How to find a "recent" burial plot?

BottleOfSmoke

I hope this is the right forum for this question, its not genealogy I think...

The father of my relative died in the 1950s. She knows the cemetery, but is unsure of the location of the grave - a number of headstones there are unreadable. She seems to be getting the runaround from the local priest about identifying the correct plot.
The topic came up because I was visiting that graveyard for genealogy research. Some cemeteries have a physical index (take a bow, Mullagh) and some are indexed online, but unfortunately this one will require clerical assistance.
I'd like to help her if I can. Her situation isn't some vague request for ancestors, it's someone looking for a parent. Can anyone suggest the correct approach? I'm quite prepared to approach the Diocesan Office to kick up a fuss, but maybe there's a better way to go about it?
It's a small rural church, I've been into it on a weekday with nobody around. I suspect there may be one or two priests covering several churches in the area. I'm sure they are super busy. Is it actually the local priests who provide this info, or would there be some administrator in the diocesan office who would be a better target?

beechwood55

How would the priest be expected to know who was buried where 70 years ago? Even less some administrator in a diocesan office!

J C

beechwood55 wrote: »

How would the priest be expected to know who was buried where 70 years ago? Even less some administrator in a diocesan office!

Your best bet might be to ask around locally about who might know about the location of the grave. There is usually an old person locally who will know.
The local clergyman may only be in the parish, 'a wet week' ... so they are probably the least likely to know, unless there is an accurate register and plot map of the cemetery.

Does your relative know anybody who attended the funeral of her parent? ... or any other subsequent burials in the family plot? ... they might know the location.

BottleOfSmoke

Hmm. I assumed that churches would be responsible for keeping accurate records of burial plots. But I'm not familiar with church administration, hence my question. It would seem very strange if they didn't, how would exhumation for criminal investigation work, particularly with unmarked graves?

Thanks, JC, for the suggestion of local knowledge. Unfortunately that does not appear to be forthcoming.
Thanks, Beechwood, for making me smile with your astonishment at my question. I didn't think the priest would "know", just that a predecessor would record the details of a burial and send the info to a central location. Seems perfectly reasonable to me, but I'm coming to this with little familiarity.

gooseygander

All graveyards have a graveyard book with details of where and who is in each plot I think. My father in law used to be in charge of the book and for the location of each plot in the cemetery. It listed all available plots and for example what family owned what plot and how many spaces were left in same.I used to be fascinated reading all the old records of the people who have passed on. The log included the age, occupation, cause of death. I used to be shocked by the amount of young children who died during the early 1900's. When he passed on I think the book was handed back to the priest who I presume gave someone else the job. I remember my mother in law was offered to keep doing the job but I think she declined. This was a rural cemetery so I am not sure what the practise was or is in the bigger graveyards.

BottleOfSmoke

gooseygander wrote: »

All graveyards have a graveyard book with details of where and who is in each plot I think. My father in law used to be in charge of the book and for the location of each plot in the cemetery. It listed all available plots and for example what family owned what plot and how many spaces were left in same.I used to be fascinated reading all the old records of the people who have passed on. The log included the age, occupation, cause of death. I used to be shocked by the amount of young children who died during the early 1900's. When he passed on I think the book was handed back to the priest who I presume gave someone else the job. I remember my mother in law was offered to keep doing the job but I think she declined. This was a rural cemetery so I am not sure what the practise was or is in the bigger graveyards.

Wow, that's fascinating as general knowledge. Also helps me with the correct lingo. This is a rural cemetery so maybe same applies, thank you.

Peregrinus

There's no legal obligation to keep records of this kind. The practice of putting up gravestones arose, in part, to mark the location of the grave, since if it wasn't marked the precise location was likely soon to be forgotten. The main responsibility for noting the location of the grave lay with the family, because they were the people most interested in knowing. The parish priest didn't greatly care; why would he? The sexton would be a repository of informal knowledge, of course.

Of course, many parishes did have records, with grave plots numbers on a map, and records kept of which graves were empty and which used, and by whom. You'd need this so that, for example, if Mrs A was to be buried with her husband Mr A who died some years ago, you'd know which grave to open.

Once a churchyard is filled and closed to new burials, the need for records of this kind is less. The location of most graves is known from the headstone; if there's no headstone or the headstone has collapsed or become inevitable, well, that indicates that there's no family visiting the grave or keeping it in order; there's no particular need to keep a permanent record of these. If the churchyard contains unmarked burials from 50, 70, 100 years ago and the location of these is lost, that's not a problem that interferes in practice with the management or running of the churchyard. Any records get consigned to an attic somewhere, and eventually thrown out. Or, at some point they get bundled off with other stuff, and if you're lucky get sent to the diocesan archivist. That's a bit hit-and-miss, but there's no harm in approaching them to ask what they might have.

BottleOfSmoke

Peregrinus wrote: »

There's no legal obligation to keep records of this kind. The practice of putting up gravestones arose, in part, to mark the location of the grave, since if it wasn't marked the precise location was likely soon to be forgotten. The main responsibility for noting the location of the grave lay with the family, because they were the people most interested in knowing. The parish priest didn't greatly care; why would he? The sexton would be a repository of informal knowledge, of course.

Of course, many parishes did have records, with grave plots numbers on a map, and records kept of which graves were empty and which used, and by whom. You'd need this so that, for example, if Mrs A was to be buried with her husband Mr A who died some years ago, you'd know which grave to open.

Once a churchyard is filled and closed to new burials, the need for records of this kind is less. The location of most graves is known from the headstone; if there's no headstone or the headstone has collapsed or become inevitable, well, that indicates that there's no family visiting the grave or keeping it in order; there's no particular need to keep a permanent record of these. If the churchyard contains unmarked burials from 50, 70, 100 years ago and the location of these is lost, that's not a problem that interferes in practice with the management or running of the churchyard. Any records get consigned to an attic somewhere, and eventually thrown out. Or, at some point they get bundled off with other stuff, and if you're lucky get sent to the diocesan archivist. That's a bit hit-and-miss, but there's no harm in approaching them to ask what they might have.

Thanks, Peregrinus, I didn't realize it was so haphazard. Makes me think that the priest may be avoiding telling my relative that the info isn't available. If that's the case, then it needs to be said outright so she can adjust to the situation. I'll try the helpful suggestions on this thread, I may get lucky.