but I am happy with that outcome as opposed to the possibility of the previous LL somehow gaining my new address.

Just glad to put it all behind me.

Thanks all for your help.

Dial Hard

ElKavo wrote:

Ok, the firm have agreed to send via the rtb.

Glad you got sorted. I suspect the solicitor was applying rules to you that they're really only supposed to apply to their client.

About a year after my divorce my ex's solicitor emailed me asking for proof of my address for their records. I asked why they needed proof of my address when a) the matter was closed and b) my ex was their client, not me and they pretty much went "Our mistake, sorry, disregard."

Victor

Grolschevik wrote: »

Chances are it comes under the legal requirements of the anti-money-laundering regulations, particularly if the funds are being channelled through a solicitor's firm's client account. It's part of their required anti-money-laundering due diligence.

But, as it's the OP's deposit, it is their money, not the landlord's.

Grolschevik

Reading the guidelines, if it was an AML thing, it looks like an over-zealous belt-and-braces approach that would only have a basis in a particular interpretation of the terms 'potential client', 'third party', and 'beneficial owner'.

Or just an office management 'get all possible details from everyone we deal with' thing.

I did ask someone who holds themselves out as an AML expert, and they said the address criterion was a necessary factor in verification for any monies channelled through a solicitor's accounts, even for a non-client, but I can't see anything unequivocal in the Law Soc guidelines or the acts to back this up. Maybe it was in a practice note or something...

ElKavo

Just a follow up question on this, if seen as a seperate issue could a MOD break it out into its own thread. Thanks

So now almost 1 week on the RTB has not received the cheque posted by the solicitor. The solicitor says as far as they are concerned the matter is closed. How long is a reasonable amount of time for a cheque to be posted from Dublin? If no sign of the Cheque what are the next steps? 1. Contact solicitor again ask them to cancel the original cheque and reissue a new? (from their replies I cant seem them jumping at this) 2. Just move ahead with court proceedings against the LL and notify the solicitor of proceedings?

Cheers

Victor

If I'm correct, the RTB use an external contractor to deal with their mail (95% will be registration forms, etc.), so the turn around may be slower than one would expect.