Securing laboratory position with undergrad degree

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I graduated last year with a 2:2 in microbiology from UCC. I've been trying to secure a job now since well before I graduated. I've been keeping track of things, and I've now applied for about 198 course related jobs online... since June of 2016. I've applied through the likes of gradireland, monster jobs.ie, irishjobs.ie. Of course I've also applied for quite a few other lab jobs in different ways too.

Because I've little lab experience outside college, I rarely apply for jobs that require more than "12 months experience". You don't really get many positions advertised, that effectively say no experience is needed. So even when it's 6 months experience that's needed, I'm still being told that I don't have the experience. But on the other hand, on the rare few occasions I've applied for 'lab assistant' positions, I'm basically being told that I'm over qualified. It seems there's no way of getting my foot in the door without a masters!

I have recently managed to find work experience in one animal testing laboratory, where I'm working my ass off three days a week for free, while holding down a job in Dunnes! It's a pity that this experience didn't come earlier in the year, and I'd get to know what value it holds. As well as this work experience, I’ve also have covered a month's lab work as part of a placement with the EPA. So in my cover letter, I always try and stress the two of these... the combined time of which fall far short of 6 months, but it's enough to make it worth a try!

However, in the animal laboratory, I'm not being given a lot of responsibility, and funnily it was mainly the previous (outgoing) work experience students that actually trained me up on the tasks I'm now doing! After much patient and carefully chosen questions, I've finally been given the straight answer from senior staff, that I won't be getting to carry out ELISA and PCR because they're "accredited". I fear experience only counts if you're getting paid! At that place, I don't know if I'm really any different to a TY student!

Thanks for reading

GalwayGrrrrrl

Most people I've met who work in labs have at least a MSc, most have a PhD and even then some find it hard to get jobs unfortunately. Would you be able to start studying for your masters? Even if you did it part time while job hunting or working in Dunne's you would be on your way towards your chosen career.

Sprog 4

Are you looking abroad? There are way more opportunities to work in labs in the UK than here.

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Thanks

Sprog 4 wrote: »

Are you looking abroad? There are way more opportunities to work in labs in the UK than here.

I tried all relevant companies on this:

http://www.oxfordsp.com/discover-the-park/#section11

Other than ProImmune (where you were), I got no response. I applied for two positions unsuccessfully at ProImmune. I made a few other applications elsewhere in England, including reterogenix, but no luck.

Are there any other companies I should be aware of?

Anyway, I just found an offer to UCD's biotech masters in my junk email and have until the 18th to accept that!

Gru

Out of all the jobs you've applied for have you stuck to purely micro related positions or have you tried generic analyst jobs as well? I work with plenty of people who have degrees only and only a few have masters or more. If you're looking for particular positions where you get to work with the kind of kit you used in college don't stress over it. You may need to get a generic QC job and move companies in time. Most of my college course is irrelevant in my current role.

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Gru wrote: »

Out of all the jobs you've applied for have you stuck to purely micro related positions or have you tried generic analyst jobs as well? I work with plenty of people who have degrees only and only a few have masters or more. If you're looking for particular positions where you get to work with the kind of kit you used in college don't stress over it. You may need to get a generic QC job and move companies in time. Most of my college course is irrelevant in my current role.

Yeah I've applied for the likes of bioassay, biotechnician positions too.

It's not that that I'm stressing over. More so that I haven't seemed to have been given a chance by anyone. I'm willing to do any lab job, but after 16 months with only 5 proper interviews, it might be time to throw in the towel and do the the masters. The masters has an industrial placement, where many of the students end up working with that company.

localscientist

Hi, I can give you details on this MSc. in UCD if you are still unsure. Unfortunately you'll find it near impossible to find a job with an undergraduate degree alone. Good luck!

Bitches Be Trypsin

Would you ever consider a biomedical science conversion course?

hanky2016

I really don't understand why people think a masters is Necessary for a job. I also did microbiology and graduated two years ago. I had a job by august with no masters degree.

Numerous friends of mine were horrified when I wasn't doing a masters and were all of the same mindset that it's necessary to have one. By the time they had finished their masters I had gotten a promotion and they are still at the same level.

paying €6000 just to rely on an industry placement that has no guarantee of being kept on is madness. There is plenty of jobs in the pharma industry at the moment.

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hanky2016 wrote: »

I really don't understand why people think a masters is Necessary for a job. I also did microbiology and graduated two years ago. I had a job by august with no masters degree.

Numerous friends of mine were horrified when I wasn't doing a masters and were all of the same mindset that it's necessary to have one. By the time they had finished their masters I had gotten a promotion and they are still at the same level.

paying €6000 just to rely on an industry placement that has no guarantee of being kept on is madness. There is plenty of jobs in the pharma industry at the moment.

That's what I wanted to believe too... and I'm not saying it's not true, just not yet for me. Well I got a 2:2. Maybe you had a 2:1.

Perhaps I was wrong not to go for the maters lat year (like everyone told me to), but I definitely sensed (like you say yourself) that those in my course who opted for the masters, were doing so for the wrong reasons. They be the sort who'd be too shy to pick up the phone to ring a company anyway.

Did you apply for jobs in a different way to me? Would love to hear who you had your interviews with if you'd please PM me. And where else there may be jobs available. I even offered voluntary work towards many start-up companies.

hanky2016

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

That's what I wanted to believe too... and I'm not saying it's not true, just not yet for me. Well I got a 2:2. Maybe you had a 2:1.

Perhaps I was wrong not to go for the maters lat year (like everyone told me to), but I definitely sensed (like you say yourself) that those in my course who opted for the masters, were doing so for the wrong reasons. They be the sort who'd be too shy to pick up the phone to ring a company anyway.

Did you apply for jobs in a different way to me? Would love to hear who you had your interviews with if you'd please PM me. And where else there may be jobs available. I even offered voluntary work towards many start-up companies.

just scraped a 2.2 myself. Never once was asked about my results. Completely irrelevant in my opinion.

I just applied online. no cold calling or volunteering/internship. have you tried applying for the smaller companies or contract lab companies such as CLS, Charles river or Eurofins?

localscientist

hanky2016 wrote: »

I really don't understand why people think a masters is Necessary for a job. I also did microbiology and graduated two years ago. I had a job by august with no masters degree.

Numerous friends of mine were horrified when I wasn't doing a masters and were all of the same mindset that it's necessary to have one. By the time they had finished their masters I had gotten a promotion and they are still at the same level.

paying €6000 just to rely on an industry placement that has no guarantee of being kept on is madness. There is plenty of jobs in the pharma industry at the moment.

Where are you based? You'll find this is the case in Dublin, and it seems you were lucky; I got a very high 1.1 and was employed straight out of my undergrad but went back to do my Masters degree as I knew it would get me further. I was the only person in my class to be employed in science after graduating. I think OP has demonstrated that they have tried, and they are being mature and proactive in deciding what the best next step is. I wholeheartedly agree that this Masters is the next best step.

As I said I have experience with this Masters and the employment rate is extremely high, I would guess 80% employed straight away if not more.

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hanky2016 wrote: »

just scraped a 2.2 myself. Never once was asked about my results. Completely irrelevant in my opinion.

I just applied online. no cold calling or volunteering/internship. have you tried applying for the smaller companies or contract lab companies such as CLS, Charles river or Eurofins?

Yeah. I've also tried small one like Silverpail, Team Horizon and Pinewood Healthcare.

Had an interview with Eurofins in January, where I was told that I came across very well, but I still didn't get it. Funnily, I haven't heard anything from their job I applied for since. It's like as if they realise that each cover letter I send in, is 80% identical! And actually, a girl in my course (who got a 2:2) managed to get a job there!

Applied for two jobs with CLS, one of which they've had advertised for over 6 months. I don't know how many people they can hire for one position! Anyway, I never hear back from them... or Colin O'Toole when I leave messages for him.

I've only applied for one with Charles River, but didn't hear anything

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localscientist wrote: »

As I said I have experience with this Masters and the employment rate is extremely high, I would guess 80% employed straight away if not more.

Ah, it's a shame! For a job I'm presently capable of doing... for a job that I'd be trained up from scratch on anyway. I just wanted to get my foot in the door. I don't want to be where I am in live because of a piece of paper. I would like to have been given the chance to demonstrate my hard work ethic. I just need some sort of a stepping stone to get started in life, and I'll find my own way from there with the ambition I have.

localscientist

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

Ah, it's a shame! For a job I'm presently capable of doing... for a job that I'd be trained up from scratch on anyway. I just wanted to get my foot in the door. I don't want to be where I am in live because of a piece of paper. I would like to have been given the chance to demonstrate my hard work ethic. I just need some sort of a stepping stone to get started in life, and I'll find my own way from there with the ambition I have.

Awh man I totally agree and I've been in situations myself where I know I'll be great but I'm pipped by someone else. Science is very much becoming a case of how many letters you have after your name unfortunately. You'll never ever be disadvantaged by your Masters and the cost is an investment in your future. Chin up, this time next year you'll be laughing!

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hanky2016 wrote: »

I really don't understand why people think a masters is Necessary for a job. I also did microbiology and graduated two years ago. I had a job by august with no masters degree.

Numerous friends of mine were horrified when I wasn't doing a masters and were all of the same mindset that it's necessary to have one. By the time they had finished their masters I had gotten a promotion and they are still at the same level.

paying €6000 just to rely on an industry placement that has no guarantee of being kept on is madness. There is plenty of jobs in the pharma industry at the moment.

Yes there's plenty of jobs, but there's not very many that don't request "1-2 years" experience. I think I've seen a very odd few that have "minimum of 6 months", so I just have to wonder what sort of jobs you were applying for? and on what job websites? I'd love to hear what company you're with if you'd be willing to tell me.

Anyway, I've started the masters. There's one module dedicated to careers and CV stuff. I figure that since all students will be encouraged to spend time perfecting cover letters, etc, (in order to secure their industry placements), that I can use that effort to help me try for jobs in the meantime. The course can be paid in 3 separate installments, so I figure that if I can get a job before the end of January (2nd fee due), I could drop out without very much lose.

But any potential hirers (having rang my references) would probably know that I'd be dropping a masters to join their company. So I hope that wouldn't be awkward!

sammyjo90

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

Applied for two jobs with CLS, one of which they've had advertised for over 6 months. I don't know how many people they can hire for one position! Anyway, I never hear back from them... or Colin O'Toole when I leave messages for him.

I've only applied for one with Charles River, but didn't hear anything

I used to work for CLS..they have rolling positions for contract analysts that are always open. They will keep your CVs for ages and have them on hold in case they dont find anyone they want. Mark ryan would be more of the person to talk to rather than colin...
But i wouldnt 100% tell you to apply there unless you are truely desperate to get industry experience

Pictures Of Lilly

Another one that bloody confuses me, are the constant references to GMP. I mean shouldn't it be GLP that their referring to? If one has worked in a lab that conformed to certain guidelines, then doesn't that mean you've acquired the bloody GMP. I worked part-time in a cheese factory for a number of years, and on a few cover letters I included:

"I have also gained GMP experience while working part time in a cheese packaging plant over a number of years." It was a job that didn't require a qualification.

So is this something I should try and sell in a cover letter, or will they see it for themselves on the CV?

sammyjo90

GMP encompasses a lot of different aspects..GLP is just one part of it..most important one in industry for me is GDP.. Regarding documentation practices(which depends on where u work whether you adhere to it or not).
If you have GMP experience write it down because they might think it didnt apply in that area

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Thanks

sammyjo90 wrote: »

GMP encompasses a lot of different aspects..GLP is just one part of it..most important one in industry for me is GDP.. Regarding documentation practices(which depends on where u work whether you adhere to it or not).
If you have GMP experience write it down because they might think it didnt apply in that area

So any lab I worked in gave me GMP? right!

sammyjo90

Not necessarily.. Not every lab needs to adhere to GMP regulations. It should be easy enough to find out if they did or not though

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sammyjo90 wrote: »

Not necessarily.. Not every lab needs to adhere to GMP regulations. It should be easy enough to find out if they did or not though

It's ridiculous. Just because the company is abiding by thee GMP guidelines, doesn't mean that I'm aware of how these effect the routines I'm carrying out! It doesn't make me a better scientist. For example the last place I worked at did adhere to GMP regulations (it was about to undergo an audit), so I guess that somehow means that I now have GMP experience!?

Gru

cGMP (current Good manufacturing practice) and GLP (Good laboratory practice) are somewhat interchangeable anyway depending on where the lab is located. If the lab is part of a manufacturing plant the GMP is probably the most relevant and vice versa.

Certainly referencing that you have GMP experience is worthwhile, cheese factory or not. It all has to live up to some standards.

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There's one thing I must ask you about! for anyone who knows. I see a mention of "experience in endotoxin and bioburden testing" on lots of jobs specs I come across. I presume you didn't have experience of this at the time you were being interviewed! Perhaps you do now though.

As I'm aware, endotoxin testing ensures that therapeutics are safe for human use, by revealing whether endotoxins are present or not. But unusually, I found it hard to find much about this topic online... yet it's in loads of job specs!

Do you ever carry out these tests? And is there anything I should have ready to say about them?

GalwayGrrrrrl

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

There's one thing I must ask you about! for anyone who knows. I see a mention of "experience in endotoxin and bioburden testing" on lots of jobs specs I come across. I presume you didn't have experience of this at the time you were being interviewed! Perhaps you do now though.

As I'm aware, endotoxin testing ensures that therapeutics are safe for human use, by revealing whether endotoxins are present or not. But unusually, I found it hard to find much about this topic online... yet it's in loads of job specs!

Do you ever carry out these tests? And is there anything I should have ready to say about them?

Look up LAL testing - lots online about that type of endotoxin test.

Protagonist

There's always hundreds of available lab positions in the country for people with laboratory experience. The vast majority being in QC. Heck, the small pharmaceutical plant I work in had about 5 openings this year alone.
Firstly make sure you're on Linkedin. A lot of jobs get posted there and you can directly contact the posters. Then have a look at this map http://www.getreskilled.com/pharmaceutical-jobs/factory-locater/ and locate all the pharmaceutical plants nearby. Send them CV's and cover letters or request to do two weeks work experience and work your way in that way. The majority of people we take on were once students that did their work experience here. Places are crying out for people with experience in HPLC and GC, so if you have the chance get some experience in that area. It'll put you miles ahead of anyone with a Masters without experience.

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Thanks Protagonist

Protagonist wrote: »

There's always hundreds of available lab positions in the country for people with laboratory experience. The vast majority being in QC. Heck, the small pharmaceutical plant I work in had about 5 openings this year alone.
Firstly make sure you're on Linkedin. A lot of jobs get posted there and you can directly contact the posters. Then have a look at this map http://www.getreskilled.com/pharmaceutical-jobs/factory-locater/ and locate all the pharmaceutical plants nearby. Send them CV's and cover letters or request to do two weeks work experience and work your way in that way. The majority of people we take on were once students that did their work experience here. Places are crying out for people with experience in HPLC and GC, so if you have the chance get some experience in that area. It'll put you miles ahead of anyone with a Masters without experience.

I reached out to a few places since May, offering free work without any luck. These included MSD, dairygold, Carberry, Astellas, Eurofins, amongst others. Eventually I got some work for free with the place I mentioned in this thread. Well they didn't offer me a job, and since I'm doing an MSc now, I'm hoping that if I get an offer, it'll be without work experience.

The strange thing about that work experience, was that they only took me on for 2 days a week. This meant that other staff never really knew what days I was in or out. I think if they knew I'd be in every day, they'd be more likely to include me in their work. And the second week I was there they took someone new on, who had worked there on work experience the yr before. She was in the same course and college as me except she graduated this yr (myself last yr).

I did not sense they were going to offer me a job, and I since resorted to plan B, by undergoing the MSc. I’ve included this fact in my CV, otherwise it’d look strange that I was on work experience for only a month and stopped. And I wouldn't want any potential hirers to find out about this MSc the wrong way.

Wanderer2010

Its a crying shame that science and engineering seem to be down the road of hiring only people with pHDs or Masters. I work in the engineering industry and I was extremely proud of my degree when I obtained it, now I'm in the job over 10 years and I am profoundly experienced, which counts for everything at the end of the day. I see some new hires with brains to burn but with very little common sense in the working world so extra letters don't automatically make a difference.

steddyeddy

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

That's what I wanted to believe too... and I'm not saying it's not true, just not yet for me. Well I got a 2:2. Maybe you had a 2:1.

Perhaps I was wrong not to go for the maters lat year (like everyone told me to), but I definitely sensed (like you say yourself) that those in my course who opted for the masters, were doing so for the wrong reasons. They be the sort who'd be too shy to pick up the phone to ring a company anyway.

Did you apply for jobs in a different way to me? Would love to hear who you had your interviews with if you'd please PM me. And where else there may be jobs available. I even offered voluntary work towards many start-up companies.

Lily you don't need a masters for a job. I wpuld consider emailing one of the micro researchers at UCD like Wim or Kevin (you know who I mean). Tell them you're trying to get experience and they might help you out.

sammyjo90

I have to say that ive found in the pharmaceutical sector that its experience that stands out over the level of education you stopped at.
The only reason i got a job after college was that my third year work placement happened to have HPLC in it.
You can have a msc or phd but if you have no practical experience it means nothing.
The bad thing about that is that companies wont't take on people for a short time.. Most students on work placement won't get trained on anything remotely advantageous because its just not worth the resources.
Its ridiculously unfair.
Cant get a job cause you're straight out of college and have no experience..can't get experience because noone will give you a chance to get any.
Knowing people who know people is the best way for the unexperienced to get their foot in. Again,ridiculously unfair.

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steddyeddy wrote: »

Lily you don't need a masters for a job. I wpuld consider emailing one of the micro researchers at UCD like Wim or Kevin (you know who I mean). Tell them you're trying to get experience and they might help you out.

No I don't know who you mean? I'm new to UCD. I don't know who they are but I'd love to hear more if you think they'd be worth contacting.

All I can say is that during my undergrad any lecturers I asked about employment knew nothing about actual industry. It was all talk about masters and PhDs. So that's why I'm surprised to hear you mention that.

Tylerdurex

Have you tried Sanofi in Waterford for a job ? They are always taking on lab staff