Electrics for Camper Conversion

pjcarrow

Hi,

Just wondering what I need to add a leisure battery + inverter to camper conversion. Kits on ebay go from e25 to 100+. Varying ampage etc. I am no sparky.

I need the system to

- charge leisure battery (split relay)
- power 12V fridge, water pump, LED lights, stereo
- inverter for charging laptop & powering monitor (for working)

No need for land hook-up as I don't plan to spend tim e in campsites.

Any advice on what to look out for greatly appreciated. Can wire it myself just want to be sure I have correct stuff.

thanks
PJ

Split Charge & Battery Monitor

karmaan

im slowly learning from sir liamalot how to treat me leisure battery, might be too late to save my 110ah numax, bought two and a half years ago, only started to use my cetac charger about 6 months ago,its not charging above 13.2v. I have the factory charger turned off.
still a bit of life left in it.

Something not right there K. Either your voltmeter, battery, charger or observation.

CTEKs go to 14.7V these days, their low float maintenance feature goes to zero current 13.2v float after absorption. It's an AGM biased setting I find doesn't work as well with flooded batteries as a MorningStar solar controller.
It's a feature to protect very expensive batteries from working too hard...I just use flooded batteries that are one third the price and designed to work hard and I simply replace the coolant electrolyte periodically.


Ctek are reliable and better than average. My go to for ocassional use plug and play, no drama charging. I don't use them on my own systems but I do recommend them ocassionally.
A lot of the hype is just that, the hardware not the best value for money.

pjcarrow

Expensive

Fit for purpose.

karmaan

L
ill double check so,could be my meter, ( i'm a chippie), my understanding is, the battery goes downhill with poor charging management and is unable to recover to its original 14.8.
So is 13.2v after a 24hour charge on me ctek the best im going to get?

karmaan

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Split Charge & Battery Monitor

Its probably worth the money if the leisure battery lasts for a good few years

karmaan

karmaan wrote: »

Its probably worth the money if the leisure battery lasts for a good few years

Exactly not to mention the pleasure of it working for that time as opposed to watching a battery on the decline for 6 months before you call time.
My habitation battery is 3.5 years old is as good as new and hardly ever gets a break.

Having said that there's a cheaper way.

karmaan

karmaan wrote: »

So is 13.2v after a 24hour charge on me ctek the best im going to get?

13.2v is probably the resting voltage that the charger holds in float mode. Absorption stage should still reach the maximum threshold.

It takes ~70 hours on charge to fully charge a FLA and reverse all the soft sulphates. I don't trust any charger that finishes the same day you set it to work...it's a sign the product is designed to suit the customer and not the application.

Granted this is only the difference in the last 5% charge but this charge completion adds years to the service life of a lead acid battery.

karmaan

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

13.2v is probably the resting voltage that the charger holds in float mode. Absorption stage should still reach the maximum threshold.

It takes ~70 hours on charge to fully charge a FLA and reverse all the soft sulphates. I don't trust any charger that finishes the same day you set it to work...it's a sign the product is designed to suit the customer and not the application.

Granted this is only the difference in the last 5% charge but this charge completion adds years to the service life of a lead acid battery.

Grand
ill stick it on for a few days

Unfortunately doesn't work that way. the CTEK will throttle itself. So while it's better than nothing to leave on charge it's not the best.
If you can get a new cycled battery to specific gravity 1.275 per cell with a charger then that is the best you can get.

So far I've only seen one manufacturer do that and know also when to stop, that's MorningStar. They don't make mains chargers though..but there are ways....

Never fear though the Ctek has probably doubled the life expectancy of your battery over the stock charger maintainer.

pjcarrow

any thoughts on the use of Lithium Ion batteries?

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-10ah-relion-lithium-battery/

spaceHopper

pjcarrow wrote: »

any thoughts on the use of Lithium Ion batteries?

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-10ah-relion-lithium-battery/

you get 8 times the capacity for the same cost out of lead acid.

Glad you asked.
This is my opinion

Completely pointless for static applications. I only consider them where weight is an issue.

Lead acid is safer, performs better (if you take care of it), is less expensive, doesn't spontaneously combust (anywhere near as often). Is 98% recyclable.
It's biggest problem is it's 150 years old and ought to retire for the new generation
As far as I can see there's very little independently documented lifecycle data and a lot of claims and presales about lithium.
I've seen nothing inspiring from lithium outside of portable devices and electric drive.
Li-ion lends itself to a charge regime of a user who doesn't know what that means, this, fashionability and the weight (energy density) are the only advantages I can see.

There's no small scale off the shelf systems for leisure craft available yet. Everything I've seen on the domestic market I can do safer, more cost effectively, more robust and durable with lead acid.
Lithium needs cell balancing with failsafe isolation, cell temp monitoring, mechanical and incombustible containment. They go ICBM if charged sub-zero (cell temp) and they're generally more trouble than they are worth because lead acid charged correctly will outlive them.

I could build a li-ion hab battery and charge system....but I'm a natural sceptic and remain unconvinced.


110Ah @ 12V...recycle that!


The biggest argument in favour of Li-ion versus lead acid is by comparison to the dreadfully unfit for purpose, monitorless, battery killing systems that come as standard with factory fitment leisure craft.
They compare well to AGM but AGM has always been the anaemic unspillable cousin of FLA.

Honourable mention for the nay-sayers.



Equivalent to a 45Ah lead acid battery and with a €120 inverter & €70 charger saddled to it.

spaceHopper

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Honourable mention for the nay-sayers.

Equivalent to a 45Ah lead acid battery and with a €120 inverter & €70 charger saddled to it.

It cost and arm and a leg too.

Does have a solar charge controller too but I doubt it's very sophisticated...wouldn't need to be for li-ion and it can share the charger with the mains input secondary.

Li-ion is purported to last 3000 cycles with 60% discharge. Most proprietary industry standard charge parameters are designed to give 600 cycles.


Any engineer worth their salt would spec a 40% bigger battery with a 40% reduced cycle depth allowing for a fivefold life expectancy increase. But what would I know...

People vote for slimmer devices with their wallets hand over fist.

CJhaughey

If I was thinking about alternatives I'd consider an Efoy Fuel cell.
Prices are dropping and older units can be bought pretty reasonably.

Are they? Any links? They'd need to drop an awful lot to beat the competition. I only ever see them on swanky yachts. Difficult to get fuel and they're more of a trickle charger than a battery or a generator.

The most cost effective solutions in my opinion are solar PV, energy awareness, more solar PV, second alternator, bigger battery & mains charger in that order.

Split charging is inherently problematic, even if you spend mega-bucks offsetting the limitations with electronics you'll never do as well as two alternators. At the best of times they'll only ever give you 25% duty (charge to hab battery) with contactors and cable, even less with diodes.

CJhaughey

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Are they? Any links? They'd need to drop an awful lot to beat the competition. I only ever see them on swanky yachts. Difficult to get fuel and they're more of a trickle charger than a battery or a generator.

The most cost effective solutions in my opinion are solar PV, energy awareness, more solar PV, second alternator, bigger battery & mains charger in that order.

Split charging is inherently problematic, even if you spend mega-bucks offsetting the limitations with electronics you'll never do as well as two alternators. At the best of times they'll only ever give you 25% duty (charge to hab battery) with contactors and cable, even less with diodes.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Efoy-Pro-1600-/322665160936?hash=item4b2057a0e8:g:nPcAAOSw5l5ZmfDJ

autumnalcore

CJhaughey wrote: »

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Efoy-Pro-1600-/322665160936?hash=item4b2057a0e8:g:nPcAAOSw5l5ZmfDJ

Dont see how thats supposed to be cheap 40% of new price with as little as 30% of expected life left, probably no warranty vs 5 years for new.

That would buy a lot of solar Wh that would require no fuel and should out live it by decades.

Contaminated fuel can ruin a catalyst even a few ppm of contaminants cab damage catalyst in the long term so to achieve the life expectancy you're going to be paying an arm and a leg for fuel.

Hrmm what could I do with €1500.

2 x 60 Cell PV panels modified for 12v operation, 490W: €450
MorningStar TriStar Solar Controller with Temp Sensor: €140
Bogart Engineering Trimetric 2030 Battery Monitor: €250
Used Second 150A Alternator + Belt Installed: €150
40A CC CV Adjustable Switched Mode Power Supply and Solar Controller Hybrid Kit: €160
LED conversion: €150
Cable, Switchgear, Consumables: €200

Alternator Upgrade: 1kWh per hour
PV: 1.5kWh > 3kWh per day
Mains: 550Wh per hour.
Battery Monitor: +4 year battery life expectancy.

Ex-service Efoy 1600: 1.56kWh per day + upkeep.
I'd fit an Efoy when there's no room left for PV, the engine can't be run, wind isn't viable, mains isn't an option and battery payload is maxed...ie. on swanky yachts...:pac:

Anyone need a state of the art contactor?