The rent goes up again

asgaard

Hi all

Friend of mine got new lease through Post this morning. The agreement itself was dated back to the end of June. His rent went up again. The rent increased last year (june 2016). The landlord stated it's a 4% increase standard. Is it possible year after year increase the rent?

Thanks

jamesthepeach

asgaard wrote: »

Hi all

Friend of mine got new lease through Post this morning. The agreement itself was dated back to the end of June. His rent went up again. The rent increased last year (june 2016). The landlord stated it's a 4% increase standard. Is it possible year after year increase the rent?

Thanks

Yep. Every year nearly garaunteed. If your landlord was nice before and left the rent below market rate he would have been fcuked over by the legislation. Landlords don't want to take any chances of getting left behind and fcuked again so they will increase to the max at every opportunity now.
Thanks Simon Coveny for that one.

asgaard

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Yep. Every year nearly garaunteed. If your landlord was nice before and left the rent below market rate he would have been fcuked over by the legislation. Landlords don't want to take any chances of getting left behind and fcuked again so they will increase to the max at every opportunity now.
Thanks Simon Coveny for that one.

He wasn't informed whatsoever, he got it by Post without further notice.

jamesthepeach

asgaard wrote: »

He wasn't informed whatsoever, he got it by Post without further notice.

Not sure what the structure is for the notification or notice of increase now as I'm out of it, but it will be available online.
I would imagine what he got was notification of a 4% increase to take effect a year after the last one did, but you would need to check it and exact dates and then check the rules against it.

He might as well just assume at this point to that his rent will increase every 12 months by 4%.

But it's entirely possible if you check the legislation that the increase last June locks it for 2 years. As I said I'm out of it so not really inclined to read through it anymore. Look it up.

RobbieTheRobber

asgaard wrote: »

Hi all

Friend of mine got new lease through Post this morning. The agreement itself was dated back to the end of June. His rent went up again. The rent increased last year (june 2016). The landlord stated it's a 4% increase standard. Is it possible year after year increase the rent?

Thanks

Check Citizens information here
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

Depending on the when your friends tenancy started it is possible a rent review may not be allowed for another 12 months (24 months from the time the rent was set). see quoted text below.

In existing tenancies (starting before 24 December 2016) the first rent review in a Rent Pressure Zone may take place a minimum of 24 months after the previous time the rent was set. The maximum rent increase will be 4% (which amounts to 2% per year since the previous rent was set). Subsequent rent reviews may take place after a minimum period of 12 months.

gizmo81

He still has to get 90 days notification of any rent increase.

You cannot back date a notice to increase rent.

Ask the landlord to issue the correct notification including how he calculated the rent. All this information is on the RTB website for the landlord.

https://www.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/sample-notice-of-rent-review

Michael D Not Higgins

asgaard wrote: »

Hi all

Friend of mine got new lease through Post this morning. The agreement itself was dated back to the end of June. His rent went up again. The rent increased last year (june 2016). The landlord stated it's a 4% increase standard. Is it possible year after year increase the rent?

Thanks

If the rent was reviewed in June 2016, the next review can only take place in June 2018 with 90 days notice. After that, the review reverts to yearly.

wordofwarning

asgaard wrote: »

He wasn't informed whatsoever, he got it by Post without further notice.

A landlord is treating his business like a business. Virgin or Eir don't call you up to say expect a letter in 2 weeks telling you we are increasing your phone bill by €5 per month

What difference would have further contact have made? Your friend was getting a rent increase. Did your friend want a phone call to discuss the increase?

gizmo81

wordofwarning wrote: »

A landlord is treating his business like a business. Virgin or Eir don't call you up to say expect a letter in 2 weeks telling you we are increasing your phone bill by €5 per month

What difference would have further contact have made? Your friend was getting a rent increase. Did your friend want a phone call to discuss the increase?

Incorrect. Any change to your price plan breaks the contract with the providers you mentioned.

And if not in contact they have to notify you of the price increase which they always do and it always makes the media too.

irelandrover

gizmo81 wrote: »

Incorrect. Any change to your price plan breaks the contract with the providers you mentioned.

And if not in contact they have to notify you of the price increase which they always do and it always makes the media too.

At the end of your contract Virgin can increase the rates. they will send you a letter informing you of the increase. If you dont agree with the increase then you leave.

it is the exact same situation.

Graham

wordofwarning wrote: »

A landlord is treating his business like a business. Virgin or Eir don't call you up to say expect a letter in 2 weeks telling you we are increasing your phone bill by €5 per month

What difference would have further contact have made? Your friend was getting a rent increase. Did your friend want a phone call to discuss the increase?

The friend is entitled to notice in line with the statutory notice periods. Unless he has also received prior notice I can't think of any circumstance under the RTA where a backdated rent review is appropriate, acceptable or valid.

amcalester

irelandrover wrote: »

At the end of your contract Virgin can increase the rates. they will send you a letter informing you of the increase. If you dont agree with the increase then you leave.

it is the exact same situation.

But they can't send you a letter in September saying the increase is taking effect from June gone past.

irelandrover

amcalester wrote: »

But they can't send you a letter in September saying the increase is taking effect from June gone past.

I never said they could. The post i was replying to also didnt say they could.

amcalester

irelandrover wrote: »

I never said they could. The post i was replying to also didnt say they could.

But that's what the landlord did and in you two jump with your businesses can increase prices comments.

So either you think it's OK for the landlord to backdate the notice, or you misunderstood the OP.

irelandrover

amcalester wrote: »

But that's what the landlord did and in you two jump with your businesses can increase prices comments.

So either you think it's OK for the landlord to backdate the notice, or you misunderstood the OP.

I didnt respond to the OP. I responded to Gizmo.

One thing i'd check is when the letter was actually sent. Maybe it wasnt backdated but there was a delay in the post. Its unlikely and the notice probably isnt valid.

asgaard

irelandrover wrote: »

I didnt respond to the OP. I responded to Gizmo.

One thing i'd check is when the letter was actually sent. Maybe it wasnt backdated but there was a delay in the post. Its unlikely and the notice probably isnt valid.

That has been sent on 31st of August per Post stamp as friend of mine stated.

Browney7

This is a pretty simple one - the friend tells the landlord they believe the review to be invalid and that should be that until June 2018 as many others have alluded to already

Michael D Not Higgins

Browney7 wrote: »

This is a pretty simple one - the friend tells the landlord they believe the review to be invalid and that should be that until June 2018 as many others have alluded to already

Exactly, OP if you have any doubts, use the RPZ calculator on the RTB website. It should come back with an error saying review date must be more than 24 months.

murphaph

I wouldn't be surprised if long term the RPZ 4% increase every year becomes part of the (regional) psyche and even in times of decent supply, rents will just go up 4% anyway as all the landlords will be used to acting in unison, coordinated by legislation.

jamesthepeach

murphaph wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if long term the RPZ 4% increase every year becomes part of the (regional) psyche and even in times of decent supply, rents will just go up 4% anyway as all the landlords will be used to acting in unison, coordinated by legislation.

It will definitely happen each year while supply.is an issue.
And I can't see supply ever not being an issue anymore. Law of unintended consequences had come home to roost.

karenalot

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

If the rent was reviewed in June 2016, the next review can only take place in June 2018 with 90 days notice. After that, the review reverts to yearly.

This is the correct answer. The two year rule was still in place in June 2016 when the rent was last increased so your friends landlord will have to abide by that. New rent cannot be reviewed till 2018.

If they are in a RPZ use the RPZ calculator.

myshirt

We need a guy like this

In the past, Irish people always supported each other around evictions or rent increases, but we don't any more.

dumb_parade

karenalot wrote: »

This is the correct answer. The two year rule was still in place in June 2016 when the rent was last increased so your friends landlord will have to abide by that. New rent cannot be reviewed till 2018.

If they are in a RPZ use the RPZ calculator.

It appears as if the calculator has at least one bug. For tenancies starting before 24th December 2016 it assume a 2% pro-rated rate, even after the initial two year period.

jamesthepeach

dumb_parade wrote: »

It appears as if the calculator has at least one bug. For tenancies starting before 24th December 2016 it assume a 2% pro-rated rate, even after the initial two year period.

Probably not a bug
Just an extra kick in the teeth for landlords.

LuckyLloyd

wordofwarning wrote: »

A landlord is treating his business like a business. Virgin or Eir don't call you up to say expect a letter in 2 weeks telling you we are increasing your phone bill by €5 per month

What difference would have further contact have made? Your friend was getting a rent increase. Did your friend want a phone call to discuss the increase?

Please stop stating incorrect positions with such confidence.

OP: you've received the correct information in this thread. Your friend can go back to the LandLord and inform him of the correct notice process. The rent increase is correct and will stand, but because the LL failed to follow the correct process there will be a delay in it kicking in.

Michael D Not Higgins

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Please stop stating incorrect positions with such confidence.

OP: you've received the correct information in this thread. Your friend can go back to the LandLord and inform him of the correct notice process. The rent increase is correct and will stand, but because the LL failed to follow the correct process there will be a delay in it kicking in.

The notice is not correct and won't stand. The landlord can't increase the rent until next year.

LuckyLloyd

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The notice is not correct and won't stand. The landlord can't increase the rent until next year.

Surely he can correct the notice, and resubmit with the right period of notice? The issue is with the lack of correct notice of increase, not with the legal ability to ask for an increase...

Michael D Not Higgins

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Surely he can correct the notice, and resubmit with the right period of notice? The issue is with the lack of correct notice of increase, not with the legal ability to ask for an increase...

The rent can't be reviewed until June 2018. The notice period is not the thing holding back the increase. The landlord cannot legally increase the rent this year.

LuckyLloyd

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The rent can't be reviewed until June 2018. The notice period is not the thing holding back the increase. The landlord cannot legally increase the rent this year.

Ah yes, cheers - it's the first rent review! Missed that detail from getting hung up on some other posts. Thanks for clarifying

Hollister11

If your in a rent pressure zone, rent can only be increase by 4% a year, for 3 years. This was brought in December 2016.

If your not in a RPZ, as long as it's within market rates, the landlord can charge what they want.

You must get receive proper notice after the required period has elapsed (1 year in RPZ, 2 years elsewhere). The notice is 90 days. Increased rent cannot be charged until the notice has passed.

liger

Hollister11 wrote: »

If your in a rent pressure zone, rent can only be increase by 4% a year, for 3 years. This was brought in December 2016.

If your not in a RPZ, as long as it's within market rates, the landlord can charge what they want.

You must get receive proper notice after the required period has elapsed (1 year in RPZ, 2 years elsewhere). The notice is 90 days. Increased rent cannot be charged until the notice has passed.

With regards to increases in RPZ, I've heard that if LL need to carry out substantial work on the property they can go over the restrictions. But do they still need to wait the 2 years?

For example you rent a property in Jan 17 and in Nov 17 the heating needs a major overhaul/replacement. The lease is up for renewal in Jan 18. Can the LL say, sorry the rent is going up 10% now or do they need to wait until Jan 19 to do it.

Michael D Not Higgins

liger wrote: »

With regards to increases in RPZ, I've heard that if LL need to carry out substantial work on the property they can go over the restrictions. But do they still need to wait the 2 years?

For example you rent a property in Jan 17 and in Nov 17 the heating needs a major overhaul/replacement. The lease is up for renewal in Jan 18. Can the LL say, sorry the rent is going up 10% now or do they need to wait until Jan 19 to do it.

That's into serious grey area speculation on how the legislation is meant to work. OP's question was answered. Thread closed.

The_Conductor

liger wrote: »

With regards to increases in RPZ, I've heard that if LL need to carry out substantial work on the property they can go over the restrictions. But do they still need to wait the 2 years?

For example you rent a property in Jan 17 and in Nov 17 the heating needs a major overhaul/replacement. The lease is up for renewal in Jan 18. Can the LL say, sorry the rent is going up 10% now or do they need to wait until Jan 19 to do it.

In which case you have a leasehold agreement with the landlord- which will normally specify the rent amount at the outset, and the terms under which the rent can be increased. Most landlords use a copy of paste from the Act, and update it as appropriate- however, if you have a lease, as opposed to relying on a Part IV tenancy- you cannot be evicted for the term of the lease- aside from under very specific circumstances- which would normally be spelt out in the lease.

By the way- a new heating system- comes under 'white goods' and is depreciated under the 12.5% rule by Revenue- with an expected lifespan of 10-12 years (written down in the first 8). It would be very difficult for a landlord to argue that it qualified as a substantial work under the Act.

When you have a fixed term lease- from a tenant's perspective- it can only give you additional rights- it cannot detract in any manner from your rights under the Residential Tenancy Act (as amended)- so dig out your lease- and go through it- you may be pleasantly surprised.