Plot holes/annoyances in Season 7 *BOOK READERS* *BOOK SPOILERS*

Paddy Cow

I love Game of Thrones. I had never heard of it until my brother put me onto the first season and I was hooked from the first episode. I went out and bought the books and read them all and felt a little empty inside when I reached the last one. I loved the first three books but everything after that went downhill for me and I found myself reading chapters just to see how it ended. I feel the same about the show. At first it was gripping but then it dipped in quality and this season has been a disappointment. I am still invested in the show and will follow it to the end but this season has left me as frustrated as the last two books. I want to vent about things that annoyed me and what I perceive as plot holes and see what others think. Maybe you'll agree with some of what I say and maybe you can explain some of the plot holes (please do :pac:) but this is what I want to get off my chest:

Annoyances:
1 Book readers who have issues with season 7 are blaming the two writers on the show. They say that because the show has taken over the books, it's their fault the quality has dipped. I disagree. I think Martin did a fantastic job of setting the scene in earlier books but then lost the run of himself and wrote himself into a corner. Even his most ardent fans will admit that he could have done with an editor. There are so many characters and so much is going on at the end of the last book that I can't see how he can finish it in only two more books. I think even Martin knows this which is why "The Winds of Winter" hasn't seen the light of day yet. The pressure is on him and he can't deliver.

2 Waiting so long for season 7 and there were only 7 episodes. Waiting even longer for season 8 and there's even less episodes. I know that this is because of production times but it's still an annoyance :pac:

3 The main characters in season 7 are boring as hell compared to past characters. This season the focus is on Dany and Jon and they are not very interesting. There is no intrigue. In the past we had:

Tywin vs Arya
Tywin vs Tyrion
basically Tywin vs anyone
Olenna vs anyone
Margery vs Joffery & Cersei
Joffrey being a cnut to everyone
The Hound with Arya vs everyone
Jamie and Brienne
Little Finger vs Varys
High Sparrow vs everyone

And that's just to name a few. The vast majority of these characters have been killed off and their lack of presence shows.


Plot Holes
1 For this section I am willing to overlook any teleportation issues. The NK was in Hardhome and only had to make it to Eastwatch but I can accept this as it seems he has some of the same seeing powers Bran has. He deliberately waited with an ice spear until Dany showed up so it will be interesting to find out why he has these powers. He was created by the Children of the Forest and so too was the 3ER(I think).

2 How on earth did Cersei manage to over take High Garden? I get that High Garden were caught off guard but the Lannister army were depleted and relying on High Garden when they tried to take on the High Sparrow. They had no men and no supplies and suddenly they have overtaken High Garden.

3 Dany riding north with her armies. She has unsullied and dothraki but while she has the numbers, her armies are not equipped to fight in the cold. I'm not an army general but even I can see how this will be a problem. Unless Sansa has everyone in the North knitting booties *sarcasm* I don't see how Dany's army is much of an advantage?

4 How is Cersei still sitting on the throne??? After Tommen died she had no claim to the throne. In previous seasons we saw that the King/Queen had to attend counsel meetings and many at those meetings were plotting to overthrow the current ruler. This is where this season falls down for me. We see that Cersei is holding onto power but how? Everytime someone questions her she threatens them with the Mountain and it's beyond lame now.

There's loads others but this is all I can think of for now.

TLDR: what p!ssed you off about the show this season? Vent here :P

Conall Cernach

2. The Tarlys changed sides so maybe some other families did too leaving Highgarden hopelessly outnumbered. Randyll Tarly was also a noted general and along with Jamie it's not very surprising that they could defeat the Tyrells.

3. Presumably the North will provide Winter supplies for the reinforcements. They have been preparing for Winter for years now and have also suffered depopulation due to the wars so there are bound to be extra cloaks and stuff.

4. Cersei has the throne because she had the Lannister army and the Gold Cloaks behind her in King's Landing as well as whatever other nobles, such as Bronn, who would back her for money, land etc.

Daith

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Unless Sansa has everyone in the North knitting booties *sarcasm* I don't see how Dany's army is much of an advantage?

I actually don't think Sansa having people creating clothes would be an issue. I'd say Dany having a "Winter" outfit was more of an issue.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

4 How is Cersei still sitting on the throne??? After Tommen died she had no claim to the throne.

This is completely consistent with the books and isn't a plot hole. One of the themes of the show is that "claims to the thrones" aren't really relevant. It's fading away and being replaced with something else. It's why Dany won't sit on the throne at the end I think. It's why Jon's claim won't be that relevant.

I think people like the world building of GRRM so much. So people spend energy in blood lines and claims. So Robert "had a claim" because he's Targ on some ancestors side. The idea that his claim was a big war hammer doesn't matter so much.

It's like there's some "council" overlooking everything and signing off on claims to the throne.

J. Marston

Paddy Cow wrote: »

3 Dany riding north with her armies. She has unsullied and dothraki but while she has the numbers, her armies are not equipped to fight in the cold. I'm not an army general but even I can see how this will be a problem. Unless Sansa has everyone in the North knitting booties *sarcasm* I don't see how Dany's army is much of an advantage?

She does.

We saw her walking through Winterfell and asking if the armourers are covering the armour in leather for when the real cold comes and then they started doing it.

Pure tashte

Paddy Cow wrote: »

2 How on earth did Cersei manage to over take High Garden? I get that High Garden were caught off guard but the Lannister army were depleted and relying on High Garden when they tried to take on the High Sparrow. They had no men and no supplies and suddenly they have overtaken High Garden.

This was one of the more glaring examples of how having just 7 episodes had a negative impact on the season. The scene between Olenna and Jaime was good, but the dialogue at the start left a lot to be desired and showed how the producers are really looking to rush through things;

"Did we fight well?"
"As well as expected"
"It was never really our forte"

It just seemed as if the Tyrell's were brushed aside just because. They didn't seem to bad at fighting at the Blackwater...

Penn

Pure tashte wrote: »

This was one of the more glaring examples of how having just 7 episodes had a negative impact on the season. The scene between Olenna and Jaime was good, but the dialogue at the start left a lot to be desired and showed how the producers are really looking to rush through things;

"Did we fight well?"
"As well as expected"
"It was never really our forte"

It just seemed as if the Tyrell's were brushed aside just because. They didn't seem to bad at fighting at the Blackwater...

It's consistent with the show though. Many battles were never shown (admittedly likely due to budget more than anything). I don't think we ever saw Robb fight anything other than a tree. The aftermath was shown because the fight wasn't won with swords, but with strategy.

Likewise, we saw a bit of the Unsullied taking Casterly Rock, but very little. The Lannister army took Highgarden not through a fight, but through strategy. It was a complete walkover and showing it would have been nice to see, but not necessary. The fight was already won before swords were drawn.

Pure tashte

Penn wrote: »

It's consistent with the show though. Many battles were never shown (admittedly likely due to budget more than anything). I don't think we ever saw Robb fight anything other than a tree. The aftermath was shown because the fight wasn't won with swords, but with strategy.

It just seemed a bit ham fisted, the Tarly's betraying the Tyrell's to side with the Lannister's was obviously a major factor in the fall of Highgarden, a scene between Olenna and Randal would have been brilliant. Or even have Jaime or Olenna mention it in that scene? But no, feck it sure the Tyrell's were never any good at fighting anyway.

wp_rathead

Shame we never saw Theons reaction to hearing Ramsay died

OneOfThem Stumbled

wp_rathead wrote: »

Shame we never saw Theons reaction to hearing Ramsay died

Or any of the Starks' reaction to finding out that Rickon died (other than Jon, who never subsequently mentioned it).

You can tell that the show writers would have preferred for some characters such as Stannis, Rickon, or the larger retinue of named characters of the Night's Watch to simply not exist, but they couldn't get rid of them until getting beyond the books.

The way in which some characters such as Roose or Barriston Selmy were gotten rid of was out of character, and a real disappointment given how crucial their roles were (and how proficient the actors were!)

Whilst I understand that there are always time restraints, the show seems to spend an inordinate amount of time on nonsensical crap (like Dorne, or zombie kidnapping) or just inconsequential stuff (Sam not becoming a maester, Mormont not having Greyscale, Greyworm not having a dick, the Hound not having a religious community, Arya not being blind).

Every single mention of Greyscale has been anti-plot, because it led nowhere. Greyscale zombies, infection, cure, it could all be binned. It's redundant.

Highgarden falling to the crown was important, but was only considered important in providing an opportunity to have the Queen of Thorns tell Jamie that she killed Joffrey. Everything in the plot is expedient.

Sleepy

My main grievance is the writing / pacing. The show has become a CGI-fest, rush to the final battle rather than the in-depth, character driven look at the world of Westeros the show once was. The running time was slashed at the expense of character interaction and exposition and without any good reason: the bits they left out are the cheapest part of the show to produce.

J. Marston

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Or any of the Starks' reaction to finding out that Rickon died (other than Jon, who never subsequently mentioned it).

You can tell that the show writers would have preferred for some characters such as Stannis, Rickon, or the larger retinue of named characters of the Night's Watch to simply not exist, but they couldn't get rid of them until getting beyond the books.

The way in which some characters such as Roose or Barriston Selmy were gotten rid of was out of character, and a real disappointment given how crucial their roles were (and how proficient the actors were!)

Whilst I understand that there are always time restraints, the show seems to spend an inordinate amount of time on nonsensical crap (like Dorne, or zombie kidnapping) or just inconsequential stuff (Sam not becoming a maester, Mormont not having Greyscale, Greyworm not having a dick, the Hound not having a religious community, Arya not being blind).

Every single mention of Greyscale has been anti-plot, because it led nowhere. Greyscale zombies, infection, cure, it could all be binned. It's redundant.

Highgarden falling to the crown was important, but was only considered important in providing an opportunity to have the Queen of Thorns tell Jamie that she killed Joffrey. Everything in the plot is expedient.

Barristan's actor was one of the few members of the cast who had actually read the books too and was surprised he was being killed off. He even rang the showrunners to double check. I really liked him in the show but not a fan of his book chapters.

TerrorFirmer

Sleepy wrote: »

My main grievance is the writing / pacing. The show has become a CGI-fest, rush to the final battle rather than the in-depth, character driven look at the world of Westeros the show once was. The running time was slashed at the expense of character interaction and exposition and without any good reason: the bits they left out are the cheapest part of the show to produce.

This times 100. I enjoyed season 7 immensely but it's not 'Game of Thrones' - it's so hollow and barely surface deep, and almost nothing within the entire 7 episodes carries any real weight. I'm so disappointed with it.

duploelabs

One of my biggest gripes/letdowns was the promise, before he appeared, that Euron was going to outshine Joeffrey and Ramsey as the biggest c**t in the show so far. Yet was completely unfulfilled. Bring on Robert Carlyle in Begbie mode

wp_rathead

I figured Barristan needed to die so that Dany would need Tyrion to be her Westeros adviser (as with Barristan dead and she had exiled Jorah for the second time, she had no one)
His death could have been done better though I'll agree

Also think Rooses death made sense from a show Narrative, Ramsay would be worried about a legitimate son threatening his claim to be Lord of Winterfell

The Starks not talking/caring about Rickon is a weird one. Like if Ayra only just heard about Jon being KotN she probably didn't know Rickons died in it- so when Sansa says "Brans alive" it would be reasonable for her to then assume Rickon was alive too - a quick line about "oh Bran's alive? Is he with Rickon?" could have made for a touching moment

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BoJack Horseman

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HBO give them 'X' amount of money for the season.
They know that with a lot of CGI/action + higher star salaries the per-episode costs will be higher, so they have to compromise and deliver fewer episodes.

Pure tashte

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

HBO give them 'X' amount of money for the season.
They know that with a lot of CGI/action + higher star salaries the per-episode costs will be higher, so they have to compromise and deliver fewer episodes.

Apparently the actors who play Daenerys, Jaime, Jon, Tyrion and Cersei got a million per episode for S7, where as they had only been getting 300k for previous seasons, so that's a fairly serious increase in salaries there

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Paddy Cow

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I think it's more a time issue, rather than a money one. Filming and post production is taking longer in the later seasons. I read that filming for the "Battle of the Bastards" in last season took a month. The CGI stuffs takes ages to get right. They took longer to produce this series and had less episodes and like other posters, I feel that while parts of it were fantastic, it was still somehow disappointing.

The next season will take even longer and have less episodes. I hope it's worth the wait.

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