Implications of Brexit on Infrastructure

Stephen15

So a mod suggested this thread on another thread so here it is.

So what implications do you think brexit will have on infustrusture?

joujoujou

First that came to my mind: additional lanes to perform border controls, as well as variety of buildings for staff doing so.

D Trent

I'm thinking the Govts funding for A5 could be pulled, improvements on N2 and N3 roads will be slow to get off the ground
While the whole N4(sligo bypass etc) and N15 roads will have money thrown at them as this will be the only route in and out of Donegal if and when a hard border will be in place.

Sam Russell

I think there will be implications for Dublin Port and Rosslare and perhaps Waterford and Cork. RoRo service from Ireland direct to Cherbourg could increase significantly - particularly if Dover - Calais becomes jammed with UK traffic blocking customs. TIR might be some help but not likely to be a free pass for Irish trucks. I think the British authorities will not bend over backwards to help EU traffic, either in or out.

I would think, in the face of a hard Brexit, that the EU will have to subsidise the routes from Ireland into Cherbourg.

It helps that the drivers would not be required to travel with the load on the 18 hour crossing. Sean loads at Rosslare, and Pierre unloads at Cherbourg for onward routing, and vice versa on the return run.

cgcsb

The Enterprise train service will cease. It's already impractically long in journey time and cannot get business travellers to Dublin or Belfast before 9am. Add a customs border and the fact that the ROI economy will distance its self more from the UK economy(meaning less travel) plus NI will become much poorer over the coming years. There'll be no A5 built. Road access to Donegal will go via dual carriageway in Sligo.

More importantly will the Irish tax payer be offered a refund for the money they contributed to the A8(M). Given that the business case for contributing the money was to provide haulage access between Donegal and the UK, which now can't happen with a customs border.

Charles Babbage

D Trent wrote: »

I'm thinking the Govts funding for A5 could be pulled, improvements on N2 and N3 roads will be slow to get off the ground
While the whole N4(sligo bypass etc) and N15 roads will have money thrown at them as this will be the only route in and out of Donegal if and when a hard border will be in place.

This seems fanciful, if anything the EU may provide funding for this (or require the UK to do so) as a transit route.

cgcsb wrote:

The Enterprise train service will cease. It's already impractically long in journey time and cannot get business travellers to Dublin or Belfast before 9am. Add a customs border and the fact that the ROI economy will distance its self more from the UK economy(meaning less travel) plus NI will become much poorer over the coming years.

This too seems completely fanciful, this isn't the 1940s. There is a very remote likelihood of customs bothering themselves with what people can carry on a train, especially when you can just drive a truck over the 300 land crossings.

An earlier Enterprise is badly needed though, if only to allow people commute to Dublin!

cgcsb wrote: »

More importantly will the Irish tax payer be offered a refund for the money they contributed to the A8(M). Given that the business case for contributing the money was to provide haulage access between Donegal and the UK, which now can't happen with a customs border.

How much did they contribute to the A8 (which wasn't an M) in fact? Are you expecting all trade to end entirely? What will they eat in England?

cgcsb

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This too seems completely fanciful, this isn't the 1940s. There is a very remote likelihood of customs bothering themselves with what people can carry on a train, especially when you can just drive a truck over the 300 land crossings.

An earlier Enterprise is badly needed though, if only to allow people commute to Dublin!

If customs don't bother themselves with such things then the EU and UK must be pretty satisfied that entrepreneurs taking advantage of price differentials on either side are not a problem. You can fit an awful lot of iPads on a train.

The journey time has also been getting longer and will get longer again when the NTA forces IÉ to implement 10 minute dart frequency.

The line requires massive investment just to remain functional, for which EU structural funds will no longer be available. Nobody is going to pay for that, or the operating subsidy.

Charles Babbage wrote: »

How much did they contribute to the A8 (which wasn't an M) in fact? Are you expecting all trade to end entirely? What will they eat in England?

Trade won't cease entirely, FREE trade will cease, meaning that Irish businesses who were trading for free via Larne were being assisted in doing so by the Irish tax payer. Now they can no longer trade for free using this facility. So the cost of the facility should be refunded, but it probably won't be because Northern Ireland is mollycoddelled by the Republic and the UK, for now at least.

Avada

cgcsb wrote: »

The Enterprise train service will cease. It's already impractically long in journey time and cannot get business travellers to Dublin or Belfast before 9am.

IF border crossings were introduced, it could work, but most likely in the form of non stop (or maybe one stop either side of the border) Connolly to Belfast, with Immigration carried out in stations after arrival.

cgcsb

Avada wrote: »

IF border crossings were introduced, it could work, but most likely in the form of non stop (or maybe one stop either side of the border) Connolly to Belfast, with Immigration carried out in stations after arrival.

Yea that would be possible but neither the UK, Irish of Eu governments are going to pay to maintain the railway which is deteriorating, journey times are already far in excess of the road alternative.

Then you have the economic situation. NI will become poorer than it already is and the Irish and UK economies will drift further apart. In contrast you have the Cork line which is seeing growing business.

Avada

cgcsb wrote: »

Yea that would be possible but neither the UK, Irish of Eu governments are going to pay to maintain the railway which is deteriorating, journey times are already far in excess of the road alternative.

Then you have the economic situation. NI will become poorer than it already is and the Irish and UK economies will drift further apart. In contrast you have the Cork line which is seeing growing business.

Fair point

Banjoxed

cgcsb wrote: »

Yea that would be possible but neither the UK, Irish of Eu governments are going to pay to maintain the railway which is deteriorating, journey times are already far in excess of the road alternative.

Then you have the economic situation. NI will become poorer than it already is and the Irish and UK economies will drift further apart. In contrast you have the Cork line which is seeing growing business.

Current timetable has two hours and five minutes from Connolly to Central. I haven't driven it in a while, but does it take two hours and five minutes on the bus or by car?

Edit: I note that Aircoach is timetabled at two hours and twenty minutes in the small hours of the morning.

I might be old fashioned but Two Hours and Five Minutes doesn't seem to me to be far in excess of Two Hours and Twenty Minutes. I've given the bus the benefit of the doubt here by using the small hours journey time because traffic congestion at both ends adds to the journey time.

cgcsb

Banjoxed wrote: »

Current timetable has two hours and five minutes from Connolly to Central. I haven't driven it in a while, but does it take two hours and five minutes on the bus or by car?

Edit: I note that Aircoach is timetabled at two hours and twenty minutes in the small hours of the morning.

I might be old fashioned but Two Hours and Five Minutes doesn't seem to me to be far in excess of Two Hours and Twenty Minutes. I've given the bus the benefit of the doubt here by using the small hours journey time because traffic congestion at both ends adds to the journey time.

Intercity railways should be way beyond competing with coach operators. Its in competition with people driving cars door to door in circa 100 minutes

Banjoxed

cgcsb wrote: »

Intercity railways should be way beyond competing with coach operators. Its in competition with people driving cars door to door in circa 100 minutes

You've never been stuck on the Northern M1 between Lisburn and Belfast, or between the Port Tunnel and Swords then, I take it?

cgcsb

Banjoxed wrote: »

You've never been stuck on the Northern M1 between Lisburn and Belfast, or between the Port Tunnel and Swords then, I take it?

No but during those times the train doesn't even offer a competing service (I.e. one that gets you to Dublin for the start of the working day) so there is no choice

Bigus

Maybe the EU could invest in a Medium speed Ferry that does 20 knots or 37 Kmh , this combined with a new port in Koréjou near Brest to reduce distance to 420 km to Rosslare ,
Above Combination would reduce Ireland to mainland Europe ferry times to 11.5 hours.

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/repeat-austal-customer-orders-efficient-medium-speed-ferry

[Deleted User]

How hard could a hard Brexit be?
Here's a bit of historical reference to how it was in the late 1950s.

dublinman1990

Cross border bus and rail transport services between NI & The Republic could be set with a lot of difficult challenges in the future when the UK officially goes through Brexit in 2019.

The enterprise rail service will be run into trouble if it finds itself in difficulty in attempting to run an efficient service along with the new DART extension from Drogheda or Balbriggan to Malahide. With a 10 minute DART service being run by IE; demand on an expanded DART service to Drogheda/Balbriggan & Maynooth could grow significantly which is in part due to IE having a much bigger fleet of DART rolling stock available for it's passengers. Imagine if people see the northern commuter line being transformed to to a passenger rail line only just for the DART & The Enterprise & no commuter trains in sight from Howth Junction to Dundalk; the DART service could easily be the more dominant form of rail transport along that line in years to come if you include the DU being included from Drogheda to Hazelhatch & Celbridge. The dominant rail services right now between Malahide & Dundalk is currently the Commuter & The Enterprise. If the proposed rail spur to Dublin Airport by IE was eventually approved by ABP The Enterprise service could in theory could have a new stop at Dublin Airport to make it faster on it's approach to Dublin Connolly.

Although all of the points I made above are all dependent on EU funding being available for an infinite amount of time for both IE & Translink. If the EU structural funds for The Enterprise than it could be a complete disaster for the service under both governments unless a possible proposal came about on a cross border basis to have The Enterprise tendered out to a private operator.

For bus services going between the ROI & NI; it could be a lot more tricky for established companies like Ulsterbus & Bus Eireann. Although; I could need more time to think about what could happen to the cross border bus services at a later date because time for me is going very late right now & I need to be off to bed.

Good night.