would u take the chance on bull beef.?

blonde10

I'm half thinking of bringing a few weanling bulls to beef.my plan is to buy in 400 kg bulls in about a month.And try get them fit for next May or June...haven't had bull beef before we would mainly have good forward stores..am I mad or is there money still to be made in bull beef...is there anybody here the brings continental bulls to 16/18 mts beef.. of is it a dead loss.

Bass Reeves

blonde10 wrote: »

I'm half thinking of bringing a few weanling bulls to beef.my plan is to buy in 400 kg bulls in about a month.And try get them fit for next May or June...haven't had bull beef before we would mainly have good forward stores..am I mad or is there money still to be made in bull beef...is there anybody here the brings continental bulls to 16/18 mts beef.. of is it a dead loss.

There are still lads at it, however in general winter finishing is under pressure and a dead loss. The processors have loaded the dice by paying some finishers contracted prices. This allow them to forward buy straights and cheaper feed products. In general if you are buying 400kg bulls now you will be going for 18 months -2years old bulls. With daily feed cost averaging up on 3/day for 150+ days with the risk of penalty's for bulls killing over 400kgs it is a real gamblers game.

Mooooo

The only people at it that I know buy in as calves, and kill under 16 month's. They buy both autumn and spring born fr

Cavanjack

blonde10 wrote: »

I'm half thinking of bringing a few weanling bulls to beef.my plan is to buy in 400 kg bulls in about a month.And try get them fit for next May or June...haven't had bull beef before we would mainly have good forward stores..am I mad or is there money still to be made in bull beef...is there anybody here the brings continental bulls to 16/18 mts beef.. of is it a dead loss.

You'd want to allow nearly 2 tonne of meal to get them finished under 16 months. Do some18- 22 month bulls here both dairy breed and continental's. Its tight enough but under 16 months would be tougher imo especially with the price of good weanlings at the minute.

patsy_mccabe

What is the price difference between under 16 and under 24 months?

Cavanjack

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

What is the price difference between under 16 and under 24 months?

You get paid on the grid with under 16 and get the 12 cent bonus if in spec.
So for under 16 months if base was 3.80 and a good continental graded u=3 you'd get 18cent extra plus the 12c bonus which would be €4.10 per kg.
At the minute If over 16 months and less than 24 you'd just get a flat price of 3.90-3.95 for a u grade.

blue5000

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There are still lads at it, however in general winter finishing is under pressure and a dead loss. The processors have loaded the dice by paying some finishers contracted prices. This allow them to forward buy straights and cheaper feed products. In general if you are buying 400kg bulls now you will be going for 18 months -2years old bulls. With daily feed cost averaging up on 3/day for 150+ days with the risk of penalty's for bulls killing over 400kgs it is a real gamblers game.

Bass has it summed up in 6 words.
It helps if you ;
have a market before you start
can use some home grown grain
have the right type of cattle at certain times of the year
can manage them so they don't fight/get injured/go lame.

In a nutshell bulls are good when cattle are scarce but are first to get a knock when cattle are too plentiful.

16 months is great if you can do it (I haven't BTW). It's a lot simpler if they are born on your farm. Bought in bulls tend to take a month to start thriving again after the stress of moving.

patsy_mccabe

The IFJ Tullamore farm is aiming for under 16 month bull beef and a price of 4.20.

Cavanjack

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The IFJ Tullamore farm is aiming for under 16 month bull beef and a price of 4.20.

That should be achievable for under 16 months if spring calving. They'll be fit in summer when beef price is highest. Think base price hit 4.10 this summer so that would leave a u= at €4.40 per kg or €1760 for a 400kg carcass.

Hard Knocks

Cavanjack wrote: »

That should be achievable for under 16 months if spring calving. They'll be fit in summer when beef price is highest. Think base price hit 4.10 this summer so that would leave a u= at €4.40 per kg or €1760 for a 400kg carcass.

For Jan/Feb born killing May/Jun, the bulls would be indoors from weaning, long time

For 400kg carcass the bulls would be approx 800kg, they'd want to be over 400kg at weaning

Cavanjack

Hard Knocks wrote: »

For Jan/Feb born killing May/Jun, the bulls would be indoors from weaning, long time

For 400kg carcass the bulls would be approx 800kg, they'd want to be over 400kg at weaning

Yeah long time to be indoors alright.
Good continental's can kill out at 60% so if you got them a little over 700kg LW they would be heavy enough. Again I've never finished under 16 month Bulls so am open to correction.

charolais0153

Cavanjack wrote: »

Yeah long time to be indoors alright.
Good continental's can kill out at 60% so if you got them a little over 700kg LW they would be heavy enough. Again I've never finished under 16 month Bulls so am open to correction.

Killed bull at 730kg. And ko was 430kg.
E grades are impossible to finish u 16 months.

Bass Reeves

I hear a lot about 58-60% K/O but in general U16 months these tend to be the exception. IMO if you are buying in bulls if they average 55/56% you are in the top end of the market. I know lads that specialize in it, but they are know as they spend 10 minutes looking at the right bull and are driven on the price.

Bulls come into the ring in general in singles. You be a long time picking up 10 of them not to mind 20.

Who2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I hear a lot about 58-60% K/O but in general U16 months these tend to be the exception. IMO if you are buying in bulls if they average 55/56% you are in the top end of the market. I know lads that specialize in it, but they are know as they spend 10 minutes looking at the right bull and are driven on the price.

Bulls come into the ring in general in singles. You be a long time picking up 10 of them not to mind 20.

Bass while your knowledge on dairy bred stock is good either you don't want to know or try to knock all suckler bred stock constantly. I've been watching what a few lads are killing under 16 around me. Everything is killing around 60% that has any bit of breeding. Once they hit 700 kilos everything is in the firing line once fat covers are achieved and animals regularly breaking 420 kg dead weight. The few I've killed here always killed well over 60%. I had a speckled park bull out of a black limo cow kill out at 65 % and that was with a dislocated hip. Killed 2 days before his 16 month birthday. 400 kilo bulls were selling between 1100- 1350 yesterday. All solid u grading jan born cattle, being bought by what I'd call shrewd operators.

furandfeather

I'd have done few down through the years mostly simmentals.
We would aim for 400kg+ weaning, 500kg at 12 months, build up to adlib and factory 100 days later roughly 700kg. Never less than 380 deadweight with the majority 400-420. Used to average 1.6 ton of meal from weaning to killing

Willfarman

a suckler farming friend of mine buys a few to join his own. He has it down to t and I am generally flabbergasted at the carcass weights for the age of the stock. I wouldn't attempt it myself because I honestly don't have the knowledge but all I know is I seen bulls he bought last fall @ under 1000 clear 1900 this June.

charolais0153

The bulls you buy hace tobe good . sold 2 bulls last year for same price and weight roughly and there was a big difference between dw

patsy_mccabe

I'd say lads breeding their own would keep forgetting to bring the tagger to the calving shed. :cool:

charolais0153

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I'd say lads breeding their own would keep forgetting to bring the tagger to the calving shed. :cool:

Talking avout that yesterday toa lad he says he tags tgem as theyre coming out of the cow you'd never get them handier again...

Who2

charolais0153 wrote: »

Talking avout that yesterday toa lad he says he tags tgem as theyre coming out of the cow you'd never get them handier again...

There's always going to be a few that mess with dates but less and less each year I see. Most of what will hit the marts in the next couple of weeks will be lads best performers. I know I haven't fed this autumn yet and my own are back well on weight. I know some stock that have been on ad lib since mid June. Most 100 kg ahead of mine. They were crazy for them yesterday . With a fair share making 800 with their weight.

Never wrestle with pigs

charolais0153 wrote: »

Talking avout that yesterday toa lad he says he tags tgem as theyre coming out of the cow you'd never get them handier again...

I do the same. I don't know how some lads face into it after a few weeks. To much of a risk with inspections now.

CloughCasey1

Have killed 4 u16 over last few yrs. All dairy bred and cost 350 as calves and finished out at 1370 ave at just over 15 mts. Only one failed to meet FS requirement. You need everything to go right with them.

CloughCasey1

charolais0153 wrote: »

Killed bull at 730kg. And ko was 430kg.
E grades are impossible to finish u 16 months.

Was that the CH with gammy leg? He was a flaking animal.

charolais0153

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Was that the CH with gammy leg? He was a flaking animal.

Ye

mf240

Seems to pay with top quality bulls. You'd wonder what weight you'd have if you kept those real good bulls to 24 months . But probably be penalized for the heavy carcasses.

Mooooo

blue5000 wrote: »

Bass has it summed up in 6 words.
It helps if you ;
have a market before you start
can use some home grown grain
have the right type of cattle at certain times of the year
can manage them so they don't fight/get injured/go lame.

In a nutshell bulls are good when cattle are scarce but are first to get a knock when cattle are too plentiful.

16 months is great if you can do it (I haven't BTW). It's a lot simpler if they are born on your farm. Bought in bulls tend to take a month to start thriving again after the stress of moving.

The lads i know that do it are our bale silage contractors, grow barley and outwinter some on kale as well. One is very fond of the autumn calf buys at circa 4 weeks and will have the autumn calf out in Feb with access to the shed. They also have all their spring calves bought by end of Feb normally bought straight off farms no mart. Have been at it for a good few years

Mooooo

Wrong thread

Cavanjack

mf240 wrote: »

Seems to pay with top quality bulls. You'd wonder what weight you'd have if you kept those real good bulls to 24 months . But probably be penalized for the heavy carcasses.

Know a lad killed 500kg bulls this summer when beef price was good. Got over €2k for them. No problem with weights or limits that time of the year.

patsy_mccabe

Cavanjack wrote: »

Know a lad killed 500kg bulls this summer when beef price was good. Got over €2k for them. No problem with weights or limits that time of the year.

They can always cut the steak in two.
I think you summed up Bull Beef there in the last sentence - you need to be selling when prices are highest, ie. cattle are scarce.