Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Superhomes opinions

  • 06-09-2017 8:02pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭ bleary
    Registered User


    Any experience or thoughts on the superhomes project? Worthwhile to get involved?. It's run nationally this year and aims to upgrade houses ber I've a small house with no cheat. Currently BER E
    http://superhomes.ie/application/


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭ roy rodgers
    Registered User


    I recently worked in a house that had this done.
    New back door and front door.
    Attic insulation
    Heat pump
    New hot water tank
    New stove
    New mechanical ventilation
    Cavity filled walls

    An absolute make over of the house it's has to have an air tightness test done now and must come under 5 .
    Cost wise I have no idea but it seems to be a great scheme.

    I Meant to also add that p.v solar and new radiators were installed here too


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,761 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel
    King Elon I


    bleary wrote: »
    Any experience or thoughts on the superhomes project? Worthwhile to get involved?. It's run nationally this year and aims to upgrade houses ber I've a small house with no cheat. Currently BER E
    http://superhomes.ie/application/

    Tipperary Energy Agency? WTF is that? Who is paying for this or is it a fully commercial entity?

    And is that a 10 tube system on the roof in the main happy family picture? That would just about heat the water for doing the dishes. What a joke.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BryanF
    Moderator


    It's real. I signed up for it last year. But it didn't suit me because when they're ready to go you need to have finance in place etc immediately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Daharmaster
    Registered User


    I participated in the scheme in 2015
    2,200 ft House was detached 1980s dormer, C3 rating. Very draughty and hard to maintain heated. €1.5k a year on oil, plus €800 electrical. Both occupants were out working during the day previously.

    Replaced oil fired boiler with ASHP to heat rads. Replaced one rad.
    New 300 l hotwater tank.
    Pumped cavities
    Air tightness and air sealing
    Attic Insulation
    Centralised mechanical extract for toilets, utility and kitchen/ living rooms.
    Sealing of over 60 spotlights
    Energy monitoring package

    Cost of works was around €20.5k which cost me around €11.5k. Had to pay around €15k upfront.
    TEA provide a grant through SEAI
    VAT recouped through RHI scheme
    Electric Ireland Energy saving credits all which amounts to nearly a 50% grant. Compared to the standard SEAI grant scheme it was a no brainer, if you wanted to energy efficiency upgrades.

    I had installed LED lighting, PV and a wood burning stove previous to the scheme. These could also be funded through the scheme.

    The result is an A3 BER with a massive increase in comfort in the house. Some rooms were not habitable in windy weather previously and I had issues with mould in the bathrooms. This is no longer the case and the house feels airy with a gentle heat from the ASHP and Rad system being on all the time at low temperatures. Now there are 3 at home all day, so if we had not done the upgrades the base utility costs for oil and heating quoted above are likely to have been much higher.

    The total bill for elec and heating was around €1,300 last year. With a change in supplier I think I can get this down to €1,000.

    The catch is you have to do some mandatory measures like ASHP, air sealing, replace open fire with stove etc. all these can add up to over €20k, so you have to be prepared to spend big to get the financial benefit.

    If you were doing a major house renovation on an old house, you could get all the windows and doors replaced with a grant that would not be available from anywhere else.

    TEA were fairly professional, not so much some the contractors they employed but we got there in the end.

    I think SEAI are bringing out a deep retrofit scheme now which could be similar.

    For the level of comfort we have now in the house the money I spent was well worth it with small children in the house irrespective of any energy related savings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭ roy rodgers
    Registered User


    Daharmaster. That's some achievement on energy savings. Did you get a ber done since the works??
    I here deep retrofitting houses to achieve an A3 is on the cards..
    I know what you mean with the contractors but I find there wasn't a main contractor to combine all the other trades together to achieve the end target is the problem. I suppose it comes down to better management.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 25,737 ✭✭✭✭ looksee
    Moderator


    Does the refund come as a cash refund or tax credits? If you are paying out of savings and not subject to much tax (pension) as with the SEAI scheme there is not much saving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭ Ryath
    Registered User


    In the middle of applying for this. Had initial survey and one contractor out to price.

    Early 80's bungalow 120m2 BER D2

    Proposed work
    BUILDING FABRIC UPGRADES
    • Full cavity bonded bead pump – up to 100mm
    • Topup attic with 200mm insulation to ensure 300mm throughout
    • Install walkways to DCV unit and cold water tank
    • Insulate and seal attic hatch
    • Insulate and lag cold water tank and attic pipework
    • Remove existing hot water cylinder

    AIRTIGHTNESS
    • Retrofit Airtight measures to achieve 5 air changes per hour.
    • Complete Airtightness. Test & include draft proofing and taping of doors.


    VENTILITATION
    • The supply & fit of the DCV ventilation system using - Aereco system
    • 1 no. V4A fan
    • 4 no humidity sensitive inlets
    • 1 no. permanent vents
    • 4 no extraction points (kitchen, utility, Bathroom, ensuite)
    • Rigid ducting and insulation
    • Installation and commissioning

    DOORS
    Munster Joinery with a u value of 1.4
    • 1 no. Ultratech front door unit with 2 full sidelights
    • Coloured PVC back door unit
    • Remove existing doors
    • Full replacement

    PRIMARY HEATING & CONTROLS
    Supply & Install of 1 no PUHZ-W85VHA- -BS complete with FTC5 controller
    Package will include:
    • 8.5kW (Monobloc) Outdoor unit
    • 300L insulated cylinder
    • FTC5 Controller
    • TF1 Magnetic Cyclonic filter
    • DHW sensor

    Other heating works include:
    • Installation of 7 Joule low temperature alu rads
    • Re-plumbing of heating system
    • Install 2 no. carbon monoxide alarms

    ELECTRICAL & MONITORING WORKS ELECTRICAL & MONITORING WORKS
    • Supply & fit. 1 no. MEL Cloud Wi-Fi interface
    • 1 no. Energy monitoring pack incl. 2 no. Elster meters, Sontex 440 heat meter and data storage pack
    o Melcloud energy monitoring
    • Replace all lightbulbs with low energy LED lightbulbs (does not include light fittings)
    • Install 8 panel PV system including all mechanical and electrical components
    8 x 270Wp = 2.16kWp Trinasolar MULTICRYSTALLINE
    • Install power diverter from PV to hot water cylinder were given no info on this

    Total cost of work is ~€44k 50% grant for achieving A3 standard
    Cost to us is €22k plus €2k fees so €24k total. Can claim Home Renovation Incentive on top of that.
    Way our payments and grants are structured we have to pay out ~€31k and get refunded €7k

    Think it's a good deal for us. Still trying to get my head around everything if they’re any changes worth pushing for. Doors are original and need to be replaced. Heating system plumbing is pushing 40 years old so new pipes will be ran down from attic. Should be able to mostly hide pipework down behind wardrobes and boxing out some of the skirting.

    Was wondering about going for a dearer heat pump but the Mitsubishi Ecodan seem fairly good?

    Proposed solar pv does seem at bottom end of the scale spec wise. Should I be pushing for 300watt panels and monocrystalline. Hoping to change one of the cars for an electric next year so I have that in mind. myenergi Zappi is the charger I have in mind but I’m wondering if I should look for the myenergi inverter too? I’ll get the electrician to install the RCBO and cable for the chargepoint an extra. Better to get it done now before access in the attic becomes harder with the extra insulation. Assume I can just stick an external socket on it for now?

    Still trying to get my head around everything. If was only a single upgrade I’d have researched it to the last and be able to make an informed decision. Harder now when there’s so much to consider and I just have to hope superhomes and the contracter are taking the correct options. Deadline for application is looming though and I need to commit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭ gooner99
    Registered User


    It sounds like a good scheme. Be interesting to see if the seai scheme will offer similar grants. It sounds like you get about 50% back along with being able to reclaim the vat.

    If you were building an extension at the same time would it also be included in the scheme?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭ Ryath
    Registered User


    gooner99 wrote: »
    It sounds like a good scheme. Be interesting to see if the seai scheme will offer similar grants. It sounds like you get about 50% back along with being able to reclaim the vat.

    If you were building an extension at the same time would it also be included in the scheme?

    The grant is from seai. So I'd imagine grants will be similar when it rolls out fully. As we all know bigger grants mean prices will go up.

    Not going to the get cost of extension in it but it does cover windows and wood burning stoves too.

    Really trying to decide if it's worth spending so much money. At €24k It's probably still good value to us, equipment and materials costs are about €21.5 I'd estimate. The heat pump, radiators and solar pv 75% of this. It's a lot to fork out in one go. Heat pump is a requirement of the scheme and solar pv is needed to get to A3 standard to get the full 50% grant.

    If we went for regular seai grants and did lower cost items we'd still have a lot of the benefit. Would be able to spread costs a bit as everything wouldn't have be done in one go.

    Rough calculations reckon it would be achievable for under €10k after grants to-
    Pump walls
    Up attic insulation to 300mm
    Replace front and back door
    Solar Thermal and new cylinder
    Upgrade heating controls
    Demand Control ventilation
    Improve airtightness.

    Real question is it worth spending the guts of €25k on everything in my original post?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,761 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel
    King Elon I


    Ryath wrote: »
    Solar Thermal and new cylinder

    I have this and it is working great. But we are a family of 5 (4 women) and we use a lot of hot water. If you don't, I wouldn't recommend it as even with the generous subsidy, pay back time is long and the system is not completely maintenance free (like solar PV)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭ Ryath
    Registered User


    unkel wrote: »
    I have this and it is working great. But we are a family of 5 (4 women) and we use a lot of hot water. If you don't, I wouldn't recommend it as even with the generous subsidy, pay back time is long and the system is not completely maintenance free (like solar PV)

    Outnumbered here too but only by 3 to 1! Have a few years till they are teenagers so water usage isn't too bad yet! I'm worse for long showers though than my wife. :o


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 59,761 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel
    King Elon I


    It's nice to have all that hot water heated up by the sun and everyone can have big baths and long hot showers and not feel guilty. It doesn't cost anything and it doesn't use finite resources and it creates zero emissions. We have a 2 bar pressure pumped shower and it is great :D

    Works far better than I expected even on very cold (but sunny) winter days like the last few days the whole 360l cylinder can be heated up to the set temperature of 50C (I boost it once a week to 60C with gas to kill any potential legionella - in summer I have it set to 60C)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭ gooner99
    Registered User


    If I were to go for this it would be a full gutting of a bungalow. Roof is fine and cavity walls (pumped with loose white bead) are solid. So new windows, doors, plumbing, electrics, floor/wall/attic insulation, etc. Heating at the minute is electric (no central heating) and open fire, so guess I could avail of A2W central heating and stove under this scheme. I'd imagine all other works right down to tiling/painting could benefit from the home renewal incentive.

    Do you have a choice in what suppliers/products are used or are you limited to what they quote. For example, can you use different window suppliers?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭ gooner99
    Registered User


    I emailed them and the replied. Unfortunately they don't have any contractors in my part of the Country, so I don't qualify at the minute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭ Mad Benny
    Registered User


    Anyone know how to apply for this in Dublin. I don't know where to start. It says on the SEAI web site that they are not taking applications directly.

    I live in a detached cold house in Dublin 15. I have the finance in place to carry out the works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭ Mad Benny
    Registered User


    Mad Benny wrote: »
    Anyone know how to apply for this in Dublin. I don't know where to start. It says on the SEAI web site that they are not taking applications directly.

    I live in a detached cold house in Dublin 15. I have the finance in place to carry out the works.

    It appears to be closed fur 2018 already,. They are not accepting new applications :-(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 844 H.E. Pennypacker


    Mad Benny wrote: »
    It appears to be closed fur 2018 already,. They are not accepting new applications :-(

    Is that just the superhomes.ie website?

    I spoke with Churchfield Home Services last week about this - they're still taking applications for 2018. That's not a recommendation for them, just what they told me. It seems that any company can gather a minimum of five candidates and get access to the funding that way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭✭ joej56
    Registered User


    I applied on the super homes website (Tipperary Energy Agency) over 3 weeks ago and have received no reply. I've called and was given the consultant's mobile where I left a voice mail and got no response. I was looking around to find someone else haven't heard of anyone who does the full packaged. I'm in Dublin in a 2 storey house so would be interested to hear if anyone else has done anything like this on a 2 storey house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭ digitaldr
    Registered User


    Is that just the superhomes.ie website?

    I spoke with Churchfield Home Services last week about this - they're still taking applications for 2018. That's not a recommendation for them, just what they told me. It seems that any company can gather a minimum of five candidates and get access to the funding that way.

    Just wondering how you got on with this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 844 H.E. Pennypacker


    digitaldr wrote: »
    Just wondering how you got on with this?

    I decided against it - still considering them for EWI.

    The main reason that I decided against it is that I'd rather pick my own contractor for ventilation, EWI, heating options and do things incrementally so that I can choose an effective heating solution once I've improved insulation and air tightness. That has the bonus of the new grant for a heat pump once the energy requirement of the house has decreased to the required level.

    Moneywise, I haven't yet seen a case study where anyone got a 50% grant. Any I've seen seem to run between 30% to 35% so the difference between doing it in steps with the standard SEAI grants and going for the deep retrofit grant might not be that great.

    There are several companies offering the chance to join their group and get funding so it might be worth talking to a few of them and getting a feel for the way you'd prefer to approach it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭ digitaldr
    Registered User


    Thanks for the reply - lots of food for thought there!
    We're extended a 1930s and won't be living in it during the build so would be anxious to get it finished ASAP so not sure if piecemeal would be the way to go although I take your point about the low chances of getting the max deep retrofit grant. Any idea how they decide the level of grant?

    I'm waiting for Churchfield to get back to me as to their availability. The only other energy agency I could find doing deep retrofit grant work was house2home who are booked up until October! They did raise an interesting point though - they prefer to work as the main contractor where an extension etc is involved. The one time they were subcontractors they said it was a nightmare as lots of problems with the main contractor as to where responsibilities lay at the time of the build never mind down the line. Also said main contractor was not very clued in as to the detailed paperwork that SEAI required.
    Of course most energy agencies are probably not builders too.

    I have emailed SEAI to see if the have a list of approved deep retrofit grant energy agencies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 844 H.E. Pennypacker


    I've read the attached SEAI guideline doc several times and can't figure out how the grant percentage is decided. The max grant is 50% of which 5% can go to the contractor as a project management cost. The contractor can get a 1% bonus is the airtightness test is below 3m3/hr/m2 or lower. There's an additional 2% payable to a professional with BER capability who designs the improvements.

    It is very tempting to get everything in one go if you're not going to be in the house. It'd be worth getting full details of the approach that the contractor is going to take and pushing for the better airtightness figure. The baseline one isn't good enough to ensure that your heating will be efficient. You'd also want to make sure that proper, long term measures are taken - e.g. filling vent holes with expanding foam might get you though the initial airtightness tests and tick the official boxes but its not a good long term fix.

    Deep Retrofit is a great initiative and badly needed. Hopefully the lessons learned from the pilot program will make for a more effective national retrofit.

    The deadline for project completion is October 2018 so house2home might be thinking of 2019 at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭ digitaldr
    Registered User


    Decided to go with good insulation, airtightness and efficient gas boiler - will avail of existing grants. Our architect was dubious about how retrofit installer would interact the with builder. Also we're used to the responsiveness of gas heating.


Advertisement