A4 or 3 Series or Accord?

Rumple Stillson

Looking at one of these options for a second car which will be driven by myself, looking to spend around 5k on a 2007 to 2008 model. Open to either petrol or diesel, anyone have any thoughts? Fancy an estate version if possible.

Have not owned a diesel previously but driven plenty through work, whats reasonable mileage for a 10 year old diesel car?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Atlantic Dawn

No many of the Accord in estate version. I suppose if a diesel was used as intended it should have near 200k miles on it after 10 years.

Rumple Stillson

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

No many of the Accord in estate version. I suppose if a diesel was used as intended it should have near 200k miles on it after 10 years.

Would that suggest that a 10 year old diesel with less than 100k miles is best avoided?

rizzee

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

Would that suggest that a 10 year old diesel with less than 100k miles is best avoided?

Got my 08 318d in March, 103k miles on it. Had full service history and all i've done since then is got a service. Depends how well it's kept I guess

Rumple Stillson

rizzee wrote: »

Got my 08 318d in March, 103k miles on it. Had full service history and all i've done since then is got a service. Depends how well it's kept I guess

I guess when you buy a 10 year old car it's going to be a bit of a lottery but I'd still like to improve my odds.

Leonard Hofstadter

Don't buy a BMW unless there's plenty of service history, while any car should be looked after and serviced on time etc, it's especially true with BMWs, they will give you nothing but problems if you don't keep on top of them maintenance wise. Smashing cars to drive though and it has the clear advantage of being the only one with rear wheel drive. The Honda will be the most reliable, the BMW could have problems with the timing chain if you're looking at a diesel, try and find one that's had the chain already replaced.

Rumple Stillson

captainspeed wrote: »

Don't buy a BMW unless there's plenty of service history, while any car should be looked after and serviced on time etc, it's especially true with BMWs, they will give you nothing but problems if you don't keep on top of them maintenance wise. Smashing cars to drive though and it has the clear advantage of being the only one with rear wheel drive. The Honda will be the most reliable, the BMW could have problems with the timing chain if you're looking at a diesel, try and find one that's had the chain already replaced.

Thanks captainspeed for the heads up. What are the petrol engine 3 series like? Did have a 3 series touring a decade ago that did gradually disintegrate around me, but I did love driving it.

Skylinehead

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

Thanks captainspeed for the heads up. What are the petrol engine 3 series like? Did have a 3 series touring a decade ago that did gradually disintegrate around me, but I did love driving it.

I think the 4 pot petrols around that time have the same timing chain issue.

bazz26

You will be hard pressed to find a 2007/2008 decent example of any of them for 5k. Have a look at the Saab 9-3, should be some in your price range.

For example:


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/saab-9-3-2-0t-175bhp-vec-spt-auto-price-drop/16195239

Rumple Stillson

bazz26 wrote: »

You will be hard pressed to find a 2007/2008 decent example of any of them for 5k. Have a look at the Saab 9-3, should be some in your price range.

For example:


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/saab-9-3-2-0t-175bhp-vec-spt-auto-price-drop/16195239

Have seen 1 or 2 decent BMW options, zero on the A4 front or Accord. Not too gone on the Saab from a styling point of view but that's just a personal thing. Not wedded to the idea of an estate either. Seen a couple of nice IS250's with lowish mileage. Think I could stomach the tax for the comfort.

Leonard Hofstadter

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

Thanks captainspeed for the heads up. What are the petrol engine 3 series like? Did have a 3 series touring a decade ago that did gradually disintegrate around me, but I did love driving it.

I think there were problems with the coils for the 'Efficient Dynamics' ones to begin with (these are anything built after September 2007), although to be honest I haven't heard of any problems with them in ages, so I don't know now. The older models were generally fine, it was really the E46 (98-05) that had the timing chain and Valvetronic problems for the four cylinder petrols.

The diesels are fine apart from the timing chain though. The older ones (cars built before September 2007) are more reliable, just get the swirl flaps removed and the engines are pretty much solid out after that, I've seen photos on the E46 owners club on facebook of diesels with over 230,000 miles on the clock and still going strong. I'd get an automatic if I was getting a diesel, but if you go for a manual, get the clutch delay valve removed - a 15 minute job to take it out but makes a whole heap of difference to taking off plus it saves clutch wear for good measure.

In general BMWs are simply not going to be as reliable as Japanese cars - but if you look after them and fix anything as and when it comes up (you're talking about something that is 10-11 years old so something will go wrong every now and again no matter what the car is), they won't let you down.

CJhaughey

I'm driving a 7th Gen Accord estate for the last 2 years, bought it with 119k and its just over 154 now, Apart from servicing, I have put in a track rod end, need to do the 4 droplinks now and the front Lower control arm bushing both sides.
Exhaust manifold is cracked which is a common problem not that expensive for a spurious one piece version 90 stg or so plus labour to fit.
Apart from regular servicing its needed nothing else.
Mine is the Ex which has heated leather and built in Sat-nav which makes it nice in Winter.
Parts aren't that expensive if you shop around, Genuine Honda can be expensive in Ireland though.
I am averaging 47 on my 70 mile commute on country roads.

Rumple Stillson

Not too impressed with the options available in A4's, 3 series and Accords so thinking of expanding out my search somewhat.

Looking for saloon/estate of any make in the region of 5k. Looking for some power, comfort and reliability irrespective of the badge. I guess this opens the door to Laguna's, C5's, Passats, Insignia's etc..

If anyone would like to recommend a car in this bracket it would be greatly appreciated. Looking for some inspiration and will keep you posted.

CJhaughey

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

Not too impressed with the options available in A4's, 3 series and Accords so thinking of expanding out my search somewhat.

Looking for saloon/estate of any make in the region of 5k. Looking for some power, comfort and reliability irrespective of the badge. I guess this opens the door to Laguna's, C5's, Passats, Insignia's etc..

If anyone would like to recommend a car in this bracket it would be greatly appreciated. Looking for some inspiration and will keep you posted.

I had to go to the UK for mine, couldn't find one locally that fitted the spec.
They are pretty reasonable to bring in now as well.
08 will be 390 tax or on the cc system 994
Mk8 will be 570

Rumple Stillson

https://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen-Passat-2-0-TDI-S-140PS-05DR-AUTOMATIC/2951210236614296102

Any thoughts on the above? Appreciate any advice

bazz26

4k seems rather expensive to me for a base model 10 year old Passat. Also I'd want to see hard evidence that a 10 year old diesel Passat only covered 83k miles.

And if that car has the BXE engine code then I'd avoid as they have a reputation for conrods pushing through the engine block killing the engine.

Falcon L

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

Not too impressed with the options available in A4's, 3 series and Accords so thinking of expanding out my search somewhat.

Looking for saloon/estate of any make in the region of 5k. Looking for some power, comfort and reliability irrespective of the badge. I guess this opens the door to Laguna's, C5's, Passats, Insignia's etc..

If anyone would like to recommend a car in this bracket it would be greatly appreciated. Looking for some inspiration and will keep you posted.

I had an '08, mk 3 Laguna privilege, 2.0 diesel auto for 3 years. It had been 'warmed' to 180 horsies, so loads of poke. But even at the stock 150 horse, it was powerful enough.

I put up around 60k kms and it was faultless. Not even a light bulb to be replaced! Lovely to drive and all the toys, heated leather etc. I miss it, and would happily buy another one if circumstances allowed.

Rumple Stillson

Falcon L wrote: »

I had an '08, mk 3 Laguna privilege, 2.0 diesel auto for 3 years. It had been 'warmed' to 180 horsies, so loads of poke. But even at the stock 150 horse, it was powerful enough.

I put up around 60k kms and it was faultless. Not even a light bulb to be replaced! Lovely to drive and all the toys, heated leather etc. I miss it, and would happily buy another one if circumstances allowed.

http://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Renault/Laguna--2.0-DCI-PRIVILEGE-150BHP/754807692865043803

Something like this?

Ordinarily wouldn't consider a Laguna but they seem to have a good rep here.

Falcon L

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

http://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/Renault/Laguna--2.0-DCI-PRIVILEGE-150BHP/754807692865043803

Something like this?

Ordinarily wouldn't consider a Laguna but they seem to have a good rep here.

Yep like that, but with full black leather seats. Heated and electric adjustment.

Ignore the loons that say "but it's a Renault". Their motoring knowledge is seriously out of date.

murphthesmurf

http://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/BMW/3-Series-320-I-M-SPORT---GREAT-CONDITION--FULL-M-SPORT--SERVICED---NCT-D--WARRANTY--TRADE-INS-WELCOME--/2906033456685084766

Say no more.
For me petrol is far superior, if you don't mind the extra tax. I know I'll probably be burned at the stake for this, but it's true. No matter how good the deisel car is it'll still sound like farm machinery. If one of your main priorities for your second car is a bit of driving pleasure then petrol, if it is more practicality then the cheaper to run deisel.
The car I linked above isn't an estate I know, but I did a quick search while dodging work for 2 mins

bazz26

4 cylinder BMW petrol engines of that vintage are not exactly a driving please or particularly reliable. You would the 6 cylinder engines for that but they cost a bit more to run.

murphthesmurf

bazz26 wrote: »

4 cylinder BMW petrol engines of that vintage are not exactly a driving please or particularly reliable. You would the 6 cylinder engines for that but they cost a bit more to run.

I'd have to agree that the 6 cylinder would be the business. If the budget will stretch then the more cylinders the better. But even the 4 cylinder is a good drive. Good chassis, rear wheel drive and 150hp. Get a good one thats been looked after with fsh and low milage and I can't see the reliability being an issue. I'd much prefer the BMW over the Audi.
What are you looking for in it OP? You say a 2nd car, so is the 1st car a company car and this something nice for the weekend? Or does the other half take the 1st car and this will be your day to day?

bazz26

They still give their fair share of problems irrespective of mileage or condition, especially post 2007 ones including stretching timing chains, injectors and coil packs. If the OP is looking at petrol it would be hard to fault the Accord especially around reliability.

Rumple Stillson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I'd have to agree that the 6 cylinder would be the business. If the budget will stretch then the more cylinders the better. But even the 4 cylinder is a good drive. Good chassis, rear wheel drive and 150hp. Get a good one thats been looked after with fsh and low milage and I can't see the reliability being an issue. I'd much prefer the BMW over the Audi.
What are you looking for in it OP? You say a 2nd car, so is the 1st car a company car and this something nice for the weekend? Or does the other half take the 1st car and this will be your day to day?

The other half is taking our current car and I'll be using this day to day. Can't see myself doing more than 10k kilometers per year. I want something that's comfortable and enjoyable to drive, if I do decide to head for a spin at the weekend.

Initially before I began looking seriously I was thinking a petrol 3 series would fit the bill.

Test drove that Laguna this evening and an A4, both are diesel. Beginning to think diesel does not excite me and given my expected milieage petrol could be a better bet.

Rumple Stillson

bazz26 wrote: »

They still give their fair share of problems irrespective of mileage or condition, especially post 2007 ones including stretching timing chains, injectors and coil packs. If the OP is looking at petrol it would be hard to fault the Accord especially around reliability.

Thanks for the advice Bazz26, I actually decided against looking at the auto Passat.

I was drawn towards the Accord because of the solid reputation Honda engines have. Just haven't seen too many decent models.

Would consider a Civic as an alternative, seen a few decent 1.8 petrol versions in my price range. Whats acceptable mileage for a 1.8/2.0 ltr petrol car around the ten year old mark?

bazz26

10k to 12k miles per year is average miles for a petrol car, 15k to 20k would be average for a diesel car per year. But at 10 years old I'd focus on condition and any evidence of a good service history. Remember abused cars don't need to be driven far to be driven hard.

Brian?

Skylinehead wrote: »

I think the 4 pot petrols around that time have the same timing chain issue.

Not according to a BMW specialist I know. The petrol is ok.

Brian?

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

Thanks for the advice Bazz26, I actually decided against looking at the auto Passat.

I was drawn towards the Accord because of the solid reputation Honda engines have. Just haven't seen too many decent models.

Would consider a Civic as an alternative, seen a few decent 1.8 petrol versions in my price range. Whats acceptable mileage for a 1.8/2.0 ltr petrol car around the ten year old mark?

My wife drives an 2.0 petrol Auto Accord. Phenomenally reliable and we'll spec'd car. Nearly every auto Accord has full leather, climate control etc...

I'd happily own another one.

I wouldn't buy a 4 cylinder 3 series. They just feel flat. The 325i (the 2.5l one) is a lovely car to drive, decent amount of grunt. I'm currently trying to offload a 3.0i BMW X3, that engine is a joy to own but he'll to tax pre 08. It's €710 to tax post 08 though. Take a post 08 325i( it's a 3l for some reason), it's lovely.

bazz26

Problem is that you won't buy a post 2007 325i with cheap tax for 5k. The cheaper tax keeps the prices steady.

Rumple Stillson

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/mazda/mazda6/used-2008-mazda-mazda6-1-8-execut-offaly-fpa-2028733392104871171

Bit of a change of pace here but what is the verdict on the 1.8 petrol Mazdas. I accept they won't be too much fun to drive but I like the styling. Particularly in estate.

murphthesmurf

Most of the Japanese cars are bomb proof reliability wise. When the top ten most reliable cars are released each year, the top 3 are always japanese. Good reason too. Years ago I worked a casual job through an agency doing quality control at a place in the UK called Harada International. My job along with about 3 other guys was to inspect the plastic roof mounting that the aerial for the radio screwed into. They were destined for Honda cars. We used to inspect them with magnifying glasses. Every so often the owner of the company Mr Harada used to fly over from Japan to do an inspection. He used to bring his own magnifying glass with him from Japan. He would pick a random box, then ask us to take off the top layer and he would then pick a random sample. He would inspect thks, and then pick another from another box. If he found one slight in perfection he would have them all re-inspected. It always made me think, if they pay this much attention to this little plastic thing then what must they be like with the engine.
I had a 1994 Honda Prelude 2.2 V-Tec once, mint condition with about 35k miles on it. What a car, what an engine.

Rumple Stillson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Most of the Japanese cars are bomb proof reliability wise. When the top ten most reliable cars are released each year, the top 3 are always japanese. Good reason too. Years ago I worked a casual job through an agency doing quality control at a place in the UK called Harada International. My job along with about 3 other guys was to inspect the plastic roof mounting that the aerial for the radio screwed into. They were destined for Honda cars. We used to inspect them with magnifying glasses. Every so often the owner of the company Mr Harada used to fly over from Japan to do an inspection. He used to bring his own magnifying glass with him from Japan. He would pick a random box, then ask us to take off the top layer and he would then pick a random sample. He would inspect thks, and then pick another from another box. If he found one slight in perfection he would have them all re-inspected. It always made me think, if they pay this much attention to this little plastic thing then what must they be like with the engine.
I had a 1994 Honda Prelude 2.2 V-Tec once, mint condition with about 35k miles on it. What a car, what an engine.

I've owned a few cars over the years and have never had any issue with engines from Japanese car manufacturers. Not always the most pleasant place to be in or fun to drive but you can sleep well at night!

Rumple Stillson

So I'm looking at 2 cars tomorrow, hope to pick up one of them.

1st up is a 2.4 I-VTEC automatic, 2007 with 120k miles. Looks very fresh.

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/honda/accord/used-2007-honda-accord-2-4-i-vtec-galway-fpa-98748954443630606?SOURCE_ID=SOURCE_ID_AD_IN_VEHICLE_COMPARE

Next up is a 1.8 Mazda 6 estate with 110k miles, also looks good.

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/mazda/mazda6/used-2008-mazda-mazda6-1-8-execut-offaly-fpa-2028733392104871171?SOURCE_ID=SOURCE_ID_AD_IN_VEHICLE_COMPARE

I think the Mazda is the sensible choice but I'll base my decision on how they drive not how they look.

Anyone any preference for either? Both should be reliable if they have been well looked after I guess.

murphthesmurf

I'd bet money that once you drive the bigger engined car it'll be game over.
I had a Vectra 2.6 V6 SRI once. I sold it before moving to Ireland. A guy came to look at it, when he came round the back of the car he was surprised to see it was the 2.6 V6 and said he hadn't seen this in the advert (even though it was clearly stated). He said he didn't think he would be able to afford the insurance, but asked if he could test drive it. I agreed as lkng as I came with him. When we got back he said he had to have it but wanted to ring the insurance first. He was back within the hour with the cash. Said he'd never driven a car with an engine that big and he loved it.

Rumple Stillson

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I'd bet money that once you drive the bigger engined car it'll be game over.
I had a Vectra 2.6 V6 SRI once. I sold it before moving to Ireland. A guy came to look at it, when he came round the back of the car he was surprised to see it was the 2.6 V6 and said he hadn't seen this in the advert (even though it was clearly stated). He said he didn't think he would be able to afford the insurance, but asked if he could test drive it. I agreed as lkng as I came with him. When we got back he said he had to have it but wanted to ring the insurance first. He was back within the hour with the cash. Said he'd never driven a car with an engine that big and he loved it.

Haha...I'm getting insurance quotes for the Accord as we speak, just to see, its doable!

Still think the Mazda is the sensible option, I'll see how I feel sitting in them both.

CJhaughey

If you can get over the tax on the Accord its a different league to the Mazda, heated leather etc.
K24 is a good engine.

bazz26

That Accord is a Australian/New Zealand import I'd say as they never sold a 2.4 litre petrol here and the speedometer is in kph only meaning it's not a UK import.

What about a IS250?


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is-is-250-2-5-se-low-mileage-service-histo/16577593

Or a GS300 if you can stomach the extra motor tax:


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-gs300/16547364

murphthesmurf

bazz26 wrote: »

That Accord is a Australian/New Zealand import I'd say as they never sold a 2.4 litre petrol here and the speedometer is in kph only meaning it's not a UK import.

What about a IS250?


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is-is-250-2-5-se-low-mileage-service-histo/16577593

Or a GS300 if you can stomach the extra motor tax:


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-gs300/16547364

Might ge a Japanese import? There used to be quite a few of them in the UK at one time. A Prelude I yad was a Jap import.

Rumple Stillson

bazz26 wrote: »

That Accord is a Australian/New Zealand import I'd say as they never sold a 2.4 litre petrol here and the speedometer is in kph only meaning it's not a UK import.

What about a IS250?


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is-is-250-2-5-se-low-mileage-service-histo/16577593

Or a GS300 if you can stomach the extra motor tax:


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-gs300/16547364

Thanks for the heads up Bazza. Is it best to avoid an import from Australia/New Zealand?

Having gone into more detail on insurance, its looking like I would have to triple what I'm paying now to insure a 2.4ltr car. That's quite a lot.

bazz26

Insurance companies might be applying a higher premium on an Ozy import along with the usual Honda loading. They can have some odd specs and some parts could be different to what is available over here and hard to source. Car security might not be as good as you would get here too. The IS250 might actually be a bit cheaper to insure as it's non of the above and it's a smoother 6 cylinder engine.

murphthesmurf

The way this thread is heading, I think I've found just the thing. Suitable for your commute, around 150hp, great fun at the weekend.


https://www.bikeworld.ie/site/motorcycle/2007-kawasaki-z-1000/
😊




Disclaimer - following the above link may result in divorce / bankruptcy / lengthy hospital visit

Rumple Stillson

I am now the owner of a Mazda 6 estate!

Thanks to all for the advice, in the end I went for the sensible option, I have a few more years til my midlife crisis, hopefully there are still some not so sensible cars left to buy!